M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

L1011

captainspeed wrote: »

Having the two airports closer to each other (time wise) would create more competition between the airports and that would be good for both economies alike.

Never works like that when the area is only really large enough to support one.

Either you end up with a paucity of routes - only a few destinations and generally served from both airports, like Belfast; or one airport withers and dies very fast, like Glasgow.

They are too far apart to try divide to a low cost and a premium airport concept also.

marno21

zulutango wrote: »

I wouldn't think so. Limerick Chamber is fairly toothless and likes to think of itself as an influential lobby group. It's really not though. They're just making noise.

There may well be solid vested interests in both cities (probably more so in Cork) that want to stall the motorway as long as possible. The all roads lead to Dublin policy works well for them.

This is almost on the level of nonsense as Enda Kenny giving out about motorways because it makes it easier for rural burglars.

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

This is almost on the level of nonsense as Enda Kenny giving out about motorways because it makes it easier for rural burglars.

It's not nonsense. You don't think major infrastructural changes can have consequences for certain players? Of course they do.

spacetweek

Carnacalla wrote: »

Its a fecking Joe.ie article, they are basically the daily mail under a different name.

In fact a new town has been planned at Monard for many years. The original Cork Regional Railway plan included many new stations which were never built - one was Monard.

Calina

zulutango wrote: »

It's not nonsense. You don't think major infrastructural changes can have consequences for certain players? Of course they do.

I seem to recall one of the loudest voices against it here lately was you, no?

However, I come from along the current N20 and I drive most of it still from time to time. No one I know in the area is against it.

zulutango

Calina wrote:

I seem to recall one of the loudest voices against it here lately was you, no?

No, I simply argued that it's not the most sensible route to choose.

That various vested interests may be opposed to a motorway between the second and third largest cities is a separate point.

jd

zulutango wrote:

That various vested interests may be opposed to a motorway between the second and third largest cities is a separate point.

Which vested interests?

Todd Toddington III

jd wrote:

Which vested interests?

Certain convenience shops in every town that will eventually be bypassed probably....Same rubbish was spouted when dublin was linked to the other cities

hans aus dtschl

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Certain convenience shops in every town that will eventually be bypassed probably....Same rubbish was spouted when dublin was linked to the other cities

To be fair, I have never ever heard a local person voice any discontent at the idea of the M20.
The shelving of the M20 had, from what I can see, nothing to do with local people and everything to do with central government. Or more specifically, with lack of funding for infrastructure.

Shurwhynot

Drove this road today - what precisely are they doing between mallow and cork? Are they going to have 2 lanes on each side for the section currently being worked on?

Leonard Hofstadter

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

To be fair, I have never ever heard a local person voice any discontent at the idea of the M20.
The shelving of the M20 had, from what I can see, nothing to do with local people and everything to do with central government. Or more specifically, with lack of funding for infrastructure.

QFT. The only mumblings I ever heard were the locals in Buttevant complaining that there wasn't going to be a junction for the village, but other than that I've never heard of anyone in Cork or Limerick being opposed to the road (other than perhaps some eco-mentalists).

marno21

Shurwhynot wrote: »

Drove this road today - what precisely are they doing between mallow and cork? Are they going to have 2 lanes on each side for the section currently being worked on?

No they are just resurfacing the road and putting the wire barrier back.

And taking 14 months to do it causing substantial disruption.

The money being used to do same could be used to advance planning of the M20 scheme instead of resurfacing a road that's going to be online built upon for the M20.

marno21

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/man-killed-mallow-ambulance-collision/2276110/

Another fatality this morning on the N20 just south of Rathduff.

Brings to 4 the number of people who have died on the road this year.

pajoguy

Was down this way today and was diverted just south of mallow onto a road not remotely fit for purpose. Im sure given the circumstances it was the best they could come up with. Mind you this was 12 hours after the collision.
The M20 needs to be prioritised soon. Its crazy that this road claims so many lives.
God bless those involved in this incident.

