Match Thread: Liverpool V Manchester United [All Pre/During/Post Match Discussion]

PiE

PHB wrote: »

Liverpool are always the 'better' team, and 'deserve' the win. But it never occurs. Keane/Kuyt/Cisse/Morientes always miss a sitter.

Utd's luck had to run out eventually.

Delighted with the win, the performance & the tactics and the fact that we won without Gerrard (for the most part) and Torres.

Where's the media bandwagon now to praise Rafa's decisions in "rotating" Torres & Gerrard? To slate Fergie for playing Rooney out of position?

ibh

Just read on BBC that Fergie was complaining about Vidic's red card. FFS he should have been sent off for the first tackle. And before anyone say Ferdinand was covering he wasn't. He was trying to get back, but when the tackle was made he was not in a covering position, therefore Vidic was last man.
Then Vidic emtries Alonso out without even going for the ball. How the fcuk can he complain about that. Then to say that Carragher got away with that sort of thing all game. Bullshit. Carragher actually got pulled for frees a few times when i thought they were 50-50.

Thought Ferguson was being gracious, but then he starting talking rubbish.

Orizio

Got to love how Ferguson said he didn't see the Vidic incident, and then starts bitching about it anyway. Embarassing really.

carlop

Really disappointing, especially after the great start we had. I really think that for away games against the top 4 hargreaves has to start. He gives a solidity in midfield that Carrick and Scholes don't, and with Mascherano in that kind of form and Scholes having an off day, we were totally overran in midfield.

I'm also surprised Ferguson didn't switch Rooney and Tevez at any point for an extended period. I didn't see the England game midweek but apparently Rooney looked good up front, and it wouldn't have done any harm to try him up there for 20 minutes or so.

Finally credit to liverpool, they fully deserved to win, though I can't help but think if it wasn't for 2 terrible errors we could have stolen another undeserved victory at Anfield John O'Shea-style.

Handsome Bob

Fantastic result, special props go out to Aurelio and Riera, great performances by both. I thought Aurelio's delivery was second to none and Riera showed lovely silky skills.

What is absolutely vital is that we push on, Stoke at home should be a 3 points guarenteed and every player should maintain their high levels of performance.

p.s. Got the wincast with Babel anytime and Liverpool win with PP.:D

Mr.Nice Guy

Can't have any complaints as a United fan. I thought Liverpool were the better team in the second half and were worthy of the result.

monkey9

Jazzy wrote: »

wheres that nani vs. babel thread again? ^^

It's funny how Boards intrudes on your everyday life and thinking. I was thinking about that thread when Babel came on alright. He played well, but Nani was anonymous.

monkey9

I have to say, a lot of threads on this forum descend into farce and ridiculousness, but this thread has been actually impressive as football is being discussed. Fair play to the Utd fans for admitting the best team won. It's like the fixture at Old Trafford last season, you just can't argue with it. Sometimes you get people come in talking sh1te or trolling, but it's actually being a good thread.
PHB, i don't get your points. You say it's the same as the last two seasons. Well, i don't agree with last season as i was disappointed with our performance, but certainly the year before when O' Shea scored was a joke and smash & grab. But so what?? Utd didn't deserve that win, but got it! But that can't go on forever and today your luck ran out! The best team won and yes, the goals were avoidable, but goals change games. I think Utd could have got a second if we hadn't have equalised.
Utd started well and for the first twenty minutes looked comfortable and confident. But the equaliser changed everything and bar Tevez's chance in front of the Kop when he hit it over the bar and a few other hairy incidents, from the moment we scored, we were the better team.
It's the first time this season that we have played well. It's encouraging that even though our performances have been awful before today, we've still been picking up points and in fact, have only dropped two. That's a big improvement on last season. People have being saying that if we keep playing the way we have been playing our 'luck' will eventually run out, but we were never going to keep playing that way and in fact, i thought that the Utd game at Anfield was probably the best fixture to have in terms of getting a performance out of us.
I though Riera had a positive debut today and Keane played well. Some people are giving him stick, but i have no doubts or worries about him.
It's a solid start to the season. Hopefully we now have the players to turn the frustrating draws from last season into victories and keep a similar record of only having lost four league games.

