M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

AugustusMinimus

JCX BXC wrote: »

Where will Waterford have a connection to?

Waterford is already linked by motorway to both Dublin and Kilkenny. Galway and Limerick will be linked by motorway in 2018.

D Trent

JCX BXC wrote: »

Where will Waterford have a connection to?

New Ross city and suburbs.

JCX BXC

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

JCX BXC wrote: »

Where will Waterford have a connection to?

Waterford is already linked by motorway to both Dublin and Kilkenny. Galway and Limerick will be linked by motorway in 2018.

I'm afraid Kilkenny isn't a city.

marno21

KC161 wrote: »

Oh how Enda's comments in February came to haunt him in the election.

And long may they continue to haunt him.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Wow. I hadn't heard those comments by Kenny before.

It shows what he thinks of Cork.

The truth is that Cork has the poorest road connections of any city in Ireland. By 2018, all other cities in Ireland will be connected to at least 2 other cities by motorway. The exception of course is Cork.

Per population, Cork now probably has the poorest transport network in the land.

Sarsfield and Brandon Road Roundabout inprovement was basically lipstick on a pig.

This FG government will not fund the M20. Simply as.

It's a pathetic joke, and voters will continue to vote FG in the next election. Now is the perfect time to have these roads under construction seeing as the economy is growing. Although it was satisfying seeing Buttimer lose his seat in the last election.

Since coming into government, two massive motorway schemes in Wexford and Galway have began, and a scheme in the Dublin-Castlebar route. One of the few national routes in planning at present is the on the N5, a ~35km upgrade. This is after another N5 scheme starts in 2019. Yet there's only place in the "Capital plan" for 2 Cork schemes, once of which affects almost 90k cars a day.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Where will Waterford have a connection to?

Dublin by motorway, and most of the way to Wexford, and Dublin via the N11. Not the fault of the people of Cork your representatives are focused on two full blown motorways from Waterford to Dublin.

The city also has a full DC bypass which is very badly used, something Cork doesn't have, and the Outer Ring Road.

D Trent wrote: »

New Ross city and suburbs.

Exactly.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

And long may they continue to haunt him.



It's a pathetic joke, and voters will continue to vote FG in the next election. Now is the perfect time to have these roads under construction seeing as the economy is growing. Although it was satisfying seeing Buttimer lose his seat in the last election.

Since coming into government, two massive motorway schemes in Wexford and Galway have began, and a scheme in the Dublin-Castlebar route. One of the few national routes in planning at present is the on the N5, a ~35km upgrade. This is after another N5 scheme starts in 2019. Yet there's only place in the "Capital plan" for 2 Cork schemes, once of which affects almost 90k cars a day.



Dublin by motorway, and most of the way to Wexford, and Dublin via the N11. Not the fault of the people of Cork your representatives are focused on two full blown motorways from Waterford to Dublin.

The city also has a full DC bypass which is very badly used, something Cork doesn't have, and the Outer Ring Road.



Exactly.

Definitely!!! He clearly thought the slogan "lets keep the recovery going" was going to work to get FG back in to power with labour. how wrong he was.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

And long may they continue to haunt him.



It's a pathetic joke, and voters will continue to vote FG in the next election. Now is the perfect time to have these roads under construction seeing as the economy is growing. Although it was satisfying seeing Buttimer lose his seat in the last election.

Since coming into government, two massive motorway schemes in Wexford and Galway have began, and a scheme in the Dublin-Castlebar route. One of the few national routes in planning at present is the on the N5, a ~35km upgrade. This is after another N5 scheme starts in 2019. Yet there's only place in the "Capital plan" for 2 Cork schemes, once of which affects almost 90k cars a day.



Dublin by motorway, and most of the way to Wexford, and Dublin via the N11. Not the fault of the people of Cork your representatives are focused on two full blown motorways from Waterford to Dublin.

