Circus Protesters

lindtee

To the people I saw yesterday protesting against cruel treatment to animals outside a circus in my local area(whose flyer states "now even more animals")-

GOOD ON YOU!!!

I refuse to bring my children to circuses which have animals(actually they've never been to a circus of any sort!)

JoeySully

I never went to the circus when i was a child and now i like going every so often but was very dissapointed recently when all they had was little ponys no elephants or anything exotic

cowzerp

i agree, they should be banned in ireland-cruel and unnecessary..

Honey-ec

Absolutely agree 100%.

JoeySully, do you really think that a life lived between trailers and a noisy tent is the ideal environment for an elephant???

The_Minister

I used to love all the different animals...:(

Why steal my childhood?

Run_to_da_hills

Some county councils have banned the use of council property for live animal circuses.

Vegeta

Honey-ec wrote: »

Absolutely agree 100%.

JoeySully, do you really think that a life lived between trailers and a noisy tent is the ideal environment for an elephant???

Just to play devil's advocate as I like it,

Do you really think living indoors or trapped in a garden with the odd walk is any sort of life for a dog?

Disclaimer: I am not saying the circus is a cruelty free environment, as I simply don't know enough about it.

cowzerp

Vegeta wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate as I like it,

Do you really think living indoors or trapped in a garden with the odd walk is any sort of life for a dog?

Disclaimer: I am not saying the circus is a cruelty free environment, as I simply don't know enough about it.

dogs are domesticated animals, elephants are wild and are been used for profit, how do you think they train the elephants, give them peanuts when they do a trick? i watched a program on circuses training animals and it was sick.

whitser

as long as the animals are well cared for i dont see a problem. lots of people keep exotic pets. not like they could be released into the wild,they'd die in no time. i think there could be some middle ground found. who'll look after the animals if the circus is banned?

stevoman

i dont mind the circus to be honest. i have always enjoyed it and i will be looking forward to taking my little girl to it aswell when she gets a little older.

whitser

to be honest these protesters wouldnt like any animals to be used in a circus wether its a elephant or a dog. its very easy to make sure the animals are well cared for.
of course its not ideal but either is a zoo, will we ban them too?

stevoman

whitser wrote: »

to be honest these protesters wouldnt like any animals to be used in a circus wether its a elephant or a dog. its very easy to make sure the animals are well cared for.
of course its not ideal but either is a zoo, will we ban them too?

very true. im my opinion a lot of protesting groups push their views in peoples faces (the icabs for example) and use a lot of underhanded tactics to get their points across and because of a lot of them i dont have much time for protesting groups.

Glowing

I'd love to see circus animals banned - in particular the cats and the elephants.

And yes, I wouldn't be too upset to see Zoo's banned too ..... or at least have MUCH stricter guidelines. At least with a zoo, you can rest assured that the staff will have some sort of training ....

whitser

cowzerp wrote: »

dogs are domesticated animals, elephants are wild and are been used for profit, how do you think they train the elephants, give them peanuts when they do a trick? i watched a program on circuses training animals and it was sick.

elephants have been domesticated as well,they are used in india as work animals. in fact they been used all over asia for thousands of years as work animals. as for profit, will we ban horse racing, greyhound racing etc....?
if the animals are being neglected by all means do something.

whitser

Glowing wrote: »

I'd love to see circus animals banned - in particular the cats and the elephants.

And yes, I wouldn't be too upset to see Zoo's banned too ..... or at least have MUCH stricter guidelines. At least with a zoo, you can rest assured that the staff will have some sort of training ....

there's room for middle ground. train staff,make sure animals are well looked after etc...
dont know why everything with these protesters in ban it, these same people probably disrupt horse races,greyhound races,countrysports etc...
they believe animals should have equal rights to humans.
if thats the case we shouldnt-eat them
wear them
fish them
hunt them
ride/race them
keep them as pets

lindtee

I don't agree with circuses having animals-thats why I wouldn't go. This particular circus has dumped animal faeces in our local rivers in the past too. I'm sorry but it seems like a rotten existance for an animal to be transported around the country and used to perform tricks for people-I'd like to be proved wrong on this one and find out the animals are happy and well cared for. I just find the whole idea of circus animals sad.

Have to admit that I do have membership to fota though-I think most of the animals seem to be taken care of and have good room to roam. However the ponds/lakes (whatever they are) are manky.

Horse racing and grey-hound racing I just find silly. Betting money on animals running around in a circle is daft(and don't tell me there are any other reasons than monetary ones for racing animals!) however for the most part I don't think these animals are being treated cruelly.

Vegeta

cowzerp wrote: »

dogs are domesticated animals, elephants are wild and are been used for profit, how do you think they train the elephants, give them peanuts when they do a trick? i watched a program on circuses training animals and it was sick.

So its ok to cage and keep imprisoned a domesticated animal but not a wild one. Why is that exactly?

What if the wild animal was treated very well?

What if the strain of circus elephants etc are domesticated? Does that suddenly make it ok?