Karmafaerie

I was just about to say the same thing myself Monkey.
Us Liverpool and Utd fans have a reputation for turning everything into a Pool vs Utd slaging match.
Good to see it's not always rose tinted glasses.

Next time it's brought up, I'll direct them to this thread.

Good match.
Can't wait for the return fixture.

gucci

Orizio wrote: »

Got to love how Ferguson said he didn't see the Vidic incident, and then starts bitching about it anyway. Embarassing really.

Classic....United have a boost of sort for next week with Terry getting sent off today, although if they didnt threaten the Liverpool defence too much today, then Chelsea mightnt have many problems. But utd will have a week to prepare and a good bollicking from fergie to keep them on their toes.

mike65

Vidic will miss that game too, no? An equal loss in my book.

Mike

Karmafaerie

Yup, no Banana Boots, or Metalic Serbian Rapist!

Unearthly

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I was just about to say the same thing myself Monkey.
Us Liverpool and Utd fans have a reputation for turning everything into a Pool vs Utd slaging match.
Good to see it's not always rose tinted glasses.

Next time it's brought up, I'll direct them to this thread.

Good match.
Can't wait for the return fixture.

Can't you just feel the love in this topic :pac:

Karmafaerie

Unearthly wrote: »

Can't you just feel the love in this topic :pac:

Group hug?!:p

Nalz

Yeah it is good to see, although it cannot be argued with tbh. After 25mins it was all Liverpool posession, and United never really threatened after that. Best team.

Well done to everyone on this thread...except for the people who use words like "rapist" out of context.

Mr Alan

Trilla wrote: »

Well done to everyone on this thread...except for the people who use words like "rapist" out of context.

Trilla, that was a joke, there was an article a while ago that refered to Vidic as a metallic serbian rapist, it was due to some issue with google translator....it was joked about in the Utd thread at the time.

as for the game. great stuff. we outplayed Utd again. and got wat we deserved. time to move onwards and upwards.

special mention for Riera, great debut, looked really excellent. also, wat a buy Skrtel has been for us.

Keane was very good too, despite Xavis earlier statement to the contrary. Goals will come for him, as long as he performs like today, he'll be very much appreciated at Anfield.

Wat a result, and without Torres and Gerrard (for the main)....anyway, most important thing is to win at Stoke next week and keep attempting to pull away.

Mr Alan

herbieflowers wrote: »

I think the hype was justified tbf, he played Fabregas and Gerrard off the park last season.

when did he play Gerrard off the park? this is said often, but i dont remember the game.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

Trilla, that was a joke, there was an article a while ago that refered to Vidic as a metallic serbian rapist, it was due to some issue with google translator....it was joked about in the Utd thread at the time.

Ok, but still I hate that word being used out of context. Don't wont to go anything deeper then that but just hate it fullstop. Oh and congrats MrAlan on your lots win today

Mr Alan

thanks, thought we were gonna get stuffed for the first 5 mins.....Alonso and Masch did us proud today....Gareth who?

HashSlinging

CaNt BeLieve how well UTD played and the pool still won... nuts

LuckyLloyd

Not going to gloat. Things are different for us so far this season. We've had three games against non - relevant teams where we were sluggish and deserved to lose or draw yet somehow pulled out seven from nine. Where we probably would have had only two or three points if it was last year - and definitely didn't deserve a whole lot more.

And today we worked extremely hard; competed fiercely; and were crisp and inventive in midfield just like we had managed against Utd at Anfield in previous seasons. Yet today the key bounces went our way and we won. Deservedly so.

I think I understand what PHB is trying to say. Football analysis tends to be hugely results based when good analytical reviews of any subject should focus on the process and the decisions that create the end product rather than the end product itself. I'm sure PHB is also smart enough to realize some of the ultimate conclusions concerning his club that such a line of thought can reach:

- that Utd have often been lucky against Liverpool over the past few years;
- that Utd where essentially a dead heat against Chelsea last year;
- that if footballing variance evens out in the long term the prognosis for Utd for this season could be less than excellent;

But anyway...