The city also has a full DC bypass which is very badly used, something Cork doesn't have, and the Outer Ring Road.



Exactly.

Waterford and Limerick have the best road network of any of the "cities", despite their incessant whining about all and sundry. Far better than Cork and Galway in relative terms.

JCX BXC

Just to let ye know, people do base their decisions on political parties on more than if they build a road or not!

If Sinn Fein said they'd build it, I still wouldn't vote for them.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

Just to let ye know, people do base their decisions on political parties on more than if they build a road or not!

If Sinn Fein said they'd build it, I still wouldn't vote for them.

M20 = economic growth = jobs + prosperity

FG are seemingly blind to this. That's clearly proven about DART Underground/Metro North (which you can see discussed in their respective threads)

JCX BXC

I agree but the economy on the country isn't based on one stretch of road.

Travelled the N20 today, it was probably the quickest travel times I've had on the road but it's still a painful stretch and a motorway urgently needs to be built.

But I won't be changing my political views for it.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

M20 = economic growth = jobs + prosperity

FG are seemingly blind to this. That's clearly proven about DART Underground/Metro North (which you can see discussed in their respective threads)

Roads and infrastructure pay off in multiples vs the cost...however most can't see past the next election so much easier blow €220m on welfare bonueses rather than sink that into the M20 and so on. They know the Irish electorate think the same, the welfare means more votes. That's the tragedy of Irish politics, planning for and building up the countries infrastructure is way way down the list of what's popular.
Give you an example, on FB this week a local and desperately needed safety and Road improvement scheme was announced...a fantastic bit of news after countless collisions and several deaths...- the response of the greatest Unwashed was "why are yiz spending all this on a road with all the homeless....". That, tragically would be a common view. No connection made between better infrastructure, good for business, more jobs = less homeless....this is what you're up against here!

marno21

road_high wrote: »

Roads and infrastructure pay off in multiples vs the cost...however most can't see past the next election so much easier blow €220m on welfare bonueses rather than sink that into the M20 and so on. They know the Irish electorate think the same, the welfare means more votes. That's the tragedy of Irish politics, planning for and building up the countries infrastructure is way way down the list of what's popular.
Give you an example, on FB this week a local and desperately needed safety and Road improvement scheme was announced...a fantastic bit of news after countless collisions and several deaths...- the response of the greatest Unwashed was "why are yiz spending all this on a road with all the homeless....". That, tragically would be a common view. No connection made between better infrastructure, good for business, more jobs = less homeless....this is what you're up against here!

They wouldn't be long changing their tune when themselves or a family member is involved in a serious collision with a HGV on a intercity road around 7m wide.

Something that's happening way too often on the N20.

wotswattage

I'm surprised at how little the traffic jams along this road get mentioned on the AA Roadwatch bulletins.. From now on whenever I'm stuck in one I'm gonna contact them, so should everyone else!

I'm not saying this will get the road built but nationwide exposure after every news bulletin can't be a bad thing in terms of highlighting this mess.

Isambard

wotswattage wrote: »

I'm surprised at how little the traffic jams along this road get mentioned on the AA Roadwatch bulletins.. From now on whenever I'm stuck in one I'm gonna contact them, so should everyone else!

I'm not saying this will get the road built but nationwide exposure after every news bulletin can't be a bad thing in terms of highlighting this mess.

that's because the two major projects are finished and also because AA Roadwatch is a chocolate teapot

BelfastVanMan

JCX BXC wrote: »

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

JCX BXC wrote: »

Where will Waterford have a connection to?

Waterford is already linked by motorway to both Dublin and Kilkenny. Galway and Limerick will be linked by motorway in 2018.

I'm afraid Kilkenny isn't a city.

I think you'll find it is. ;-)

marno21

TII has allocated €1m to Limerick City/County Council to get this restarted this year. With a bit of luck this restarting will happen early in the year so a bigger wedge can be allocated next year.

