Urgent help needed : Shelter in desperat need of help !!!!

BlackCat2008

Again I have to sit and wait till monday to get answers from the supermarkets and shopping centre's to go ahead with the food drive this seems to be such a long prosses no wonder charities are going under.

bnagrrl

Made a donation online. Hope it helps you guys.

MissyN

Hey there, I made a donation on line. You're doing a great job here BC2008.

BlackCat2008

Again no word from tesco and have to drive out to Dunnes HO to leave in a letter because they don't except hotmail or yahoo e-mail I don't know of any other e-mail than msn and they are looking for info I haven't a clue of to set up an e-mail, anyway heading into tech threads now to see if I can save myself a trip tomorrow.

BlackCat2008

Don't think this food drive will happen ant time soon the supermarkets can't do it on such short notice, but I do hope when the time comes everyone can still offer their help, Hve one more to hear from so fingers crossed.

I'll be going down Fri or Sat for defo, their site is down so I'll have to post pitures on a new site for them until they get it up and running again so everyone can have a look see.

SuzyS1972

My friends mum got a dog from them who had not long had a litter of puppies. They took her home that day - she wasn't neutered.
I was shocked to be honest as quite honestly how could they know that these people wouldn't let her out to roam and she'd be pregnant again in no time with another 6 or more unwanted dogs.
Luckily these are responsible dog owners and she has been neutered since and is the love of their life but things could have been all so different.

I understand they may not have the resources to home vet for every dog but
neutering animals before they leave ( if a suitable age ) then we are peeing against the wind in our struggle to keep down the numbers of unwanted dogs in Ireland.

Just my tuppence worth :pac:

Vel

Wow, I'm quite shocked by that Suzy and its worse than I thought.

Unfortunately, not all dogs can be saved and in my opinion it is better for a rescue to only take on an amount they can handle. A homecheck and spaying/neutering should be the most important and basic requirement and if you don't do this you are not rehoming responsibly and only contributing to the problem.

I think on a thread requesting help for an organisation this is vital information to have because personally I would not support a rescue who do not homecheck and spay/neuter.

BlackCat2008

Are you sure you have your facts right on that suzy, I've met these people a few times and there priorities are the same as mine, Test, vac's and neuter, I don't believe for one minute they let a dog leave unentered, if they did they would have made the new owners prove they would neuter her and be sent back the bill or some form of prove to prove it.

I am also aware of how bitchy other shelters can be when one is getting help or publicity the other can't help but tear them down for there own benefit and this is something I hope to start a thread on when I have time to answer posts.

The reason I support this shelter is I have never heard a bad word from them putting any other shelter down, they my not be the most up to date shelter but me and others are helping them to get there. They love these animals and how they are handled when I've been around is with respect, they learn each animal and it's needs not shuff them in a cage and forget them, they have earned my respect from one rescue to another, the pet detective and empoyee's, Pete Weatherbryne, Tv'3 and more people come form all over Europe to volunteer and when I arrive down on Sat I will have at leased five Dane's to help me get the photo's I need to help them get re-homed.

And yes Vel I've heard these same words come from a shelter I was speaking to recently who I know do not support them and tried putting them down on radio because they managed to raise just a little more money that year than they did.

I am aware who comes on boards and other chat sites and I knew what I was getting into but your words will not take from the good work these people do or people have seen for them selfs

I can only say to anyone who wants to pull them down to pay them a visit and I promise you's in no time at all they will earn your respect.

CrowdedHouse

BlackCat2008

Slightly OT but do you know if they have any Basset Hounds at the moment ?

We were in touch with them before some time ago,I assume they kept our contact details,but we never heard any more.

Libby029

Have made a donation...i rescued my dog from a shelter and she is love of my life.

As for dogs that are not neutered when leaving the shelter... do people not think that the fact this organisation is saving dogs that mostly likely would have been put down.. have enough expenses without trying to pay for such procedures... I think if you are taking a dog and it doesn't happen to be neutered, it makes sense that the new owner do it!! If they can afford to take on a dog and all the vetinary bills that the dog will have throughout it's life.. what is one more bill!! It's not that expensive.