A much simpler way of putting it is that we were towards our best and Utd were towards their worst and we still required two gifts to get over the line. I'll take it though. :pac:

---

Riera had a good debut imo. Our shape was better and we seemed to be able to move the ball forward with more zip than any other game so far this season. How much of this was down to him just being a natural wide player remains to be seen.

Alonso gave his best performance in a long, long time. He tackled and harried well - and passed the ball much better. Need more games from him like this.

Masch and the defense were good as per usual.

Ye can all say what you like about Keane and Kuyt. But they always give 100% and work their socks off. Jesus Robbie is trying so ****ing hard. He wants this to work so much. One goal off a knee, a shin or his ****ing arse and he will be able to relax and feel confident. Their failings and mistakes have NOTHING to do with a lack of effort. And the good stuff their endeavor brings was vital today - as we needed their doggedness to keep Utd unsettled and off key.

We're in great shape thus far. But there is a looooooooooong way to go. Chelsea went to Eastlands today and ****ed them up despite conceding a rabble rousing goal early on. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We need to perform like we did in the second half today game after game after game and we could do better than last year.

Following the Villa game, Rafa wasn't as much of an idiot as he was made out to be in some quarters - much as the squad wasn't completely hapless and doomed. And it works the other way today: Rafa isn't suddenly a genius and we can't consider ourselves champions elect.

I can admit it feels good though!!

Karmafaerie

Trilla wrote: »

Yeah it is good to see, although it cannot be argued with tbh. After 25mins it was all Liverpool posession, and United never really threatened after that. Best team.

Well done to everyone on this thread...except for the people who use words like "rapist" out of context.

Dude, as Alan said, I'm just taking it from the article posted in here a few weeks back.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055356065

I'm hardly justifying the word rape or anything.

Although words are just words, and context is everthing.

I mean, calling Ferdinand a Duran Duran song would hardly be a mortal sin or anything!

gixerfixer

Orizio wrote: »

Got to love how Ferguson said he didn't see the Vidic incident, and then starts bitching about it anyway. Embarassing really.[/quote

It is actually embarassing when you think about it. Even when he tells it like it is (they got played off the pitch) he throws in a dig at Jamie.

Handsome Bob

Jesus, I've put myself through an hour and a half of Sunday Supplement and they didn't even discuss the match.:rolleyes:

gixerfixer

Pool where excellent yesterday. Rafa outwitted Fergie AND got a slice of luck which we have been missing over the last few games against them. To the people who seem to be saying United played at their worst yesterday and Liverpool where at their best and we still won it only with a couple of jammy goals i'll say this..why do you think Man U played so bad yesterday?..because Liverpool made then play that way. Usually Man U go out and are up for the game more than the other team and thus steamroll your Wigan's,Newcastles's,Fulham's etc...yesterday Liverpool just didnt let them get into their stride and refused to give up on anything,Keane chased down everything for example but he's only one of many who did the same job. So yes United where poor but there is a reason for that.

gixerfixer

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Jesus, I've put myself through an hour and a half of Sunday Supplement and they didn't even discuss the match.:rolleyes:

Maybe because we won it;)

PHB

I think I understand what PHB is trying to say. Football analysis tends to be hugely results based when good analytical reviews of any subject should focus on the process and the decisions that create the end product rather than the end product itself. I'm sure PHB is also smart enough to realize some of the ultimate conclusions concerning his club that such a line of thought can reach:

- that Utd have often been lucky against Liverpool over the past few years;
- that Utd where essentially a dead heat against Chelsea last year;
- that if footballing variance evens out in the long term the prognosis for Utd for this season could be less than excellent;

Those things are true. Except its not 'luck', its a tactic.
Its how United play away against big teams. We go there, play football for three minutes in the entire game, then defend solidly for the game and it seems to work out. Its a tactic Fergie used last season to great success, but I hate it. What's more, it means that if it doesn't work, the team can't come back from behind, because their mindset is so negative.

The reason I was pointing it out, is because as you have seen, we've already had people making these sorts of statements.
Berbatov and Rooney and Tevez can't play together.
Anderson is horribly over-rated. [p.s. I may be wrong, but wasn't Anderson the one who created the United goal? Overall he was poor, but so was everyone else, and he had one great moment. Didn't he also set up Tevez for a sitter in the first half when he passed a lovely ball across the goal. He was Uniteds best midfielder yesterday, I don't think that can be denied]
United's defence looks weaker.

