Limerick Tunnel Toll

Raiser

In 1999 Cork City saw the opening of and immediate benefits surrounding the availability of the Jack Lynch Tunnel. When it was suggested that the usage of the Tunnel should be conditional on the payment of a set toll. The Citizens and local Politicians of Cork were outraged.

This reaction was justified on the grounds that having already paid VRT, Motor Tax, VAT on each tank of petrol and VAT on every other Motor vehicle consumable from tyres to wiper blades, they were once more being asked to put their hands back into their increasingly emptied pockets and hand over whatever remnant of cash they might have had left - and this is before even considering that they still had the bulk of it to pay as income tax :eek:

Now despite our Government siphoning off our cash at every turn and using every excuse to extract more revenue from our bank accounts are proposing to build the Limerick Tunnel by a bizarre process known as Public Private Partnership. Sounds official, catchy in the marketing sense and good for me and you doesn't it? [?] Haven't we learned yet that when Politicians meet with wealthy investors in Ireland morality, decency and good practice gets left by the wayside ???

But:

Public Private Partnership - What does that really mean?
Who are the "Private" individuals here?
Why are they building Tunnels for us?
Is it because they want to cut our journey times?
- Or is the "cut" for themselves?

The truth is that if you are an extremely wealthy individual it makes a lot of sense to invest some initial sum of money in a project such as this in return for a guaranteed massive return on your token investment year after year after year. The "Private" portion of this moronic so called "Partnership" is just the super-rich getting richer at the expense of the average John or Jane Smith and their family.

The "Public" part of this mess is just another stealth tax - another opportunity to watch public finances disappear like water into sand while we wait for the Tribunal ten years later [and guess who pays for that?]

- To the credit of the people of Cork a sense of fairness, common sense and the will to speak out against injustice won the day and the Tunnel is now almost 10 years working for the commuter and not as a sly taxation device which also happens to fill the bank accounts of some unnamed group of extremely wealthy private investors.

So should the people of Limerick just sit back and accept this ridiculous, cynical, unjust and blatantly profiteering proposal?

I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way, but sometimes it is not apparent - Please take a minute to let the public at large know how you feel about this issue.

1huge1

While I hate the thought of a toll, I hate the thought even more of not having a tunnel and I believe that the vast majority of people would be willing to pay the toll which I suppose is the problem in itself.

Pshan

Dont the people of Cork have a toll on the Fermoy to Cork road that leads to the tunnel?

bazz26

Pshan wrote: »

Dont the people of Cork have a toll on the Fermoy to Cork road that leads to the tunnel?

You do not have to pay a toll to use the JL tunnel though.

Amazotheamazing

Pshan wrote: »

Dont the people of Cork have a toll on the Fermoy to Cork road that leads to the tunnel?

Yes they do.

source

Pshan wrote: »

Dont the people of Cork have a toll on the Fermoy to Cork road that leads to the tunnel?

yes they do, but that's for the mammoth bridge that was built over the River Blackwater and not the tunnel.

ninty9er

You don't have to use either tunnel. People inevitably will. BTW there is no toll in the tunnel itself, just on the approach from either side if you wish to use it.

If you want to voice your opposition organise a campaign not to use it....but if enough people use it to pay the day to day operational costs that'll be a wasted exercise. (i.e you're pissing against the wind)

As already pointed out...these rich people get breaks to build us stuff we wouldn't have if they didn't build it. They're not going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts and I doubt the whingers and moaners that drag this great nation down would be willing to pay and extra 1% tax never mind 4 or 5% it would cost to sustain what these people have invested over the last 20 years.

It's activity we want, so to encourage it, these people have to be given breaks.

Motor Tax has no direct link to national roads, just local roads.

Liam Byrne

It's something I've thought about myself, particularly with the "Irish" government using OUR money to buy out the Dublin toll bridge....yeah, anyone using it will still need to pay a toll, but the whole country is paying to allow the Dubs to make their journeys faster!

That's annoying.

On the other hand, if you're stuck in traffic for 30 mins or more going through town, how much petrol do you use and what could you have used that 30 minutes for ?

So as long as the toll is reasonable in comparison to that, and doesn't rise, then fair enough (I think!)

Pshan

bazz26 wrote: »

You do not have to pay a toll to use the JL tunnel though.

foinse wrote: »

yes they do, but that's for the mammoth bridge that was built over the River Blackwater and not the tunnel.

So the principle of tolling is ok but not tolling tunnels?

