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Match Thread: Liverpool V Manchester United [All Pre/During/Post Match Discussion]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭Pyjamarama


    Didnt Maradona play for Napoli for a while? Stupid argument tbh.

    Neither Reina nor VDS are world beaters.

    Yeah and they won the league...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Pyjamarama wrote: »
    Well imo James, Green, Reina, Cech, Friedel and Howard are all better than VDS...

    He's dodgy, he was dodgy last season aswell. You have to also take into consideration he has probably got the best defence in Europe in front of him. It's not like he has a lot to do most of the time.

    Did you see Howard play yesterday?

    Reina and Cech on corners last year?

    Friedel I think is top class.

    James - Jesus, you do know his nickname don't you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Karmafaerie


    Boggles wrote: »
    I think what you actually did was realise you were talking nonsense and then decided to talk jibberish to deflect from the fact you were talking nonsense. ;)

    No Boogles.

    It's just that unlike most people here, your usual tactic of making stupid baseless statments, and ignoring all counterpoints, untill you make them so mad that they walk away, and you get to pretend that you won the argument wont work with me.

    You're flapping around amuses me too much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,909 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Pyjamarama wrote: »
    Well imo James, Green, Reina, Cech, Friedel and Howard are all better than VDS...

    You forgot Given


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,910 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Didnt Maradona play for Napoli for a while? Stupid argument tbh.

    Neither Reina nor VDS are world beaters.

    But Napoli were the best team in Italy at the time and one of the best in Europe. Hardly Fulham.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    No Boogles.

    It's just that unlike most people here, your usual tactic of making stupid baseless statments, and ignoring all counterpoints, untill you make them so mad that they walk away, and you get to pretend that you won the argument wont work with me.

    You're flapping around amuses me too much.

    Karmafaerie, I'll ignore your summise of my writing style.

    But I will point out you tried to convince me that Voronin was a top class central midfielder, and just yesterday you were fibbing about Babel. - Just in the sense of fairness. People are entitled to their opinion, some are just fúckíng plain crazy thou. ;)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Pyjamarama wrote: »
    Well imo James, Green, Reina, Cech, Friedel and Howard are all better than VDS...

    He's dodgy, he was dodgy last season aswell. You have to also take into consideration he has probably got the best defence in Europe in front of him. It's not like he has a lot to do most of the time.

    Cech is better than him. Reina can be just as dodgy as can Calamity James, as can Green (who definitely has potential to be better than him)...............
    Friedel and Howard? Okay sorry but now Im gonna take no notice of what you say cos you clearly allow bias to distort your views.


    When have Howard or Freidel ever played in Europs and Englands lowest conceding team may I ask?




    And maradona winning the league with Napoli, goalkeepers alone dont win you leagues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Boggles wrote: »
    Examples???

    And to be fair compare him to who you consider the top goalkeepers in the league, all players can be picked apart.

    not really a debate i want to get into. i would rate Cech, Reina, Cudicini, Given, Green and Friedel as better goalkeepers.

    my issue was you were making out as if people were questioning him because of his age, thats irrelevant imo. he has ALWAYS been very very error prone.

    Ask Juventus fans how they remember him, he cost them a league title or two with his consistant cock ups and he is not remembered too fondly for it.

    All goalkeepers make mistakes, everyone knows that, the issue is that he makes them more often than a top goalkeeper should.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭Pyjamarama


    Ah they only asked for 6!

    And Boggles David James has prob been the best keeper in the premiership the last 3 years. The guy has really cut out the moments of madness for the most part. He's a FAR better keeper than VDS.

    All keepers make mistakes but VDS shows no real determination imo. He's an average keeper now, there's a serious lack of conviction when coming for the ball.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Cech is better than him. Reina can be just as dodgy as can Calamity James, as can Green (who definitely has potential to be better than him)...............
    Friedel and Howard? Okay sorry but now Im gonna take no notice of what you say cos you clearly allow bias to distort your views.


    When have Howard or Freidel ever played in Europs and Englands lowest conceding team may I ask?




    And maradona winning the league with Napoli, goalkeepers alone dont win you leagues.