Animals used for profit, treated like a commodity and kept in poor living conditions **cough.......farming......cough**

Number of animals in farming versus number of animals in the circus. I know where I'd be aiming my efforts anyway

Again I don't know how circus animals are treated generally or how they source them, I am just making the point that we are very quick to judge when we ourselves are often no better. There are much bigger fish to fry than the circus.

I am playing devil's advocate so please don't take anything personally, I just think there are better targets for animal cruelty campaigns than the circus and maybe these people are campigning there too but its not as visable to me anyway

Glowing

Racehorses generally aren't mistreated and treated like livestock, they're too expensive.

Now don't even talk to me about the greyhound racing industry ... the racing dogs might not be directly mistreated, but the industry it creates is sick. Thousands and thousands of healthy pups culled every year because they don't make the grade. Abandoned dogs, dogs beaten to death, dogs with their ears cut off and dumped, dogs with their tattoos burnt off with acid (yes, it happens regularly, would you like to see the pictures??) .. i could go on ...

So yes, I'd like to see that banned too. And I've no shame in admitting it either.

stevoman

lindtee wrote: »

I don't agree with circuses having animals-thats why I wouldn't go. This particular circus has dumped animal faeces in our local rivers in the past too.

is that just hear say or was there criminal proceedings taken against the circus?

stevoman

Glowing wrote: »

Racehorses generally aren't mistreated and treated like livestock, they're too expensive.

Now don't even talk to me about the greyhound racing industry ... the racing dogs might not be directly mistreated, but the industry it creates is sick. Thousands and thousands of healthy pups culled every year because they don't make the grade. Abandoned dogs, dogs beaten to death, dogs with their ears cut off and dumped, dogs with their tattoos burnt off with acid (yes, it happens regularly, would you like to see the pictures??) .. i could go on ...

So yes, I'd like to see that banned too. And I've no shame in admitting it either.

why ban it? its an ancient sport whom many enjoy (including myself and not for the betting reasons). intead of banning it why not have stricter regulations. is that not a middle ground instead of an out right ban.

Its the ban this ban that attitude by protesters that i cant understand or take. maybe if they just sat down and tried to find a good solution to everyones and the animals issues they might get some more support from people.

Whispered

Vegeta wrote: »

Do you really think living indoors or trapped in a garden with the odd walk is any sort of life for a dog?
it.

No it's not, and thats why there needs to be stricter laws on the keeping of animals, whether they are performing, domestic or farmed.

whitser wrote: »

as long as the animals are well cared for i dont see a problem. lots of people keep exotic pets. not like they could be released into the wild,they'd die in no time. i think there could be some middle ground found. who'll look after the animals if the circus is banned?

I would agree, if you can be assured that they are being well looked after. By their nature, circuses move around. They must be very very hard for animal rights officials to investigate. If the animals are badly treated there is nothing that can be easily done. So some people prefer not to go rather than risk supporting something that could so easily be cruelty.

whitser wrote: »

. as for profit, will we ban horse racing, greyhound racing etc....?
if the animals are being neglected by all means do something.

I would say that some of the best adjusted dogs I have ever come across are working dogs. So I don't disagree with racing hounds, I do disagree with the way the industry on a whole is regulated. And what happens to those dogs when they get too old, or get an injury. Again, it's a case of better law enforcement. On many occasions hounds have been picked up after being thrown out of cars. The IGB have been called, have confirmed that they can id the owner and said that STILL nothing can be done. How ridiculous is that?!?

whitser wrote: »

eat them
wear them
fish them
hunt them
ride/race them
keep them as pets

There are also people who think that if you pick fruit you're killing it, and they only eat food that has already dropped!!! There are extremes to both sides, I don't think not supporting animals circuses can be compared to the people who think we shouldn't eat them, wear them, fish them, hunt them, ride/race them, keep them as pets. (although I don't think we should eat them, hunt them or fish them. )

lindtee wrote: »

Horse racing and grey-hound racing I just find silly. Betting money on animals running around in a circle is daft(and don't tell me there are any other reasons than monetary ones for racing animals!) however for the most part I don't think these animals are being treated cruelly.

In fact the irish greyhound industry is extremly cruel. I don't know enough about the horse racing industry to comment.

whitser

Glowing wrote: »

Racehorses generally aren't mistreated and treated like livestock, they're too expensive.

Now don't even talk to me about the greyhound racing industry ... the racing dogs might not be directly mistreated, but the industry it creates is sick. Thousands and thousands of healthy pups culled every year because they don't make the grade. Abandoned dogs, dogs beaten to death, dogs with their ears cut off and dumped, dogs with their tattoos burnt off with acid (yes, it happens regularly, would you like to see the pictures??) .. i could go on ...