Jhcx

pajoguy wrote: »

Was down this way today and was diverted just south of mallow onto a road not remotely fit for purpose. Im sure given the circumstances it was the best they could come up with. Mind you this was 12 hours after the collision.
The M20 needs to be prioritised soon. Its crazy that this road claims so many lives.
God bless those involved in this incident.

Came upon this that morning was redirected down said road. was lucky i already had the Satnav set up , ended up taking a convoy with me as people had already gone down and got lost, Bit stupid on the Guards part not having any signs helping. Met two people who were awfully scared they were lost. Not to mention could have been more crashes on the narrow road.

Mc Love

Just wait until the annual horse fair and motorists will have to face a detour on to a local road at best. It was an absolute disgrace last year with a artic's and buses trying to pass each other on it.

marno21

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/209256/Limerick-councillors-call-for-M20-design.html

Limerick councillors call for M20 design & planning to be completed, and better city access from the M7/N18/M20.

The amount of actual sense in this article is refreshing.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/209256/Limerick-councillors-call-for-M20-design.html

Limerick councillors call for M20 design & planning to be completed, and better city access from the M7/N18/M20.

The amount of actual sense in this article is refreshing.

Common sense is a dangerous thing in the hands of a fool (aka the irish government)

Leonard Hofstadter

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/209256/Limerick-councillors-call-for-M20-design.html

Limerick councillors call for M20 design & planning to be completed, and better city access from the M7/N18/M20.

The amount of actual sense in this article is refreshing.

QFT. It's noteworthy that the motion was originally proposed by Fine Gael councillors. I'm less pessimistic now than I was during the election about the chances of the planning being re-started next year.

ricimaki

One thing that's always baffled me about the Limerick bypass is the junction where the M20 joins onto it. There is no way to get from the M20 northbound or the M7 westbound to Childers road by the Maldron hotel/Aldi. If there was a way to get from that junction to Roxboro road from all three major routes, the city centre would be much more accessible.

The M20 seems to be gaining support from councillors. Hopefully a few TD's will bring it up in the Dáil soon, to really get it started.

Chris_5339762

ricimaki wrote: »

One thing that's always baffled me about the Limerick bypass is the junction where the M20 joins onto it. There is no way to get from the M20 northbound or the M7 westbound to Childers road by the Maldron hotel/Aldi. If there was a way to get from that junction to Roxboro road from all three major routes, the city centre would be much more accessible.

Those movements were deliberately left out because the Childers Road would de facto become the end of the M20 and would be clogged up all the time. It just couldn't cope.

It was controversial, but I think it was a sensible decision.

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Those movements were deliberately left out because the Childers Road would de facto become the end of the M20 and would be clogged up all the time. It just couldn't cope.

It was controversial, but I think it was a sensible decision.

Not when there's freeflow slips to the M7 & N18

At present the traffic which would be going onto the Childers Rd is just adding to existing congestion on the Dock Rd, Ballysimon Rd, Dooradoyle/St Nessans Rd & the Rossbrien/Greenfields Rd.

Mc Love

marno21 wrote: »

Not when there's freeflow slips to the M7 & N18

At present the traffic which would be going onto the Childers Rd is just adding to existing congestion on the Dock Rd, Ballysimon Rd, Dooradoyle/St Nessans Rd & the Rossbrien/Greenfields Rd.

Agreed, it was a ludicrous decision. The junction was working perfectly until they revamped it. Now traffic like you said clogs up the dooradoyle road and rosbrien road as traffic destined for the city centre has to take these routes instead of using an exit at the Maldron

Shurwhynot

This snippet from today's Summer Economic Statement makes for promising reading

"Our public investment rate fell during the crisis years and the Government is conscious of the need to boost the supply of critical infrastructure. The public capital plan1 provides for €42 billion of capital investment over the 2016-2021 period and the Government remains committed to this. In addition, the Government will propose for Oireachtas approval an additional €5.1 billion in capital spending over this period. This ambitious programme of capital spending is aimed at addressing infrastructural bottlenecks, particularly regional infrastructural shortages. Creating deeper infrastructural linkages between the stronger growth hubs and other parts of the country will help to spread growth more evenly and hence address some of the regional imbalances that have emerged in recent years. Achieving a more equal regional distribution of economic activity is at the core of the Programme for a Partnership Government."