    Yeah reina is dodgy, some extracts for you :rolleyes:

    On 3 December 2005 Reina kept his sixth consecutive clean sheet against Wigan Athletic F.C. in the Premier League to break the Liverpool club record for successive clean sheets in the Premiership era. He surpassed David James' record of five games from the 1996–97 season. Reina's incredible run ended at eight league games at Everton in Liverpool's 3-1 win over their Merseyside rivals on 28 December 2005.

    Reina also broke Liverpool FC's consecutive clean sheet record with 11 between October and December 2005 with Mineiro of São Paulo finally scoring past him on 18 December 2005 during the FIFA Club World Cup Final.

    On 2 February 2008, Reina became the quickest goalkeeper in Liverpool history to keep a half century of clean sheets. He hit the milestone during a 3-0 win against Sunderland on his 92nd league outing, beating the previous record by 3

    During 2008 Reina also won his third consecutive Golden Glove, after keeping 18 clean sheets during the season.

    must be just lucky is he??


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭gixerfixer


    Didnt Maradona play for Napoli for a while? Stupid argument tbh.

    Neither Reina nor VDS are world beaters.

    Totally disagree. Reina IMO is a world beater. Golden gloves what twice so far in his Liverpool career. VDS has never and at his age will never be considered world class.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    gixerfixer wrote: »
    Totally disagree. Reina IMO is a world beater. Golden gloves what twice so far in his Liverpool career. VDS has never and at his age will never be considered world class.

    3 golden gloves

    yet united fans thing he is dodgy, he and cech are the best in the EPL.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,447 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    PES2009 license Man United and Liverpool. The game between the two the follwoing weekend sees goals from two cutbacks and a terrible error from the keeper. Uncanny.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,447 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Cyrus wrote: »
    3 golden gloves

    yet united fans thing he is dodgy, he and cech are the best in the EPL.

    he pays in a far more defensive team than either Cech or van der Sar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Karmafaerie


    Boggles wrote: »
    Karmafaerie, I'll ignore your summise of my writing style.

    But I will point out you tried to convince me that Voronin was a top class central midfielder, and just yesterday you were fibbing about Babel. - Just in the sense of fairness. People are entitled to their opinion, some are just fúckíng plain crazy thou. ;)

    No Boogles.

    I said that Voronin plays best in the whole.
    AS a linkl up player, like Gerrard.
    That he has played most of his carrer there, and a lot of his career for Liverpool on the left or right.

    All true.
    My oppinions on HHH's ability have nothing to do with that.

    As for Babel, I was wrong.
    I wasn't fibbing, I was mistaken.
    And I have no problem, and had no problem, admitting that.

    I'm still right about the whole stupid supersub thing though.
    And being wrong about one point in an argument of


    And this isn't a case of oppionion.
    Who accused me of being snobbish, for saying that no top class player would play in a relegation threatened team for 4 years unless there were mitigating circumstances.
    VDS is a good keeper, but he's a long way from top class.
    And all the scouting agencies in world football seem to agree with me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,169 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    How many non United fans would rate VDS that highly? Not many I wouldn't think. Says a lot.

    I may not like Pool or Chelsea but I know Cech and Reina are two top quality keepers. VDS really doesn't strike me as one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,852 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    You forgot Given

    Top 5 worldclass goalkeeper - Best in the premiership imo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,447 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    How many non United fans would rate VDS that highly? Not many I wouldn't think. Says a lot.

    I may not like Pool or Chelsea but I know Cech and Reina are two top quality keepers. VDS really doesn't strike me as one.

    In his first season with United he was great, and was decent enough last season. He hasn't been top class since he broke his nose against Spurs a good while back, hesitant coming for crosses and not commanding when he does come. He was top class, but he isn't any more. I wish Fergie would give Foster a go at this point but i'm not even sure if he is fit - last I saw of him was when he played agaisnt the Chelsea reserves a month or so back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,852 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    I may not like Pool or Chelsea but I know Cech and Reina are two top quality keepers. VDS really doesn't strike me as one.

    I think age maybe finally caught up on him ,he was never a top 5 world class keeper but he's had better days than current form


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    VDS is a good keeper, but he's a long way from top class.

