M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

marno21

Geogregor wrote: »

Would you seriously consider commuting around 100km each way every day (I'm assuming you mean from city of Cork to city of Limerick)? That's insane, even with motorway. Not worth the stress, fuel, CO2 emission and time.

Lots of people commute to Dublin from Co. Wexford which isn't much shorter.

With the motorway, it'd be ~1 hour each way, and I don't think CO2 emissions factor that much into the decisions of a commuter.

boardsuser1

Geogregor wrote: »

Would you seriously consider commuting around 100km each way every day (I'm assuming you mean from city of Cork to city of Limerick)? That's insane, even with motorway. Not worth the stress, fuel, CO2 emission and time.

Did it everyday (Monday to Friday) for 3 months.

Calina

Geogregor wrote: »

Would you seriously consider commuting around 100km each way every day (I'm assuming you mean from city of Cork to city of Limerick)? That's insane, even with motorway. Not worth the stress, fuel, CO2 emission and time.

People do that sort of commute already and I suspect a predictable hour 100 km is better than an 8km journey which can vary between 35 minutes and an hour and a half which is what Dublin Bus offers a lot of people travelling in Dublin.

The issue is time elapsing rather than distance travelled. Ime that's the main source of stress. How long and not how far.

Shurwhynot

Geogregor wrote: »

Would you seriously consider commuting around 100km each way every day (I'm assuming you mean from city of Cork to city of Limerick)? That's insane, even with motorway. Not worth the stress, fuel, CO2 emission and time.

I wouldn't find that unusual at all.

100km is very achievable in less that an hour on a motorway. Obviously I would be willing to commute where I'm only happy personally and professionally.

I really don't know what to think of Shane Ross being put in charge of Transport, but I wouldn't be overly confident that he would prioritise anything outside of Dublin. However, Paschal Donohue's comments lately were somewhat encouraging, and even building this motorway in stages would be a great ease to the burden of anyone commuting

xabi

Geogregor wrote: »

Would you seriously consider commuting around 100km each way every day (I'm assuming you mean from city of Cork to city of Limerick)? That's insane, even with motorway. Not worth the stress, fuel, CO2 emission and time.

A 1 hour commute, nothing insane about that.

Chris_5339762

It takes an hour and 15 to get across Dublin without using the M50 so its not outside the realms of sanity.

Irish_rat

Geogregor wrote: »

Would you seriously consider commuting around 100km each way every day That's insane, even with motorway.

It really is crazy but I know alot of people doing it. In Dublin an hour commute is the norm for most people. You hear stories of others having 2-3 hour commutes .:-o

Geogregor

xabi wrote: »

A 1 hour commute, nothing insane about that.

Sure, in a big city where there is often no choice (due to for example to cost of living centrally).
But driving across miles upon miles of empty countryside from one mid sized city to another one is insane in my opinion. Why not move to that other city? Or even to some small town between them, or to the countryside?

Shurwhynot

Geogregor wrote: »

Sure, in a big city where there is often no choice (due to for example to cost of living centrally).
But driving across miles upon miles of empty countryside from one mid sized city to another one is insane in my opinion. Why not move to that other city? Or even to some small town between them, or to the countryside?

For a variety of reasons.

Carawaystick

Geogregor wrote: »

Sure, in a big city where there is often no choice (due to for example to cost of living centrally).
But driving across miles upon miles of empty countryside from one mid sized city to another one is insane in my opinion. Why not move to that other city? Or even to some small town between them, or to the countryside?

You may not be able to move-

• Negative equity in your home preventing a move.
• Children in schools
• A dependant relative where you are.
• Loss of social circle

You may not want to move -

• No job security until made permanent, and even then no guarantee.

Bray Head

I was looking at a map.

There is plenty of spare capacity on the M8 north of Glanmire. It then runs north about 40% of the way to Limerick, albeit well east of the existing M20.

If you want to connect Cork and Limerick cities is it not cheapest to simply to build a spur from just west of Mitchelstown north west to around Croom?

hans aus dtschl

Bray Head wrote: »

I was looking at a map.

There is plenty of spare capacity on the M8 north of Glanmire. It then runs north about 40% of the way to Limerick, albeit well east of the existing M20.

If you want to connect Cork and Limerick cities is it not cheapest to simply to build a spur from just west of Mitchelstown north west to around Croom?

I asked this question myself many many pages back and was told it had been discussed in detail.
To recap the main points:
- Mountains needing tunnels, making it cost prohibitive
- The traffic volumes on the N20 proving M20 necessity are not created by the endpoints, but by the interim users (people coming on at Mallow, Buttevant, Charleville are by far the largest traffic volume using the existing road)
There were other reasons too.

Your suggestion isn't wrong, and a lot of people go that route right now, through the Galtees on small dangerous roads, because it's faster than the N20.

But the long and the short of it is M20 is the correct way to go.

zulutango

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I asked this question myself many many pages back and was told it had been discussed in detail.
To recap the main points:
- Mountains needing tunnels, making it cost prohibitive
- The traffic volumes on the N20 proving M20 necessity are not created by the endpoints, but by the interim users (people coming on at Mallow, Buttevant, Charleville are by far the largest traffic volume using the existing road)
There were other reasons too.

Your suggestion isn't wrong, and a lot of people go that route right now, through the Galtees on small dangerous roads, because it's faster than the N20.

But the long and the short of it is M20 is the correct way to go.