Reputable Rog

marno21 wrote: »

TII has allocated €1m to Limerick City/County Council to get this restarted this year. With a bit of luck this restarting will happen early in the year so a bigger wedge can be allocated next year.

Are Cork County Council not the lead authority on the M20?

marno21

We are starting from scratch remember. Complete blank slate

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

We are starting from scratch remember. Complete blank slate

Was there no planning done before the crash? Why not pick up where they left off?

marno21

road_high wrote: »

Was there no planning done before the crash? Why not pick up where they left off?

According to TII, all the work done before the crash (which cost millions) has to be dumped and we have to begin from scratch with new traffic surveys, environmental audits etc.

Of course, with the trickle of money it'll likely be given, it won't be until 2024 or so that construction begins.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

According to TII, all the work done before the crash (which cost millions) has to be dumped and we have to begin from scratch with new traffic surveys, environmental audits etc.

Of course, with the trickle of money it'll likely be given, it won't be until 2024 or so that construction begins.

Sounds ridiculous to me...we know the road is needed- do we need more cash wasted on surveys to state the obvious?! If only we had political will and competence to slice through this crap...

kub

marno21 wrote: »

According to TII, all the work done before the crash (which cost millions) has to be dumped and we have to begin from scratch with new traffic surveys, environmental audits etc.

Of course, with the trickle of money it'll likely be given, it won't be until 2024 or so that construction begins.

Civil servants and politicians looking after their buddies is the only logic i can see here.
What is the bloody difference, there was always going to be a Motorway, there will be a Motorway ( well i suppose before we have flying cars anyway ).

AugustusMinimus

FG have to take 100% of the blame here.

Is there European legislation stating that everything has to be completely restarted from scratch?

spacetweek

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

FG have to take 100% of the blame here.

Is there European legislation stating that everything has to be completely restarted from scratch?

As legislation covering community consultation, environmental regs etc. changes, sometimes you have to go back over and redo old work. Putting an infrastructure project on hold puts you in jeopardy of this.

Middle Man

spacetweek wrote: »

As legislation covering community consultation, environmental regs etc. changes, sometimes you have to go back over and redo old work. Putting an infrastructure project on hold puts you in jeopardy of this.

I don't think there should be any need for a feasibility study - it's obvious that if Limerick and Galway should be linked up by motorway, then Limerick and Cork should be likewise - especially given the traffic levels on the existing N20. The laws need to be changed in order to allow the use of plain common sense thereby eliminating unnecessary red tape regarding infrastructural provision. However, an Environmental Impact Study would need to be done from scratch as knowledge regarding environmental awareness is developing more rapidly these days - take for example the case for eco bridges to counteract the problem of ground level severance that many forms of wildlife suffer - we have now started to do this to a limited extent on the new M18 motorway at Coole Demesne.

marno21

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/cork-limerick-motorway-vital-sustaining-employment-says-mayor/2602636/

Massive U turn from Buttimer after spending last month giving out about the M28 he's now in favour of the M20.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/cork-limerick-motorway-vital-sustaining-employment-says-mayor/2602636/

Massive U turn from Buttimer after spending last month giving out about the M28 he's now in favour of the M20.

Must be an election coming down the line.

neddynasty

If the project hadn't been scrapped in 2011 and money hadn't been a huge issue, can anyone make an informed guess as to where we'd be right now with the M20? Would we have some sections open 6 years down the line?

Reputable Rog

Its hard to know, because the Adare Bypass was refused planning shortly before the M20 was scrapped and that in turn had major repercussions for the Northern Leg.
Its conceivable that proper dual carriageway would be in place as far as Burnfort now if the scheme hadn't been cancelled.

boardsuser1

Just came out on the radio that there's a crash around Charleville, I don't even blink when I hear of crashes on that road anymore.

boardsuser1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/here-are-the-road-projects-to-benefit-from-the-324m-in-govt-grants-this-year-773853.html

says it all really