I really do think highly of these organisations!!

SuzyS1972

no i think neutering is vital - you can do all the good work withe the greatest heart in the world but unless these dogs are neutered full stop the cycle of unwanted pups will never end . I have seen 1st hand people being given dogs trust vouchers taking a dog from a pound and still bringing it back pregnant - with the best of intentions people do not always do what they say.
it's up to rescues taking in these dogs to be part of the bigger picture and help prevent more unwanted dogs.

Beth

The bitch we got from a rescue wasnt spayed. Not because the rescue isnt responsible - they were looking out for her. she hadnt had a season at all and were waiting on it. We happened to fall in love with her before her season arrived and so adopted her.

She went in for spaying today (emergency spay due to pyo) just a small bit earlier than intended - and the rescue was notified of the date the spaying would be done.

As part of the adoption contract, it was specified that she was to be spayed at the end of August. If we didnt follow the contract, then the rescue were entitled to take her off us. <-- which I completely agree with.

She was only coming into season the day we got her so the rescue didnt even know it yet. Because of her coming into season and the vet advising us to wait longer than August for spaying to let the hormones return to normal levels, we checked with the rescue to see if this was ok with them. We AND the rescue wanted the best for our bitch so it was ok for us to wait as per the vets instructions. If we didnt get her spayed, then the rescue would be fully entitled to take her back off us as it states that in the contract, as well as the spaying being stated.

We prevented her getting pregnant while having an intact male in the house, and others can too, until the dog is spayed or neutered. Yes it was stressful having him wanting her, and her wanting him, but it wasnt as stressful as her having puppies would have been :eek:

I thought most rescues operated with a contract now? Doesn't that take care of the whole spayed/not spayed issue?

BlackCat2008

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

BlackCat2008

Slightly OT but do you know if they have any Basset Hounds at the moment ?

We were in touch with them before some time ago,I assume they kept our contact details,but we never heard any more.

I'll be down on Sat. and I'll Check my self for you, sorry about the OT business just that I work or am in contact with alot of shelters or charities all over the country, none but a few are willing to work with each other and the rest haven't a good word between them for each other, sorry. That conversation was just repation to my of a Charity I spook to just last week, these people do good work along with a few others who don't mouth and I wouldn't like any one not to donate because this is one of these shelters or charities trying to stop them getting funding, all shelters have a hard time now and again and they should be aloud ask for extra help if they need it. sorry I'm ranting just annoyed is all.

BlackCat2008

It is a shame that these shelters can put there trust in people to neuter them selfs even with a voucher, as they only end up being given back ready to have pups, I am aware the pounds don't neuter and this is mainly because of funding and the fact is if a dog is not adopted it's pts a waste of money as such but they really should do it them selfs once the adoption papers are signed, and not rely on jo soap too.

A contract should be writen up and inforced if they allow them to be taken before the age or if there over the age, they use to put all uneutered animals down in shelters, which has anly changed in the last few years.

I am hoping to take on a working dog soon and need a dog under 6 months so I can make sure they live well with cats and my first priority will be to neuter, all my animals here if under 6 months are tested for felv and then vac's, if they are rehomed they go with a contract to my vet to have the neutering done along with a felv and fiv test(cost the same for both and felv vac's are not 100%) and my vet tells me if they been for sure, I ask for the fiv to be done on the grounds that the cat remains indoors if it's positve (Thank god, touch wood all have been clear) then they no longer have me to answer to and are free to keep the cat.
If they are older then it's all done by me, and all leave with being told if anything should happen even ten yrs from now that you can't keep them or pay for vet bills (ie. they loss there job or it cost alot) they can give them back to me or I will help with the bills. Same go's for the dogs but for test unless their ill and it's always been that way here.

I'm only small time and struggle to keep up some times but neutering come's before the rest if I'm behind for any reason, with out more being born the rest is easy to keep up with but for those bigger than me it's a lot to take on and has a big effect on male behaver if they are not done meaning no one will want them. I have one male dog due to be done and his behaver is bad, so I don't know how shelters that don't neuter manage to re-rehome them. But again it all boils down to how they are funded too.

