M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Mc Love

Vanquished wrote: »

City arterial roads are always going to be congested at peak times. It's a predictable result of car dependent commuting. How many access points do you want? Do you believe that dumping more traffic on to unsuitable and underspeced routes like the Childers and Roxborough roads is desirable?

There are big changes afoot in Limerick city centre with a portion of O'Connell Street being pedestrianised along with the further roll-out of bus and cycle lanes. Increased car commuting in to the city centre is certainly not being incentivised.

The traffic has to come by Greenfields road which is like an L road compared to the likes of Childers and Roxboro roads.

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

People commuting from the N20/N21 corridor to the Maldron, LEDP park, Galvone Industrial Estate for one.

Access to the Bus Station for buses on the M20 is another.

This traffic is going to be going into the city anyway. The junction setup shouldn't be used as a deterrent against going into the city. The Ballysimon Rd, St Nessans Rd are no more suitable for city centre access than the Roxboro Rd/Childers Rd.

Maybe people have short memories but before the Limerick Tunnel opened in 2010 the N20/N21 would queue back beyond the Dooradyle Junction from the roundabout. There is a short link back up to Childers Rd with a t junction traffic lights. If the Rossbrien Interchange included a link from N20 or M7 then this would have backed up through the interchange and impacted on the main purpose of the national road network. Yes the councillors and local residents were opposed to the link. But it was never really an option given the predicted traffic issues.

Any ideas to retrofit the junction now is very difficult and costly and will face the same issues as the original design.

marno21

Limerick74 wrote: »

Maybe people have short memories but before the Limerick Tunnel opened in 2010 the N20/N21 would queue back beyond the Dooradyle Junction from the roundabout. There is a short link back up to Childers Rd with a t junction traffic lights. If the Rossbrien Interchange included a link from N20 or M7 then this would have backed up through the interchange and impacted on the main purpose of the national road network. Yes the councillors and local residents were opposed to the link. But it was never really an option given the predicted traffic issues.

Any ideas to retrofit the junction now is very difficult and costly and will face the same issues as the original design.

I'm 20. Whilst I live in Limerick most of the time now, the road network in Limerick is the exact same as when I started driving it. However, it seems to be that certain congestion on the Dock Rd/Ballysimon Rd could be alleviated by opening a slip from the M20 north to the Childers Rd, just an opinion of mine.

Cookiemunster

marno21 wrote: »

I'm 20. Whilst I live in Limerick most of the time now, the road network in Limerick is the exact same as when I started driving it. However, it seems to be that certain congestion on the Dock Rd/Ballysimon Rd could be alleviated by opening a slip from the M20 north to the Childers Rd, just an opinion of mine.

Which means you definitely don't remember the tail backs. The Dock Rd/ Ballysimon Rd run straight into the city and there are no traffic lights anywhere near the junctions, but as Limerick74 said that link road ends at a T junction with traffic lights 500m from the junction. It would lead to a return to traffic queues on the M20.

Shurwhynot

So, do we think the Brexit has dented our hopes of seeing this road being built?

Shane Ross has come out today saying that Ireland is going to be the most adversely affected. Surely this is a bit sensationalist given that no one has a single iota what is going to become of this decision by the Brits

Sam Russell

We might be in line for some extra regional aid or development funding.

spacetweek

In a perfect world we should be investing in infrastructure for the future regardless of Brexit. Agreed about the extra structural funding though.

marno21

Perhaps we should be using budget surpluses to invest in critical, badly needed infrastructure with a very healthy looking CBA rather than Minister Noonan's brilliant innovative plan of hoarding extra cash in the bank?

mikeym

What about private investment?

Most people would pay a toll at this stage.

Sam Russell

mikeym wrote: »

What about private investment?

Most people would pay a toll at this stage.

I would imagine it will be tolled whatever happens.

However, not enough vehicles are prepared to use the Shannon tunnel, or the M6 or the M3, or the Waterford bypass. Consequently, they are a burden on the state.

That is 5 of the 12 tolls in Ireland.

Mc Love

From Brendan Griffins Facebook page:

Chaired my first meeting of the Oireachtas Transport, Tourism & Sport Committee this morning, where Minister Shane Ross appeared before the Committee to discuss Revised Estimates for 2016. Minister Ross was very engaging throughout and most generous with his time.
During the meeting (which lasted over 3 hours!) amongst the items that I raised with the Minister were:
• Need to prioritise building of N22 Cork-Kerry Road
• Need for M20 Cork – Limerick Motorway to be kept on the agenda
• Idea of developing Priority Cycle Routes on quiet local backroads
• The potential of Greenways
• Need to co-ordinate with Dept. of Finance on Increasing Insurance Premiums
• EU efforts on using technology to reduce road accidents
• Idea of a Cattle Underpass Grant Scheme
• Illegal removal of Diesel Particulate Filters from cars
• Need for more Wheelchair Accessible Taxis
• Commitment to keep Malin and Valentia Coast Guard Radio Stations open
• Irish soccer team and supporters performance in France
• The Sports Capital Programme – Need for easier applications, reduction of invalidations, regular opening of programmes, clearance of undrawn allocations and CSSO issues
• Brexit implications for tourism – efforts to encourage holidaying at home
• Importance of 9% VAT for rural counties in particular
• Building on Top Gear exposure
• Wild Atlantic Way as an all year destination – “The Wilder the Better!”
• A follow up to “The Gathering”
• Impact of the scrapped Travel Tax

I’m really looking forward to doing good work in the time ahead on these items and the many other issues that were also raised by fellow Committee members from all sides of the Dáil.

marno21

I would much rather if the emphasis was put on restarting the planning. Sure it would cost x but it's not as if x has to be paid upfront. Get it shovel ready and start it whenever the funding is available.