My point is simply, this is how United played against Liverpool in the last 3 years. The games imo were pretty much identical. In those 2 years previous, United defended well and won 1-0. This year, it didn't work out. However the way we play ensures that its a very very tight rope we walk, and if we go behind, theres little we can do about it.

Which is why the difference this year was two mistakes. That can change the course of the entire season [indeed United were literally one mistake better than Chelsea, literally]. But its silly to read too much into Uniteds link up etc. That will only be seen over time.

Nalz

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I'm hardly justifying the word rape or anything.

Yeah I know I take that back, just bugs me thats all,especially "touch of a rapist" comment. I should get over it, I know nothing was meant by it. Apols.

Ruskie4Rent

PHB wrote: »

United's defence looks weaker.

.

I agree. I noticed that they usually look less solid in games where Van de Sar is making mistakes. It must be a confidence thing i think.

Fair play to 'pool they took advantage, and can't say they didn't deserve the win.

One thing though, whats with random fans giving me stick on the street? I knew it was a bad idea to wear my jersey out, but i didn't expect that much grief. Please say united fans don't do that when we win.

Nalz

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

One thing though, whats with random fans giving me stick on the street? I knew it was a bad idea to wear my jersey out, but i didn't expect that much grief. Please say united fans don't do that when we win.

Not as much no I'll be honest... but it does happen on ocassions. Its been a while for the Pool fans, and they deserved it without playing their two better players, all part of the fun as long as its not ott.

Its the people that text me yday giving me stick, an Arsenal fan (one of those part time ones that doesnt fully know their team and had periods in their life when they didnt really watch soccer that much, and would get offended if ya told them that, and would throw back the "you think you know more than me about soccer" etc comments) and someone who doesnt even follow a soccer team. i never text other people when their team get beaten by another team. That p!ssed me off rightly. They tried to piss me off and succeeded. Same lads that give me stick for going to Eircom league games too....

Dave!

Get over it lads, it's just a bit of banter. I just remind them that victories taste all the more sweet when they're as rare as they are for the Pool Give a starving man a cracker........ etc......

Is everyone here in agreement that VDS needs to be phased out sooner rather than later? Where the f*ck is Ben Foster? Is he still playing in the reserves? Injured? Kidnapped???

Mr Alan

this made me chuckle this morning......



and Trilla-Utd fans give out plently of stick when they win too. dont kid yourself otherwise

LuckyLloyd

PHB wrote: »

Those things are true. Except its not 'luck', its a tactic.
Its how United play away against big teams. We go there, play football for three minutes in the entire game, then defend solidly for the game and it seems to work out. Its a tactic Fergie used last season to great success, but I hate it. What's more, it means that if it doesn't work, the team can't come back from behind, because their mindset is so negative.

The reason I was pointing it out, is because as you have seen, we've already had people making these sorts of statements.
Berbatov and Rooney and Tevez can't play together.
Anderson is horribly over-rated. [p.s. I may be wrong, but wasn't Anderson the one who created the United goal? Overall he was poor, but so was everyone else, and he had one great moment. Didn't he also set up Tevez for a sitter in the first half when he passed a lovely ball across the goal. He was Uniteds best midfielder yesterday, I don't think that can be denied]
United's defence looks weaker.

My point is simply, this is how United played against Liverpool in the last 3 years. The games imo were pretty much identical. In those 2 years previous, United defended well and won 1-0. This year, it didn't work out. However the way we play ensures that its a very very tight rope we walk, and if we go behind, theres little we can do about it.

Which is why the difference this year was two mistakes. That can change the course of the entire season [indeed United were literally one mistake better than Chelsea, literally]. But its silly to read too much into Uniteds link up etc. That will only be seen over time.

Ok, I think luck was a bad word to use. Instead I would contend argue the reality is that your edge against decent teams when playing away from home is minute. While you have defended well and smashed and grabbed competently in key ties over the past couple of seasons, the fact of the matter is that teams have still created good chances against you that they failed to take. Chances that they will take a certain percentage of over the course of a season. As such, the more games away from home you play using those tactics - the more likely you are to start losing a few.

