British and Irish Lions 2009

Keverton

On current form any ideas for starting 15 for the first test? Also ideas for captain, Ryan Jones in pole position.

Signed Ian McGeechan

Amz

Er, what do you define as "current" form?

Summer tests and the single weekend of Mangers League/Guinness Premiership, or GP and ML alone?

zAbbo

This is about 6 months too early.

Downtime

Give the guy a break, he is only trying to start a discussion. I don't see that it is too early since every major rugby website has already started a discussion on it.

zAbbo

Downtime wrote: »

Give the guy a break, he is only trying to start a discussion. I don't see that it is too early since every major rugby website has already started a discussion on it.

Trying to start a discussion with no real opinion or input, it's a bit of a moot point considering the season only really starts now with the real deciding factors coming from the 6n and end of season.

Hurricane_

Personally I dont think the Irish players should be involved in the Loins tour it never really held any interest for me and i dont think it serves any purpose from an Irish perspective.

gcgirl

After the 6 nations there would be a better idea of who i'd include

Zzippy

zAbbo wrote: »

Trying to start a discussion with no real opinion or input, it's a bit of a moot point considering the season only really starts now with the real deciding factors coming from the 6n and end of season.

Sure why not have the discussion now, and see who drops out of the reckoning as the season goes on, and who comes in?

My $0.02: O'Driscoll, O'Connell and Kearney (hopeful pick) to be in the Test XV. O'Gara, O'Callaghan, Trimble, Leamy, Wallace to make the squad. I'm sure there will be a couple of others in there too...

buck65

after the last debacle down south i'm surprised anyone cares too much

Inquitus

O'Connell is the only certainty, not sure BOD is one of the best 2 centres in the British Isles any more tbh.

O'Gara maybe will hold down the 10 shirt, but if Cipriani shows any sort of form the UK press machine and Ian McG will most certainly pick him whether he deserves it or not.

Kearney with a good 6 Nations has an outside chance, I think they'll be a massive English bias and they'll get hockied tbh.

Hurricane_

Inquitus wrote: »

O'Connell is the only certainty, not sure BOD is one of the best 2 centres in the British Isles any more tbh.

O'Gara maybe will hold down the 10 shirt, but if Cipriani shows any sort of form the UK press machine and Ian McG will most certainly pick him whether he deserves it or not.

Kearney with a good 6 Nations has an outside chance, I think they'll be a massive English bias and they'll get hockied tbh.

Its due this type of bias that I think the Lions is ultimately irrelevant for Ireland Scotland and Wales.

What might be more appropiate would be an invitational team that included countries involved in the Celtic League or more better still an invitational team styled on a Ryder Cup approach a much more European flavour that would enourage more development of rugby within other European nations??

wixfjord

I wouldnt see o driscoll as a cert. O Connell, kearney and heaslip should hopefully make test 22 at least, along with o gara. Above poster was right about cipriani and it will be very interesting to see will he come back the same player. Also interesting will be the choice for the other out halfs- o gara wilkinson patterson etc. So many big decisions. I myself dont think the lions thing will ever work again, as team spirit plays such a big part on international rugby and a team from 4 countries just doesnt have the same will to win for the lions badge than their own country.

[Jackass]

There's a lot more competition than just Cipriani & O'Gara for the 10 jersey.

wixfjord

[Jackass] wrote: »

There's a lot more competition than just Cipriani & O'Gara for the 10 jersey.

Who else realistically is there tho? I mean hook and jones arent up to that class imo, sexton, hodgson, parks, goode, barkley, lamb, gerathy, henson? I dont see anyone striking from that. If cipriani regains form, it should be him.