If the shelters would work with each other three or four togather could afford to have their own vet and premisses. It makes more since than having to pay out for full vet bills.

Sorry if you ever meet me you have my premission to kick me for ranting.

Vel

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

Are you sure you have your facts right on that suzy, I've met these people a few times and there priorities are the same as mine, Test, vac's and neuter, I don't believe for one minute they let a dog leave unentered, if they did they would have made the new owners prove they would neuter her and be sent back the bill or some form of prove to prove it.

I am also aware of how bitchy other shelters can be when one is getting help or publicity the other can't help but tear them down for there own benefit and this is something I hope to start a thread on when I have time to answer posts.

The reason I support this shelter is I have never heard a bad word from them putting any other shelter down, they my not be the most up to date shelter but me and others are helping them to get there. They love these animals and how they are handled when I've been around is with respect, they learn each animal and it's needs not shuff them in a cage and forget them, they have earned my respect from one rescue to another, the pet detective and empoyee's, Pete Weatherbryne, Tv'3 and more people come form all over Europe to volunteer and when I arrive down on Sat I will have at leased five Dane's to help me get the photo's I need to help them get re-homed.

And yes Vel I've heard these same words come from a shelter I was speaking to recently who I know do not support them and tried putting them down on radio because they managed to raise just a little more money that year than they did.

I am aware who comes on boards and other chat sites and I knew what I was getting into but your words will not take from the good work these people do or people have seen for them selfs

I can only say to anyone who wants to pull them down to pay them a visit and I promise you's in no time at all they will earn your respect.

Hi Blackcat,

I'd just like to say that I have no affiliation with any rescue and am not looking to 'pull them down'. I have first hand experience of how they went about rehoming a dog to a family member and it caused me concern so I posted about it. Suzy appears to have experience of a similar incident and someone else stated that they got a dog without a homecheck. I don't think anyone is bashing ASH, rather stating experiences. I would not begrudge anyone donating money to ASH if they feel they are the rescue they would like to support.

I do think it is a big problem if this is how they go about rehoming and I really would be interested to hear what ASH have to say about the matter. Are you affiliated with them and can you find out what their official policy is? I have no doubt that they provide great care for the animals while they are at the shelter and my family member was impressed with them but maybe they have taken on too much and need to step back and re-evaluate because in my opinion sending an un-neutered/spayed dog out or sending out a dog to an unchecked home is ultimately letting the dog down. People just often aren't what they seem. Imagine if that dog that Suzy speaks of had gone to someone who decided to breed from her and those pups in turn where breed from. That leaves us with potentially a lot more dogs needing help. Luckily that situation turned out ok but maybe others haven't and the end results are in the pounds right now.

And I'm sure ASH aren't the only ones who do it but this thread happens to be about them.

Can you see at all why I and others have a few concerns and I hope you don't still think I am 'out to get' ASH because I'm genuinely not.

BlackCat2008

I'm not trying to give out to anyone, but I do believe her facts are wrong Ash have a strong policy on neutering, they are over crowded yes but what are they meant to do when animals are abandoned on there door step or for that matter their nieghbours, all shelters become over crowded sometimes and I have identified one problom area that is not helpping them which is that there site is down and I will be down with them tomorrow to take the new photo's and hopefully get some one to fix the site so it can be accessed again. If they left a box of kittens or pups out side there door to starve they'd be the worst in the world, these animals have no were else to go if a shelter can't take them in unlike pounds and spca who can ship them from one shelter to another the single rescue's like Ash have no were else to send them to give them self some breeding room, they get hundreds left out side there doors or nieghbours each year they'd be the worst in the world if they did nothing and they died. I too become over crowded and there is no room at the inn when it comes to shelters taking them I couldn't leave them out side to die or hope some one else will take them, if all I can do is feed them till I work something out to neuter etc. then it's better than nothing for them. I rearly get a break and it takes every penny I have to get them sorted for re-homing, I'm lucky that I have a good reputation and people always come back to me for new pets or send family and friends. Some shelters are to big to have that options.