Off peak times the Condell road will do me fine and during heavy traffic I have no difficulty paying a toll to get to the other side of the city quicker.

maggie797

its simple really

if you are that unhappy the toll at the tunnel then dont use it.

we are managing to get across limerick now without a tunnel, so as far as I am concerned the tunnel is offering a choice and like any choices, it is up to the individual.

bazz26

Pshan wrote: »

So the principle of tolling is ok but not tolling tunnels?

The point I was making is that you can use the Jack Lynch tunnel without having to pay a toll to do so.

Raiser

Pshan wrote: »

So the principle of tolling is ok but not tolling tunnels?

Off peak times the Condell road will do me fine and during heavy traffic I have no difficulty paying a toll to get to the other side of the city quicker.

This is not a personal comment attacking you Pshan - but to be honest it worries me that people in general are willing to forgo principles and ignore the notion of right and wrong just like that.

- Personally I'd prefer to push my car down the Dock Rd. and then swim across the Shannon than to be taxed and stealth taxed for the 19th over time in order to use a basic unit of transport infrastructure that I've already paid for - many times over :mad:


Also [to whoever mentioned this] what is all this talk about tolls on the Jack Lynch Tunnel? Lets avoid confusion here and be very clear - there are no tolls, taxes, penalties, charges, levies or daylight robbery on entry to, or exit from the Jack Lynch Tunnel. This is because the people of Cork had some backbone and stuck by their principles - why can't we do the same for once..... ?

Pshan

Raiser wrote: »

This is not a personal comment attacking you Pshan - but to be honest it worries me that people in general are willing to forgo principles and ignore the notion of right and wrong just like that.

- Personally I'd prefer to push my car down the Dock Rd. and then swim across the Shannon than to be taxed and stealth taxed for the 19th over time in order to use a basic unit of transport infrastructure that I've already paid for - many times over :mad:


Also what is all this talk about tolls on the Jack Lynch Tunnel? Lets avoid confusion here and be very clear - there are no tolls, taxes, penalties, charges, levies or daylight robbery on entry to, or exit from the Jack Lynch Tunnel. This is because the people of Cork had some backbone and stuck by their principles - why can't we do the same for once..... ?

Not taking it personally - I never siad the JL tunnel was tolled.

Why should people from the Mid-West be exempt from Tolls? There are a number of roads, bridges and tunnels that are tolled in Ireland what makes the Shannon Tunnel any different?

Raiser

Pshan wrote: »

Not taking it personally - I never siad the JL tunnel was tolled.

Why should people from the Mid-West be exempt from Tolls? There are a number of roads, bridges and tunnels that are tolled in Ireland what makes the Shannon Tunnel any different?

I didn't actually mean you regarding the JLT toll - but I've edited the post 'cause it wasn't too clear - apologies......

- I've never paid a toll in this Country and I don't see why I should have to......Let them collect tax revenue and build roads.....What's next tolls at the school gates so our kids have to pay €3 a day to sit in a rat-holed, leaking Prefab? Maybe theres water charges on the way - God knows we're not an Island surrounded by that wet stuff with a constant drip-feed from above :rolleyes:

Is the stark precedent of the toll-free JLT toll not a lesson, example and illustration of common sense and local politics versus accepting crap decisions from the people who managed the unbelievable Limerick Main Drainage fiasco or the 15yr wait for a Skate Park, or who built apartments on the Peoples Park or who gave planning permission to McInerney's Builders et al for 10,000 semi-detached boxes without a child's swing or a slide or even a bus stop with an overhead structure to protect one from the rain - commonly known in civilised countries as a Bus Shelter ? ? ??? ???? [?]

- Why is any of this acceptable? Where are your standards? Do you not deserve any respect?

knipex

Raiser wrote: »

This is not a personal comment attacking you Pshan - but to be honest it worries me that people in general are willing to forgo principles and ignore the notion of right and wrong just like that.

- Personally I'd prefer to push my car down the Dock Rd. and then swim across the Shannon than to be taxed and stealth taxed for the 19th over time in order to use a basic unit of transport infrastructure that I've already paid for - many times over :mad:

No one is forcing you to pay the toll. You are free to continue to use the condell road or any of the existing bridges for that matter.


The tunnel was never going to built without private investment and no individual or group of individuals were going to invest hundreds of million of euros without a return on their investment.

What happened in Cork happened along time ago in a different Ireland. Since then tolls have become more common. I agree that the tax take from the motorist should be used to maintain and build our road network but its not, it never has and never will be.

Personally I will use the tunnel and I will pay for it.