Stev_o

My XV would be

15.Kearney/Byrne
14.Sackey
13.???(Shanklin?)
12.????(Roberts? god forbid Henson uughhh)
11.S.Williams
10. (Its a complete throw up between Jones, Cipriani, Hook and O'Gara) Id go with Cipriani if he gets back from his injury and still has his spark but if not id go with Jones.
9.Blair/Reddan/Philips
8.R.Jones
7.M.Williams/Rees
6.Haskell/Hogg/Croft?
5.Gough
4.AW.Jones/O'Connel
3.Stevens
2.Ford (i dunno about anyone here but iv always been imrpessed by his performances)
1.Sheridan

Honestly i think we are f**ked in the centre as there is hardly any impressive 12 or 13's around the Isles at the moment

buck65

Munster without the 3 Kiwis would be stronger than that team.

Inquitus

buck65 wrote: »

Munster without the 3 Kiwis would be stronger than that team.

I'd concur, if anything like that XV gets onto the pitch for the 1st test we'll ship 50 points.

Stev_o

Then why dont you get a petition going and just send Munster down instead :rolleyes:

zAbbo

Kearney won't get a look in at FB, when he's playing on the wing for Leinster, and Lee Byrne is a much better player then him.

I think it would be a bit optimistic to say we have bankers in the XV, I don't think POC will get it after bottling the RWC '07 and Lions '05.

Hook for 10/12

zAbbo

buck65 wrote: »

Munster without the 3 Kiwis would be stronger than that team.

You'd think the Munster without the Leinster backline would be better as well, but we've saw what happens on the International stage already...

wixfjord

zAbbo wrote: »

Hook for 10/12

Funny that, I dont rate hook at all. Hes grand when hes playing the welsh game of attack attack and throwing the ball around but id much prefer the likes of o gara in a tight game as much as i dont like o gara. Lee Byrne has to be dead set full back, great player, as does williams. That means another wing spot left between the likes of sackey, horgan, kearney, strettle (who i think will be very good if he stays injury free) and possibly patterson. A lot to happen before then tho. Few welsh guys to come through aswell as earls and fitz possibly.

Stev_o

wixfjord wrote: »

Funny that, I dont rate hook at all. Hes grand when hes playing the welsh game of attack attack and throwing the ball around but id much prefer the likes of o gara in a tight game as much as i dont like o gara. Lee Byrne has to be dead set full back, great player, as does williams. That means another wing spot left between the likes of sackey, horgan, kearney, strettle (who i think will be very good if he stays injury free) and possibly patterson. A lot to happen before then tho. Few welsh guys to come through aswell as earls and fitz possibly.

If Earls had of had his breakthrough season last year he'd be a worthy contender but the guys only now beginning to start for Munster hasnt even played for Ireland so Lions will be a bit far for him im afraid for this year

Danger_Dave

Stev_o wrote: »

If Earls had of had his breakthrough season last year he'd be a worthy contender but the guys only now beginning to start for Munster hasnt even played for Ireland so Lions will be a bit far for him im afraid for this year

Its a bit far, but if he keeps playing for munster all season, including the HC. He'll get picked for the ireland team. If he plays in the 6 nations , he'll have a chance just for the fact the Home Nations have no centre's at moment. Gordon Darcy is going to have to play very well to get the 12 for Leinster, let alone Ireland.

Its still a big if

[Jackass]

How many senior games has he played at club level...3? 4?

Yeah, let's talk about him in the Lions first 15, seeing as he's already nailed down the Irish 12.

The main Irish contenders I see for the Lions tour are Kearney, O'Driscoll, O'Gara, O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Heaslip, Wallace - and A LOT depends on who gets into the Irish first 15. I think any one of 3 Irish hookers would make the squad at least if they got a full run (and played to their ability) in the 6N. Back row is a tough call, then in the backs, again the likes of Horgan, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald, EARLS!! could all get a look in if they get a good international run.

I think it's mostly based on international credentials. Kearney just needs a good season to be in the Lions squad. He has shown his international credentials already with a very steady 6 nations and a superb tour down under. The best Irish player on the tour infact imo.