Your story is very familer to me and I know I'v heard it before and not long ago. I deal with a lot of shelters-Rescue's etc. and they all put one another down not just Ash I'll help out any shelther any way I can, the only policy I don't care for is dogs been brought over to other countries.

I will speak to them tomorrow about it and get back to you on it.

Sigma Force

ASH rehomed a half vaccinated pup with no home check to some half wits I used to know. These people were very deceptive ie the new owners and could convince people the world was flat.

Neeless to say the idiotic owners despite my warnings took the dog for walks and left the second vax too long and the dog ended up with a mild form of parvo.

The dog recovered.

However the dog was found dead by the dog minder while they were on holidays, owner suspected something was up with the dog before they went but didn't do anything about it. The dog (because it was a pup) messed up the house so lived outside tied to a kennel by a long chain.
Now the dog was a happy dog and other people kept taking the dog out for walks etc.

But really these people should of been homechecked and a follow up done.

BlackCat2008

I will try to get them on to chat to you's all I'm just concerned that some facts are not right. Ash vac's them themselves can't seem to see them let one go before either vac's. I don't know about home checks I'll have to ask.

Sigma Force

Well what I say is true total fact plenty of people to vouch but tbh don't want to go down that road just hope they are more careful and homecheck all homes.

BlackCat2008

Hi, everyone just a quick up date, as you's know I was down in Ash on Saturday and I tuck lots of pictures to put up on a new web site. this will take at leased a week to get sorted but I hope to get it to you's soon.

I think like myself you's will fall in love with these animals just as I did I meet each and everyone I photoed so I could fill you's in on them, they were all great.

Helena was away for the day so I got to speak to Remi and see the work he does first hand, I never seen anyone work so hard and yet with pations and kindness and such respect to each animal he works endlessly providing care and love that he himself says is needed too bring these frighten and abandoned animals around. I was amazed at how gentle and caring the staff and volunteers were.

To answer a few questions yes every female animal of age bore the scares of being neutered or still growing back the hair and he told me how his routine works and how each animal is vetted, tested, vac'd and neutered. He is very strict on making sure they go only to homes were they will become part of the family and live indoors with the family, while I was there he turned down someone on the phone who wanted to keep a dog out side in a kennel at night and told them he would not allow them to have a dog that would be out side all day and night. So I hope this puts to rest any questions on this subject.

I meet Helena at a dog training seminar on Sunday and managed a quick chat, she was their to learn all she could about training dogs so she could put it in to practise and help to re-home animals that are trained and well behaved in the hope they find their for ever home as she said a well behaved dog becomes a well loved dog and not a problem dog that ends up being returned time and time again. She said it's better to hold of re-homing for a time to help reajust a dogs behaver and give them the care they need to become a custom to a new way of looking at the world than to keep turning out dogs just to empty cages. They as we know stand a better chance at a forever home if trained and well behaved then sent as they came in.

I will be uploading the animals picture's for re homing and bring you news on the new arrivals and those in the ICU recovering form the hard live and looking forward to a new life. I didn't feel at all stressed when leaving as I do from most shelters I left feeling and knowing that the animals at ash were in the best place possible to recover and become good pets in the future.

I will bring you's more news on the new web site as soon as it is up and running at the end of the week.

They send a big big thank you to every one who has donated and hope you understand that every little helps and is appricated to the last and they will be putting up some notes on the new site to say hello to everyone.

I too want to say thank you to everyone one in helping to support them when I asked for your help and I can reassure you's they are the hardest working group I now and the animals are in the best hands possible, so I'll speak to you's all soon so you's can have a look at the new site.

BlackCat2008

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Hope you can see these and see he's just fine and the collie is a great little kennel mate to keepp him company. Think I got the hang of it this time.

Sigma Force

They do do great work never doubted that, and it's not an easy job they have either. Facing all sorts every day. Think they should be supported also of course.

However fact still remains they don't homecheck all animals and even if a home seems wonderful sometimes a follow up homecheck is needed or one or the other.