Hansel

I hope that as many people as possible will use the tunnell, it'll take an awful lot of cars off of my normal route to work, which will increase my travelling time, toll free.

Raiser

knipex wrote: »

<SNIPPED>....I agree that the tax take from the motorist should be used to maintain and build our road network but its not, it never has and never will be.

Personally I will use the tunnel and I will pay for it.

The problem is though that the tax take is not being spent on our:

Roads

Schools

Hospitals

Public Transport

I bet you're also happy to dodge potholes, send your child to a third-world school house, combat MRSA from your hospital corridor trolley and pay €60 one way to take a dilapidated train around any of Ireland 4 remaining train routes.

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic

source

Pshan wrote: »

So the principle of tolling is ok but not tolling tunnels?

I never said I agreed with tolling, I merely pointed out that the toll on the M8 is to pay for the bridge and not the tunnel.

Pshan

foinse wrote: »

I never said I agreed with tolling, I merely pointed out that the toll on the M8 is to pay for the bridge and not the tunnel.

I never said the toll was to pay for anything in particular, I just pointed out the road from Fermoy to Cork was tolled.

source

Pshan wrote: »

I never said the toll was to pay for anything in particular, I just pointed out the road from Fermoy to Cork was tolled.

Originally Posted by Pshan View Post
So the principle of tolling is ok but not tolling tunnels?

.

podge79

Are PPP’s not a result of the National Development Plans? That the Government wants to build so many roads, schools, hospitals etc and at the same time that they would not be able to afford to build them at the same time because of the cost and that the fact that with the onward eastward expansion of the EU that money pot is drying up.

I think the European Structural/Cohesion Fund funded the Jack Lynch Tunnel - so our taxes did not pay substancially for it, which is probably why its not tolled, and not because of local opposition. Tolling the Limerick Tunnel was probably the only way of getting anyone interested to do the job – no private investors are going to invest millions building a road and a tunnel without the prospect of a return on their investment - especially at the height of the construction boom when they were looking for investors. In the end it all comes down to the kind of PPP it is....

topper75

Raiser wrote: »

This is because the people of Cork had some backbone and stuck by their principles - why can't we do the same for once..... ?

Cos Limerick City has more apathetic apolitical ignoramuses per capita than other city in Ireland. Witness the Shannon-Heathrow 'protest'; a couple of hundred came out.

I am watching the Dell situation very closely i.e. what will it take for Limerick people and politicians before they cry No More? We are being downgraded steadily into oblivion. No leadership is stepping forward in the city. And even if they did, what ground support would they receive only apathy. I fear Limerick will only get what it deserves while Galway and Cork progress at our expense.

No northern ring road (badly needed - ask anyone in Corbally) will go around this town either to ensure healthy toll collection in the tunnel. No politician has to sit in those jams.

Amazotheamazing

topper75 wrote: »

Cos Limerick City has more apathetic apolitical ignoramuses per capita than other city in Ireland. Witness the Shannon-Heathrow 'protest'; a couple of hundred came out.

I am watching the Dell situation very closely i.e. what will it take for Limerick people and politicians before they cry No More? We are being downgraded steadily into oblivion. No leadership is stepping forward in the city. And even if they did, what ground support would they receive only apathy. I fear Limerick will only get what it deserves while Galway and Cork progress at our expense.

No northern ring road (badly needed - ask anyone in Corbally) will go around this town either to ensure healthy toll collection in the tunnel. No politician has to sit in those jams.

It's our own fault for voting in such heavy hitters like Willie O'Dea and Peter the Invisible man Power. FF have let this region down in a big way over the last 30 years.

Raiser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's our own fault for voting in such heavy hitters like Willie O'Dea and Peter the Invisible man Power. FF have let this region down in a big way over the last 30 years.

Hey! Be fair, according to this pre-election news story from the Limerick Post Peter Power is working hard to bring the people of Limerick this:



Story here:http://www.limerickpost.ie/dailynews.elive?id=7814&category=Daily-Thu

You wouldn't be seen out and about too often yourself if you were busy bringing the people of Limerick a light rail transit system years ahead of the implementation of a viable public bus network in the City.

- Every time I see traffic cones scattered about or meet builders on the Street I always stop to ask them if they're working on Railroad Pete's super mega promise.......

Liam Byrne

Hansel wrote: »

I hope that as many people as possible will use the tunnell, it'll take an awful lot of cars off of my normal route to work, which will increase my travelling time, toll free.

:eek: I can only assume that you meant "decrease" ??