Vanquished

Mc Love wrote: »

Agreed, it was a ludicrous decision. The junction was working perfectly until they revamped it. Now traffic like you said clogs up the dooradoyle road and rosbrien road as traffic destined for the city centre has to take these routes instead of using an exit at the Maldron

The Rossbrien interchange didn't exist until 2010. Prior to the construction of the second phase of the Limerick southern ring an at-grade roundabout stood at the junction between what was then the N20 and N7.

Back at the planning stage of LSRR phase 2 Limerick City Councillors and local TD's pandering to residents concerns lobbied the NRA to remove access from the N20 and N7 to the Childers Road. Of course some of the same Councillors then called for access to be restored in recent years seemingly unaware of the consequences of the original cry for closure!:rolleyes:

This link may be restored in the future but it's hardly a pressing objective given that adequate access to the city centre is provided through interchanges at the Dock Road and Ballysimon Road.

marno21

Vanquished wrote: »

The Rossbrien interchange didn't exist until 2010. Prior to the construction of the second phase of the Limerick southern ring an at-grade roundabout stood at the junction between what was then the N20 and N7.

Back at the planning stage of LSRR phase 2 Limerick City Councillors and local TD's pandering to residents concerns lobbied the NRA to remove access from the N20 and N7 to the Childers Road. Of course some of the same Councillors then called for access to be restored in recent years seemingly unaware of the consequences of the original cry for closure!:rolleyes:

This link may be restored in the future but it's hardly a pressing objective given that adequate access to the city centre is provided through interchanges at the Dock Road and Ballysimon Road.

That's a bit wrong. The Dock Rd is jammed daily at peak times and the Ballysimon Rd is only going to get busier with the expansion going on at the Towlerton roundabout.

Cookiemunster

marno21 wrote: »

That's a bit wrong. The Dock Rd is jammed daily at peak times and the Ballysimon Rd is only going to get busier with the expansion going on at the Towlerton roundabout.

Where's that? I've never heard of it and I live near the Ballysimon Rd.

Vanquished

marno21 wrote: »

That's a bit wrong. The Dock Rd is jammed daily at peak times and the Ballysimon Rd is only going to get busier with the expansion going on at the Towlerton roundabout.

City arterial roads are always going to be congested at peak times. It's a predictable result of car dependent commuting. How many access points do you want? Do you believe that dumping more traffic on to unsuitable and underspeced routes like the Childers and Roxborough roads is desirable?

There are big changes afoot in Limerick city centre with a portion of O'Connell Street being pedestrianised along with the further roll-out of bus and cycle lanes. Increased car commuting in to the city centre is certainly not being incentivised.

marno21

Vanquished wrote: »

City arterial roads are always going to be congested at peak times. It's a predictable result of car dependent commuting. How many access points do you want? Do you believe that dumping more traffic on to unsuitable and underspeced routes like the Childers and Roxborough roads is desirable?

There are big changes afoot in Limerick city centre with a portion of O'Connell Street being pedestrianised along with the further roll-out of bus and cycle lanes. Increased car commuting in to the city centre is certainly not being incentivised.

People commuting from the N20/N21 corridor to the Maldron, LEDP park, Galvone Industrial Estate for one.

Access to the Bus Station for buses on the M20 is another.

This traffic is going to be going into the city anyway. The junction setup shouldn't be used as a deterrent against going into the city. The Ballysimon Rd, St Nessans Rd are no more suitable for city centre access than the Roxboro Rd/Childers Rd.

marno21

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Where's that? I've never heard of it and I live near the Ballysimon Rd.

The roundabout by Northern Trust/Conlan's BMW