    Apart from what he has won with United the past 2 seasons, being a member of the best defense in Europe last season and also being nominated in UEFA 2008 team of the tournment as Captain of his country.

    Your criteria of top class is off the chart.

    Van Der Saar is an excellent keeper, accolades his fellow professionals bestow on him all the time, he is not the best goal keeper in the world, although at one stage he was considered up there.

    Reina is a very good keeper, but he has far more howlers than Van Der Saar, Golden gloves or not.

    As for Cech, excellent keeper but he has his own problems of late, for people who think he doesn't make mistakes, just think back to what happened against Turkey.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Tauren wrote: »
    he pays in a far more defensive team than either Cech or van der Sar.

    Well look at the stats

    Last season goals scored United 80 Chelsea 65 Liverpool 67
    Season before United 86 Chelsea 64 Liverpool 57

    So last season he played in a team that scored more league goals than chelsea and the season before in a team that scored 7 less, not conclusive evidence is it?

    Liverpool are a more defensive team than united alright.

    So your comment is wrong


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭gixerfixer


    Cyrus wrote: »
    3 golden gloves

    yet united fans thing he is dodgy, he and cech are the best in the EPL.

    Yeah that's true it is 3 which is incredible considering he is dodgy.Sure if he wasnt dodgy he would have 4-5 by now:rolleyes:..some people like to argue just for the sake of it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Well look at the stats

    Last season goals scored United 80 Chelsea 65 Liverpool 67
    Season before United 86 Chelsea 64 Liverpool 57

    So last season he played in a team that scored more league goals than chelsea and the season before in a team that scored 7 less, not conclusive evidence is it?

    Liverpool are a more defensive team than united alright.

    So your comment is wrong

    So Liverpool who predominately play with 2 sitting central defensive midfielders are not a defensive team?

    Listen mate, put the stats away and actually watch your team play football, you may be surprised what you notice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,447 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Well look at the stats

    Last season goals scored United 80 Chelsea 65 Liverpool 67
    Season before United 86 Chelsea 64 Liverpool 57

    So last season he played in a team that scored more league goals than chelsea and the season before in a team that scored 7 less, not conclusive evidence is it?

    Liverpool are a more defensive team than united alright.

    So your comment is wrong

    Chelsea weren't great going forward - and they are only slightly less defensive then liverpool - also, Cech has missed big enough portions of the last two seasons.

    Its the shots against stat that I would like to see the most.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭gixerfixer


    Boggles wrote: »
    So Liverpool who predominately play with 2 sitting central defensive midfielders are not a defensive team?

    Listen mate, put the stats away and actually watch your team play football, you may be surprised what you notice.

    I watched my team play football Saturday :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,447 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    gixerfixer wrote: »
    I watched my team play football Saturday :)

    I watched too - unfortunately I didn't see mine play much....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    gixerfixer wrote: »
    I watched my team play football Saturday :)

    Well done, I'm very happy for you.

    I watched one of the worst United performances in recent memory. I also watched probably one of the best Liveprool performances in recent memory, what was the score? 2-1 at home, an og and a bobble from Babel, yeah world beaters.Boton, West Ham, City and Chelsea all beat United at home last season, how did it finish again? Lets talk again in April. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Boggles wrote: »
    So Liverpool who predominately play with 2 sitting central defensive midfielders are not a defensive team?

    Listen mate, put the stats away and actually watch your team play football, you may be surprised what you notice.

    normally i have you on ignore but ill respond, the number of goals a team scores or does not score is a fair indication of how defensive they are, the stats show liverpool and chelsea are similar and united are more attacking how difficult is that to understand?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Cyrus wrote: »
    normally i have you on ignore but ill respond

    If you normally have me on ignore how did you know I posted?

    Liverpool play defensively, they set out there stall defensively, it is not a slur on them, it is a tactic, get over it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Boggles wrote: »
    Well done, I'm very happy for you.