I still don't buy that. The reasons against the alternative route are weak enough when set against the prospect of linking the urban centres of Limerick, Cork, Waterford and the southeast. That would be far more beneficial than just linking Limerick and Cork. We're transfixed on the M20 being the solution simply because most of us are used the the hell that is the N20 and want no more of that, but from a long-term transport planning point of view it's not the right decision, imo.

hans aus dtschl

zulutango wrote: »

I still don't buy that. The reasons against the alternative route are weak enough when set against the prospect of linking the urban centres of Limerick, Cork, Waterford and the southeast. That would be far more beneficial than just linking Limerick and Cork. We're transfixed on the M20 being the solution simply because most of us are used the the hell that is the N20 and want no more of that, but from a long-term transport planning point of view it's not the right decision, imo.

OK.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055372963&page=121

I'm not making any arguments for or against this, just saying we've been here before.

spacetweek

zulutango wrote: »

The reasons against the alternative route are weak enough when set against the prospect of linking the urban centres of Limerick, Cork, Waterford and the southeast.

It's a false economy to build something quick and cheap that tries to achieve many purposes. The right thing to do is build all the parts you need separately.

Bray Head

Thanks. I'm not looking to re-start a debate.

But it's interesting that everyone pretends that motorways are there to link cities with other cities. While in reality they are there to link towns with each other and the nearest city.

marno21

Here's the Feasability Study which explains with data why we will be building an M20 as opposed to a M513.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20/FTG_Pre-feasability-Study/Pre-Feasibility%20Report%20Update%20FINAL%20%2003122008.pdf

Bray Head

marno21 wrote: »

Here's the Feasability Study which explains with data why we will be building an M20 as opposed to a M513.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20/FTG_Pre-feasability-Study/Pre-Feasibility%20Report%20Update%20FINAL%20%2003122008.pdf

Thanks for that. I don't think it really makes a convincing case though. No real comparison of Eastern and Western corridors are made.

spacetweek

Bray Head wrote: »

Thanks. I'm not looking to re-start a debate.

But it's interesting that everyone pretends that motorways are there to link cities with other cities. While in reality they are there to link towns with each other and the nearest city.

The M20 will fulfill many functions: local movements, commuter towns to nearest city, city to city, thru-journeys with destinations in Kerry etc.

Leonard Hofstadter

Hopefully now that the M20 is part of TEN-T that will speed it up. There's more of a chance of it being done now - in fact it might be the only way it will get done at all is because the EU will (eventually) force them to do it. They might even get some EU funding as they have for the M28 and M21/N69.

marno21

captainspeed wrote: »

Hopefully now that the M20 is part of TEN-T that will speed it up. There's more of a chance of it being done now - in fact it might be the only way it will get done at all is because the EU will (eventually) force them to do it. They might even get some EU funding as they have for the M28 and M21/N69.

And the fact that Cork city and county will soon just grind to a halt.

The region will attract zero investment with 1970s infrastructure in the region.

mikeym

marno21 wrote: »

Here's the Feasability Study which explains with data why we will be building an M20 as opposed to a M513.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20/FTG_Pre-feasability-Study/Pre-Feasibility%20Report%20Update%20FINAL%20%2003122008.pdf

But since then we have had the roadworks in Buttevant which caused huge traffic poblems on the N20.

Motorists cant stand the N20 anymore and we need a M20.

AugustusMinimus

Could we set up a separate R513 thread please. It's like groundhog day in here with someone suggesting the alternative motorway every 2 months only to be shown why it's not a good idea.

zulutango

AugustusMinimus wrote:

Could we set up a separate R513 thread please. It's like groundhog day in here with someone suggesting the alternative motorway every 2 months only to be shown why it's not a good idea.

It keeps coming up because the case for building a motorway along the N20 instead of the R513 is weak enough. The strongest argument is that it's at a more advanced stage of planning, but that in itself isn't a great one when you're planning major infrastructure.

KerranJast

zulutango wrote: »

It keeps coming up because the case for building a motorway along the N20 instead of the R513 is weak enough. The strongest argument is that it's at a more advanced stage of planning, but that in itself isn't a great one when you're planning major infrastructure.

The strongest argument is cost:
M20 costs €€€
M20 alternative + Mallow bypass + Mallow-Cork upgrade + Charleville bypass costs €€€€

marno21

MOD: This thread from this moment on is for the advancement of the existing M20 thread along the Patrickswell to Blarney route shadowing the existing N20. All discussion on whether it should be along this corridor, or along the current R513 & M8 corridors is to be kept to this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057600214

This thread is now for discussing of progress on the M20 scheme only, not for discussing the merits of either route.

spacetweek

KerranJast wrote: »

The strongest argument is cost:
M20 costs €€€
M20 alternative + Mallow bypass + Mallow-Cork upgrade + Charleville bypass costs €€€€

Best summary so far.

JCX BXC

marno21 wrote: »

MOD: This thread from this moment on is for the advancement of the existing M20 thread along the Patrickswell to Blarney route shadowing the existing N20. All discussion on whether it should be along this corridor, or along the current R513 & M8 corridors is to be kept to this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057600214

This thread is now for discussing of progress on the M20 scheme only, not for discussing the merits of either route.

Can I just ask, how in the name of god are people going to find this mod warning when we are at eg post 3000?

Should it not be in the OP?

JCX BXC

Deedsie wrote: »

It's in the thread title, post 2338

And how should a poster manage to find this mod warning, as in the example I used, of post 2338? Are they expected to trawl through pages to try find post 2338.

Sam Russell

Carnacalla wrote: »

And how should a poster manage to find this mod warning, as in the example I used, of post 2338? Are they expected to trawl through pages to try find post 2338.

They are in numerical order.