So yes, I'd like to see that banned too. And I've no shame in admitting it either.

wow wow wow. first of all dogs getting beaten and burned etc...is not the norm. just cos some pet owners abuse their pets,do all pet owners? and when greyhounds pups are put down its done quickly and humanely,in the vast majority of cases, and thats not cruel,not pleasent but its not cruel. any man who keeps greyhounds can only keep the best he's got, so should he fill shelters with the rest of put them or down humanely? fact is he cant afford to keep every pup he whelps and if no one else wants them cos they are too slow what can he do? pounds put down dogs every day,are they cruel?

Whispered

whitser wrote: »

wow wow wow. first of all dogs getting beaten and burned etc...is not the norm. just cos some pet owners abuse their pets,do all pet owners? and when greyhounds pups are put down its done quickly and humanely,in the vast majority of cases, and thats not cruel,not pleasent but its not cruel. any man who keeps greyhounds can only keep the best he's got, so should he fill shelters with the rest of put them or down humanely? fact is he cant afford to keep every pup he whelps and if no one else wants them cos they are too slow what can he do? pounds put down dogs every day,are they cruel?

wow wow wow, re-read what you just said. Disgusting. If they can't afford to keep them then, um, maybe, don't get the bloody dog pregnant in the first place. Believe me, it is the norm in the greyhound racing industry for dogs to be strayed or killed when no longer fast enough.

Glowing

Sure Stevoman, who's going to regulate it? What are they going to do with the leftover dogs? Ireland doesn't have homes for these apparent 'viscous breeds' (the shelters will tell you that). Who's going to pay to export them?

The IGB are useless - and while this sport exists, and the demand for fast dogs exist, there's always going to be backyard breeders trying to make a quick buck. If I had any confidence in the Irish regulatory boards, then I'd agree with you, definitely. But I don't see any other solution in this instance ...

Anyway, OFF TOPIC, SORRY

whitser

helena.ryan wrote: »

wow wow wow, re-read what you just said. Disgusting. If they can't afford to keep them then, um, maybe, don't get the bloody dog pregnant in the first place. Believe me, it is the norm in the greyhound racing industry for dogs to be strayed or killed when no longer fast enough.

i didnt say they're not killed but as long as its done quickly and painlessly its not cruel. pounds put down dogs every day,are they cruel?
im not even going to try and condone straying them or cutting off ears etc..thats cruelty.

stevoman

helena.ryan wrote: »

wow wow wow, re-read what you just said. Disgusting. If they can't afford to keep them then, um, maybe, don't get the bloody dog pregnant in the first place. Believe me, it is the norm in the greyhound racing industry for dogs to be strayed or killed when no longer fast enough.

but its also the norm in the horse racing industry to put down horses if they are injured. its also the norm in agriculture to kill off calves if they are of no use to dairy or beef. some calves can be bought in the mart for anything up to €10 and nobody will even buy them. yes all of this is cruel but to find solutions things have to be approached in a reasonable and understanding manner instead of stating here say that some greyhound men may do, tar everyone else with the same brush and then call for it to be banned. its no wonder with the "ban it" attidudes that so many people have, others will protest for it not to be banned and the arguement becomes black and white, wehre it should be on the grey areas that people should be disscussing and meeting halfway.

stevoman

Glowing wrote: »

Sure Stevoman, who's going to regulate it? What are they going to do with the leftover dogs? Ireland doesn't have homes for these apparent 'viscous breeds' (the shelters will tell you that). Who's going to pay to export them?

The IGB are useless - and while this sport exists, and the demand for fast dogs exist, there's always going to be backyard breeders trying to make a quick buck. If I had any confidence in the Irish regulatory boards, then I'd agree with you, definitely. But I don't see any other solution in this instance ...

but this is the issue that pricesly must be tackled instead of calling for complete bans. if this issue was tackled and regulated thourghaly then there would be no protests (although we all know somebody would have something to complain about), but all sides would have come together to make an effort to improve things.

stevoman

Glowing wrote: »

Sure Stevoman, who's going to regulate it? What are they going to do with the leftover dogs? Ireland doesn't have homes for these apparent 'viscous breeds' (the shelters will tell you that). Who's going to pay to export them?

on this note maybe some sort of breeders should licenses have to come into play for racing dogs. give them special chips and licenses. i bet this would stop your backyard breeders.

whitser

there's back yard breeders in every dog scene wether it be racing,hunting,pet what ever. but that doesnt meen everyone who breeds a litter is only after money.

Glowing

The Irish can hardly regulate their own hospitals! I hold no hope whatsoever for the greyhound industry.

No Whitser I agree with you there generally. But considering how few greyhounds are owned as domestic pets, you'd be safe in assuming that 99.9% of greyhound litters are produced to make money for syndicates or whatever....

stevoman

whitser wrote: »

there's back yard breeders in every dog scene wether it be racing,hunting,pet what ever. but that doesnt meen everyone who breeds a litter is only after money.

good point. twice i have mentioned that i would like to brred my dog on boards and twice i have been lambasted by other members for wanting to do so even to the point where some of them had infractions put on them. not all breeders are bad.

but in some cases of regulated racing would a sppecial registration of dogs not be a good idea. all race horses have passports (including full body and head pictures).

all cattle have passports too.