We have several important schemes (Adare BP, M28, Slane BP) which have funding available after 2018 yet they are still a few years away from being ready to go. The only scheme in the country that it seems is shovel ready is the M7 widening.

Bards

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would imagine it will be tolled whatever happens.

However, not enough vehicles are prepared to use the Shannon tunnel, or the M6 or the M3, or the Waterford bypass. Consequently, they are a burden on the state.

That is 5 of the 12 tolls in Ireland.

How is the Waterford City Bypass a burden on the state?

There is no subvention from the state associated with the underperformance of the Waterford City Bypass.

Shannon Tunnel and M3 are both subsidised by the state should traffic volumes fall below a certain point.

marno21

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/210252/limerick-to-cork-motorway-raised-in.html

This is in the news 2/3 times a week at the minute. There's fierce momentum gathering behind it.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would imagine it will be tolled whatever happens.

However, not enough vehicles are prepared to use the Shannon tunnel, or the M6 or the M3, or the Waterford bypass. Consequently, they are a burden on the state.

That is 5 of the 12 tolls in Ireland.

This road will not be tolled. PPP concessionaires have learned from the other quiet roads around the country, such as the M6 and the Waterford BP that tolling a road like this isn't really an effective way of generating a decent ROI.

D Trent

https://mobile.twitter.com/aaroadwatch/status/748447839232135168

Had to divert off N20 this morning due to collision between a Nissan Micra and a truck of some sort.

All artic lorries simply had to sit and wait for it to be cleared

Leonard Hofstadter

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/210252/limerick-to-cork-motorway-raised-in.html

This is in the news 2/3 times a week at the minute. There's fierce momentum gathering behind it.

Good to see it's still being kept on the table, and that it is still part of the Capital Expenditure review. I'm cautiously optimistic that something will be done about it next year, assuming the minority Government actually gets that far.

marno21

Mc Love wrote: »

From Brendan Griffins Facebook page:

Here is a transcript of said committee:

https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2016-06-29a.223

Mc Love

Looks like they didnt discuss it for very long.

marno21

However, as part of its work on the proposed Mallow Relief Road, Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) is examining whether the Mallow project can be progressed in such a way that it facilitates the development of the N20 in phases. If work on that project and additional studies show that a phased approach is feasible, the N20 upgrade could be considered as part of the planned mid-term review of the Capital Plan. In the meantime, TII is funding a feasibility study on the proposed Mallow Relief Road this year.

Quote from Shane Ross in a written answer yesterday when asked about the M20.

It's a pity these highly paid individuals wouldn't use their brains. If they want to progress why is it still sitting as a mothballed full scheme today, and could they not split the ****ing thing up and advance it in phases if that's what they want to do.

Chris_5339762

Tricky thing is the Mallow bypass part of the M20 is probably the most expensive bit. Theres a big (for Irish standards) viaduct required not unlike the Fermoy bypass.

Todd Toddington III

Chris_5339762 wrote:

Tricky thing is the Mallow bypass part of the M20 is probably the most expensive bit. Theres a big (for Irish standards) viaduct required not unlike the Fermoy bypass.

Build it and toll the bloody road...no ppp, money straight to the exchequer to pay for the viaduct. People will pay. It's absolutely ridiculous that no one will make a decision on this

spacetweek

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Build it and toll the bloody road...no ppp, money straight to the exchequer to pay for the viaduct. People will pay. It's absolutely ridiculous that no one will make a decision on this

I agree about tolling the whole road as a way to get it funded, but do you mean to toll the Mallow bypass? Not sure I agree that tolling the bypass segments is the way to go. I know we've done it before but that doesn't make it right.

Todd Toddington III

Yeah I know what you mean, toll any viable section as a means to funding the viaduct

Edit...clearly didn't read your post properly . Tolling the whole stretch a la french tolled roads would involve graduated payments for different journey lengths. That would work as long as a cumulative payments don't become ridiculous for the full Cork limerick stretch

Leonard Hofstadter

Looks like Lord Ross is going to have the M20 on the agenda when the review of the Capital Expenditure Programme is on the agenda next year (assuming the Government actually gets that far, of course).

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/minister-raises-hope-funding-stalled-cork-limerick-motorway/2480615/

L1011

Sir Winston Churchtown works better than Lord Ross, considering he's now in the lower house. Pity it came from Miriam Lord but still....

marno21

For anyone who missed it, N20 is closed through Buttevant until tomorrow evening to facilitate the Buttevant horse fair. Usual diversion to Doneraile & R581 to Newtwopothouse in place.

Copper_pipe

marno21 wrote: »

For anyone who missed it, N20 is closed through Buttevant until tomorrow evening to facilitate the Buttevant horse fair. Usual diversion to Doneraile & R581 to Newtwopothouse in place.

Hon Cahirmee!!

Come Wednesday morning the place will be left looking like Bangladesh.

Mc Love

Cant believe the authorities still let this go ahead? Why not move it off one of our primary national routes, its a bloody disgrace

Boots234

marno21 wrote: »

For anyone who missed it, N20 is closed through Buttevant until tomorrow evening to facilitate the Buttevant horse fair. Usual diversion to Doneraile & R581 to Newtwopothouse in place.

This is crazy stuff. I came through the village on Sunday and they were setting up all the stalls. This would cause a lot of hassle and delays even if it took place on a secondary route never mind a primary route. I can't imagine that in any other country a part of a road linking the second and third largest cities would be completely closed off for a horse fair! They got the roadworks finished in time for it mind, even though the surface is not exactly the smoothest finish in the world