    I watched one of the worst United performances in recent memory. I also watched probably one of the best Liveprool performances in recent memory, what was the score? 2-1 at home, an og and a bobble from Babel, yeah world beaters.Boton, West Ham, City and Chelsea all beat United at home last season, how did it finish again? Lets talk again in April. ;)

    seeing as you are so smart you will remember then that the reason united won the league last season was their record in the head to heads versus the other 'big 4'. losing to liverpool is a bigger deal than losing to bolton.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Cyrus wrote: »
    seeing as you are so smart you will remember then that the reason united won the league last season was their record in the head to heads versus the other 'big 4'. losing to liverpool is a bigger deal than losing to bolton.

    Why how many points do United lose because Liverpool beat them, 6?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Boggles wrote: »
    If you normally have me on ignore how did you know I posted?

    Liverpool play defensively, they set out there stall defensively, it is not a slur on them, it is a tactic, get over it.

    it says you posted and i can view the post if i want,

    at the moment im looking at them because its funny how badly this is effecting you.

    so liverpool play defensively, more defensively than chelsea, how then did they score more goals last season? you are making even less sense than usual and thats saying something :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Cyrus wrote: »
    it says you posted and i can view the post if i want,

    at the moment im looking at them because its funny how badly this is effecting you.

    so liverpool play defensively, more defensively than chelsea, how then did they score more goals last season? you are making even less sense than usual and thats saying something :p

    I never mentioned Chelsea, I said Liverpool have a defensive style, they play a solid back four with 2 sitting midfielders.

    My opinoin of there setup and the way they play is defensive, other people might call it counter attacking.

    What would you call it?

    Ps: Didn't know you can still see a person posted although you have them on ignore, personally I don't put people on ignore because I think it is retarded.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,852 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Cyrus wrote: »
    seeing as you are so smart you will remember then that the reason united won the league last season was their record in the head to heads versus the other 'big 4'. losing to liverpool is a bigger deal than losing to bolton.

    In his defence Cyrus, previous seasons (not last years) United had a poor record against the "big 4" (they came bottom of that "table" one year afair)and still won the league so.......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,447 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    came last? we beat Liverpool twice, two draws with arsenal and a win agaisnt chelsea. We came bottom with 11 points out of a possible 18?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Karmafaerie


    Boggles wrote: »
    Apart from what he has won with United the past 2 seasons, being a member of the best defense in Europe last season and also being nominated in UEFA 2008 team of the tournment as Captain of his country.

    Your criteria of top class is off the chart.

    Van Der Saar is an excellent keeper, accolades his fellow professionals bestow on him all the time, he is not the best goal keeper in the world, although at one stage he was considered up there.

    Reina is a very good keeper, but he has far more howlers than Van Der Saar, Golden gloves or not.

    As for Cech, excellent keeper but he has his own problems of late, for people who think he doesn't make mistakes, just think back to what happened against Turkey.


    And Dudek has a few of medals in his cabinet.
    Doesn't make him world class!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,852 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Tauren wrote: »
    came last? we beat Liverpool twice, two draws with arsenal and a win agaisnt chelsea. We came bottom with 11 points out of a possible 18?


    previous seasons. I knew someone would take it up wrong and jump on it. There was a premiership season where we won the league and came bottom of that mini table. Do i have to dig it out and look for it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    And Dudek has a few of medals in his cabinet.
    Doesn't make him world class!

    Agreed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Boggles wrote: »
    I never mentioned Chelsea, I said Liverpool have a defensive style, they play a solid back four with 2 sitting midfielders.

    My opinoin of there setup and the way they play is defensive, other people might call it counter attacking.

    What would you call it?