What is the point in going to the expense and time bringing an animal back to full health, making sure the dog is sociable, forking out for vaccinations (well in some cases fully vaccinating) and neutering and then not taking it that last step and homechecking.

The people with the dog I was talking about said the dog would be kept indoors but people lie that's why there are homechecks and follow ups.
Now the majority of people are usually genuine and no matter how well you do thinks and even with a homecheck things sometimes don't work out but I think all rescues need a basic standard which is looking after the animal first and then once the animal is ready for a home checking out the home.

Btw the home this dog went to was in the same County.

BlackCat2008

I did ask about this and the answer to this is no animal leaves unentered or vac'd I'm not saying your info is wrong but if this family can sell sand to the Arabs do you think it's possible the dog chewed some thing up and they were mad and started slagging of Ash for that instead of realising a dog will chew what it's not thought to chew (if you understand what I mean).

They do try their best to do home checks but again they need volunteers in every county to do this, they recently lost two employee's within a week of one another which left them sort handed and trying to do there best to make sure the animals go to the right home, even from the first phone call they are vetting people to see if they are suitable to adopt an animal, all I can say on this is they do try their best and it's always possible some one will slip through even with home checkers and follow ups, a family a cross the road from me got a cat from a well none charity they said they had a home check and a follow up and phone calls but the checker wasn't their when the cat was suffering with it's teeth and they were asking me what to do to help the cat with out having to pay out for vets, by the time they brought it to the vets it was to far gone with infection and had to be pts, I have a lot of respect for this charity and I know they try there best but the home checks have to stop at some stage and trust in the new owners has to be given, but it could be years later like in this case that the owner decides they just don't want the expence in having to care for an older animal and it ends up neglected.

It's not a perfect world and we do have to rely on human kindness to take care of these animals, I did a home check on a family that wanted two kittens and they were great had everything ready even signed up with a vet months before they found the right ones, they tuck them home and two weeks later I meet the mother in a shop and enquired after them to find that one had been eaten by two rottweilers living next door, the arrangement was they didn't let them out until they were neutered at six months, they were only 8 weeks old and I arrived at her door to take the other one that night, she just handed it over like she didn't care, a far cry from the nice woman I handed them over to in the first place, she neglected to mansion the dogs next door and I never heard nor seen them while I was their, I tell this in the hope that anyone else reading it has learned another question to ask on a home check and will never take anything for granted with people.

It's not always possible to be 100% and I'm only thinking now if we could get shelters and charities to name and shame these people on a site alot more of us could avoid these people and not be conned into thinking their perfect because they can speak magic words, I rely on me vets to help me with homes they are the ones that can fill me in on people who have been with them for years and have been willing to do anything to get there pets better, so far so good.

It's just not a perfect world, my oldest animal is a 26yr old cat who's been living with me (ruling the roast) for 18 yrs now and once I said she had a home for life I meant it but you and everyone else don't truly know me and if I'm just saying that to look good or seem like I'm doing the right thing and this is still a loop hole for those who do home checks who's to say whats behind the smiling eye's of any person, I do think a vet check should be done on people wanting to adopt as these records can be the answer to many questions like you say your last dog died of old age and when the vet is contacted he says never heard of them you can put up the flags.

All I can say is they do their best and I will be doing home checks up here in Dublin for them and hopefully find more around the country to help.

SuzyS1972

You cannot name and shame people on the internet.
There are data protection laws and laws governing libel and slander !

Simply not a concept that works - which is why people SHOULD be home checking for animals before they leave not naming and shaming the idiots who took them on.

Honestly if I had a few bob for the amount of times I have found out things at home checks that were detrimental to the dog and their well being I would be loaded !

Sigma Force

Just to be clear the people had no issue or problem with ASH the owner of the dog actually kept blaming the vet eventhough it was at the end of the day the owners fault they did not take the dog for the second vax.
They are the kind of people who would blame everyone and never take responsibility for their own actions.

To me I don't blame ASH just to make myself clear, it was at the end of the day the owners responsibility since ASH did tell them that the pup had only half of the vax and they did say the dog needed a second one and the owners were well aware as I myself kept reminding them.