And yes, I agree an awful lot with your last paragraph. It is easy to overestimate the importance of one game and draw season defining conclusions from it. But this is zero points where there were three last season. Assuming Chelsea don't drop their level much such things could end up meaning an awful lot at season's end.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

and Trilla-Utd fans give out plently of stick when they win too. dont kid yourself otherwise

Yeah but they got bored of it! Hence why the Pool fans go over the top cas it doesnt happen often, after all...United fans celebrate bigtime when winning the Premiership, Pool fans yet to experience that so ya cant blame them.

Mr Alan

we've had plenty to celebrate over the last few years, some of the greatest wins ever spring to mind.

The Rooster

Smegball wrote: »

I've a really weird feeling Van Der Sar will make a major cock up today! Don't ask why!

Nice!

Karmafaerie

All football fans will take the mick.
It's part and parcel I suppose.

I got a bit of abuse from UTD fans when walking home from work yesterday.
Wearing a Pool jersey, when some UTD fan shouted abuse out the window of a car as it drove past.
Every team has it really.

Some guy in a pub last night started slagging my friend off for wearing a UTD jersey.
A bit stupid really, but it's grand as long as it's in good form.

The Rooster

Mascho and Alonso immense. There can be no question that Liverpool are stronger when those two are the central midfield partnership.

Probably Arbeloa's and Skrtel's best Premiership performances. Nice time to do it. Skrtel looks like he could be as good as Vidic (though of course has to prove it over the course of a season).

Handsome Bob

Question for everyone: What did you all make of Aurelio's performance?

A was a bit taken a back when I read Aldridges assessment of his performance, he completely dismissed him. I thought Aurelio's delivery of the ball was great from crosses/ corners and he was good going forward.

Any other thoughts?

Mr Alan

I think both Aurelio and Arbeloa were excellent yesterday.

Anyone else notice some peoples absence from this thread since the game yesterday? says a lot imo.

noodler

I didn't think either were 'great'. Arbeloa's crossing remains atrocious and Aurelio was certainly the better of the two for me. Fabio really got forward well yesterday.

Vokes

Aurelio did pretty well and did everything that was required of him. Wasn't really tested by a top-notch right winger (Rooney out-of position) tho.

Did Aldridge say he played poorly?

Mr Alan

i actually thought that Arbeloa was the one who shone more when it came to going forward. Riera was staying wide on the left, so there wasnt any really need to overlap him whereas Yossi kept cutting inside which left a lot of space for Arbeloa to exploit which he did well

Handsome Bob

SofaK wrote: »

Aurelio did pretty well and did everything that was required of him. Wasn't really tested by a top-notch right winger (Rooney out-of position) tho.

Did Aldridge say he played poorly?

He basically said Liverpool won with "9 men" because Gerrard and Torres weren't in the starting line up, and that Benayoun and Aurelio were the "weak links".

Karmafaerie

Fab and Al did great IMO.
Aurelio could have a decent season if he stays fit.

PHB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As such, the more games away from home you play using those tactics - the more likely you are to start losing a few.

Which is what pisses me off so much. If we were going up against a full strength Liverpool fine, but a weakened team were ripe for being ripped apart. If we were at home it would have been all guns blazing. Fergie's defensive desires screw him over again.

Mr Alan

i wouldnt have thought that a defensive team that lined up yesterday PHB? Tevez,Berba,Rooney?starting with Carrick ahead of the more defensive Hargreaves?

herbieflowers

I can understand what you're saying, PHB but to be frank, Liverpool didn't allow United to play at all once the equlaiser went in.

zAbbo

I thought Hargeaves-Anderson-Carrick would have been a better balance, but not sure if Hargreaves was fully fit - I see the choice between Anderson or Scholes, but not both in a 3 man midfield.

United really are weak in midfield, great defence and attack, but I think Fergusan got the formation and players wrong.

The win was good, and long overdue, I'd like Rafa to keep the 4-4-2 formation and use Kuyt up front, and SG in centre mid.

Mr Alan

who would you drop Zabbo? Keane and Alonso/Mascherano?????