    Ps: Didn't know you can still see a person posted although you have them on ignore, personally I don't put people on ignore because I think it is retarded.

    the person i was responding to, before you put your oar in, was saying liverpool were a more defensive team than chelsea and united, i pointed out that it was factually incorrect.

    i have you on ignore because i think your posts are retarded :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Trilla wrote: »
    previous seasons. I knew someone would take it up wrong and jump on it. There was a premiership season where we won the league and came bottom of that mini table. Do i have to dig it out and look for it?

    you can if you want

    i was specifically referring to last season however


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Cyrus wrote: »
    i have you on ignore because i think your posts are retarded :)

    Careful. With abuse like that you may not have to put me on ignore. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,447 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Trilla wrote: »
    previous seasons. I knew someone would take it up wrong and jump on it. There was a premiership season where we won the league and came bottom of that mini table. Do i have to dig it out and look for it?

    no, sorry, I misread the post - i was reading too fast for my little mind to cope.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Boggles wrote: »
    Careful. ;)

    i dont need to be, i responded in kind to your post :) it is saying the same thing as mine, you might think in a more subtle way but it isnt


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,852 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Tauren wrote: »
    no, sorry, I misread the post - i was reading too fast for my little mind to cope.

    2000/2001

    United only won one game - 6:1 against Arsenal

    They lost twice to Liverpool, once to Arsenal and drew twice with Chelsea

    Liverpool topped that table with 3 wins and 1 draw
    Arsenal second with 2 wins and 2 draws
    Chelsea were undefeated but drew 5 times
    United, well bottom of that but ended up Champions (3 in a row)

    so there ya go fellas, doesnt mean that much does it!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Trilla wrote: »
    2000/2001

    United only won one game - 6:1 against Arsenal

    They lost twice to Liverpool, once to Arsenal and drew twice with Chelsea

    Liverpool topped that table with 3 wins and 1 draw
    Arsenal second with 2 wins and 2 draws
    Chelsea were undefeated but drew 5 times
    United, well bottom of that but ended up Champions (3 in a row)

    so there ya go fellas, doesnt mean that much does it!!

    it didnt but that was 7 years ago, and the mini table decided the league last year, the criticism of liverpool was that their record against the mid table teams was poor, last year it was as good as the top teams but their results against the top teams wasnt good enough


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭raven136


    Great atmosphere,Great win and great performance.

    Reina is a better keeper than vds,those who say otherewise are clouded by club affliations but thats always the way.

    Man for man in many areas that united team on saturday was better than the pool's options but liverpool played as a team and fought for everthing a little harder,very similar to their champions league form.

    Maybe its too early to say but where do berbatov,rooney,tevez,ronaldo and anderson fit into the team that faces a midfield that shuts them down?
    Reminded me of the Barca game in the champions league,pool shut them down with hard work and tenacity.
    Masch was immense at the weekend and coverd every blad,kuyt,keane and xabi the same.

    Not expecting a title on the back of it but i believe the confidence is now there for us to give it a good crack.
    Stoke on saturday gives us a chance to open a lead on either united or chelsea


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,716 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Cyrus wrote: »
    it didnt but that was 7 years ago, and the mini table decided the league last year, the criticism of liverpool was that their record against the mid table teams was poor, last year it was as good as the top teams but their results against the top teams wasnt good enough

    Liverpools problem last season was they drew 13 matches, the season before they lost 10, so I would see that as progression.

    Chelsea last season no more lost the League to United by being beaten 2-0 at old trafford then they did with Wigan equalising in the last minute at stamford bridge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,304 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Boggles wrote: »
    Liverpools problem last season was they drew 13 matches, the season before they lost 10, so I would see that as progression.

    Chelsea last season no more lost the League to United by being beaten 2-0 at old trafford then they did with Wigan equalising in the last minute at stamford bridge.

    If you take the results of the big 4 teams against each other out of the table the top 4 teams have nearly the same amount of points, there might be a difference of 4 points between top and bottom

    the mini league decided the title


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    Cyrus wrote: »
    it didnt but that was 7 years ago, and the mini table decided the league last year, the criticism of liverpool was that their record against the mid table teams was poor, last year it was as good as the top teams but their results against the top teams wasnt good enough

    Don't let facts or stats get in the way of an argument! Sure have you ever actually watched your team play? Anecdotal evidence is of far more value! :rolleyes:

    I have to say, in the aftermath of the match on Saturday, one well known poster has gone down in my estimation, and one poster who was already in the gutter in my estimation has fallen through the drain. The bitterness, be it overt or covert, is unreal.


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr Magnolia


    I've actually been surprised with how magnanimous most Utd supporters have been in defeat. Good to see & fair play to them.


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