Saying that I cannot sugar coat it the blunt fact remains the dog was half vaxd. when leaving and there are at least 2 other people who can vouch for this. Oh not to forget the vet who treated the dog as well if asked I'm sure has a record of what the dog was in for and why.

However I'm not trying to blame anyone here it's done now and that's that.

But I would like to think because of this that they should reconsider homechecking every home and ensuring all dogs are fully vaccinated before they leave. They are not the only place that doesn't fully vax every animal before the animal goes to it's new home so not trying make a huge issue or trying to dismiss the work they do.

If they want more information on what dog it was etc they can always contact me cavycare@eircom.net so as to keep harping on about it on here.

Not sure there is anything they can do anyway as the death of the dog wasn't determined only that they were told that because she had mild parvo her immune system could of been affected. Or could of been something else entirely. But that's beside the point because it was more of the fact the dog contracted parvo in the first place because it hadn't been fully vaxd not because of what happened after that.

Done now anyway.

Btw mods if I am posting controversial stuff won't take offence if posts is modified or removed.

BlackCat2008

I undertand I'm not trying to have an arguement, there are a few named charities on the boards and other chat sites I know for act that walked away left the animals to die never mind un vac'd, and they some how have managed to start up again, but that's another story.

But I'm sure if they did release a dog half vac'd then knowing which dog and to who should help them avoid them in the future at leased, I'll be back down in a few days and speak to them about giving you an e-mail on it. Thanks.

As regard to releasing names over the internet I was really thinking of a privete data base that could only be accessed by home checkers not for public use. There's plenty of ways to name and same with out the use of the net. Some how it's needed to be done, the same people who have had animals removed from them by dspca or a warden are still some how getting hold of animals days later ???

I've been having a little think about it and for now I will have to put it on the back burner until I have time to think it through properly but I'd love a place I could ring that could tell me yes or no to the home I was checking a bit like police record I sapose.

SuzyS1972

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

I undertand I'm not trying to have an arguement, there are a few named charities on the boards and other chat sites I know for act that walked away left the animals to die never mind un vac'd, and they some how have managed to start up again, but that's another story.

But I'm sure if they did release a dog half vac'd then knowing which dog and to who should help them avoid them in the future at leased, I'll be back down in a few days and speak to them about giving you an e-mail on it. Thanks.

As regard to releasing names over the internet I was really thinking of a privete data base that could only be accessed by home checkers not for public use. There's plenty of ways to name and same with out the use of the net. Some how it's needed to be done, the same people who have had animals removed from them by dspca or a warden are still some how getting hold of animals days later ???

I've been having a little think about it and for now I will have to put it on the back burner until I have time to think it through properly but I'd love a place I could ring that could tell me yes or no to the home I was checking a bit like police record I sapose.

Me too wouldnt it be great !

mollydolly271

hi black cat any update on the food drive ??

BlackCat2008

They are doing better thanks to the help of every one, at the time they had just received in over 120 kittens and any amount of dogs and were struggling to keep up as they ere still coming in strong and fast, thanks to every one's donations and pet shops that supported them and still are they are hanging in there. They managed to raise some funds at the pet expo as well which will help, the last time I spoke to them they told me their food bill alone for the last 12 months was 65k they only got a grant of 15k as far as I'm aware have to double check that and the rest has to be raised, last year they sustained severe damage to both kennels and cattery which set them back quiet a lot.

I know the Pet Detective is very good to them and has raised at least 12-15 k for them some of it coming from his own pocket, Branda's pet sent them down lots of food, she really is very good and miss no stars a young girl started out with the offer of a bag or two what ever she could afford and travelled for how th to bray with a huge amount of food to meet me, she rallyed her family and friends around and came up trumps, it a shame so many young people get put down for the bad and not high lighted for the good, she really is an inspiration of what you can achieve when you put your mind to it.

I haven't , given up on the food drive yet, just having a few communication problems and have to wait on date's to be given to me, but hopefully it will go ahead before or at Xmas.

I will contact every one as soon as I get the go ahead.