Also, Cipriani & Hook are the 2 best No. 10's in the NH at the moment. No slant on O'Gara, but he has had nothing short of a disastor at international level mainly including the world cup and an average (along with most Irish players) 6 nations. In the eyes of the selectors, I think he would be on a par with Jones and behind Cipriani & Hook and who knows about Wilkinson.

Inquitus

Hooks ****e, and Cipriani had one half decent game in the 6 nations then got injured.

toomevara

Inquitus wrote: »

Hooks ****e, .

Please expand, simply cant see where you get that from..he's as good at least as any other NH 10 at the moment. Watched him play for the Ospreys last night against Cardiff and he had a good game (one or two, shall we say 'eccentric' plays,as always) but '****e' think thats massively over - egging it.

Incidentally Tommy Bowe had an excellent game, seems to be in his element in an attacking, aggressive and skillful backline... a brave move that seems to be paying off.

Inquitus

toomevara wrote: »

Please expand, simply cant see where you get that from..he's as good at least as any other NH 10 at the moment. Watched him play for the Ospreys last night against Cardiff and he had a good game (one or two, shall we say 'eccentric' plays,as always) but '****e' think thats massively over - egging it.

Incidentally Tommy Bowe had an excellent game, seems to be in his element in an attacking, aggressive and skillful backline... a brave move that seems to be paying off.

I don't rate Hook personally, he had more than a few moments last night, not consistent enough and a potential liability. That said he did take a sublime line for their 2nd try.

toomevara

Inquitus wrote: »

I don't rate Hook personally, he had more than a few moments last night, not consistent enough and a potential liability. That said he did take a sublime line for their 2nd try.

Do take your point re: consistency, but I think he's very close to becoming the finished article...He reads a game so well and isn't afraid to take a chance. Also think his defence is excellent, a real asset in the modern era, with the way the 10 channel is targeted...and of course his field kicking is superb, and he's got a beautifully soft pair of hands...I reckon (early days yet of course) that he'll be the first choice 10 for the Lions in SA...and I'd be happy enough with that...

wixfjord

toomevara wrote: »

Do take your point re: consistency, but I think he's very close to becoming the finished article...He reads a game so well and isn't afraid to take a chance. Also think his defence is excellent, a real asset in the modern era, with the way the 10 channel is targeted...and of course his field kicking is superb, and he's got a beautifully soft pair of hands...I reckon (early days yet of course) that he'll be the first choice 10 for the Lions in SA...and I'd be happy enough with that...

I feel that hook is a good 10 in a very good attacking ospreys and wales team. However I didnt rate him very highly in the 6 nations last season and havent done for wales since his breakthrough games, in game control and leadership terms anyway. Wilkinson, o gara and even cipriani all have better leadership qualities and thts what the lions will need imo. Lots of leaders.

I cant see how wallace will fit into the back row too, would go with recognised 7s myself.

thehighground

IMO, the only Welsh player who didn't look out of their depth on tour in SA this year was Shane Williams. The English team didn't fair too well on their trip downunder either. If the performance of Hook et al can be ignored on that tour, I think you should be able to forget the performance of Irish players in the World Cup / 6Ns this year.

btw, I think it was McGeechan (maybe it was Edwards) who commented on ROG giving a masterclass in outhalf play to Wasps (& young Danny who did play well) last January.

Nukem

Reddan, ROG, BOD, DOC, POC, Heaslip, Kearney (Utility player)

Hook looks fabulous on form but looks like a lost little boy when things go a little Pete Tong. Cipriana is the same and as I remember very prone to making rash tactical decisions.

I think this will be another all England affair and we will get stuffed as a result of narrow mindedness.

Stev_o

Heaslip on current form wouldnt start since the Summer Tours he's managed to go anonymous during games.

siochain

great topic, will post team when i have more time

Amazotheamazing

Stev_o wrote: »

Heaslip on current form wouldnt start since the Summer Tours he's managed to go anonymous during games.

He's often done this, just the hype is wearing off.