Stephen Ireland Open Door or Slam it Shut! [mod warning post #645 / #713]

Bandit12

PCros wrote: »

As Duffer said in that interview "lets just get on with it". Forget about him, hes a waste of space and time.

Is right.

enda1

Are you trying to imply that I neither know nor respect the history of the game?

So how do you respect the game's history?
Surely the greatest way to "respect" the history of the game is to play it to the best of your ability and dedicate your professional life to it, no?

I never said Stephen is in the list of the greatest footballers the world has ever seen. For you to be in that list I believe you need to excel both for club and country.

Stephen was average for both so decided to become good at one.

BaZmO*

God, this is like a guy that won't accept that his girlfriend has left him. Get over it lads, he's not coming back and dwelling on it only distracts from the fact that we are actually doing quite well at present.

Deedsie

I would much prefer to see Andy Reid back in the international Set up. He is no longer an Irish International. He never will be one again.

I am glad the situation is over. We are doing ok without him. Lets just shout on the team and hope they get the three points against Cyprus.

stovelid

You know, for a team that supposedly can't function with Stephen Ireland, we're not doing too badly at the moment.

Let it lie.

Pro. F

enda1 wrote: »

Why is somebody greedy for wanting to get paid for their job out of interest?

I wouldn't say wanting to get paid for your job is greedy.

I would say that refusing to make a small sacrifice (playing some extra football) for your country is selfish. But we can't really know why SH doesn't want to play for Ireland. It could be that he is selfish (ie doesn't want the hassle of playing extra football) or it could be that he has some valid personal reasons eg he feels hurt by the hounding by the press after what happened to him and his girlfriend if that story is true.

Either way, I'm going to be doing my best to forget that he's Irish for now because it's so frustrating to not have him playing for us.

Door closed until after the world cup.

dereko1969

Every employer or sporting body has a duty of care to their employees or people playing for them - my understanding is that the FAI didn't provide a safe or enjoyable environment for Stephen Ireland and that he felt bullied by the other players, if any of you were working for someone that allowed that to continue unquestioned how would you react?

I am a city supporter and I think he's a great player and would much prefer him to be playing for Ireland as well and I'm surprised that he doesn't seem to be accepting whatever assurances Trap and Brady have given him about player behaviour but it is his decision and he has made it clear so let's move on.

deisedude

dereko1969 wrote: »

Every employer or sporting body has a duty of care to their employees or people playing for them - my understanding is that the FAI didn't provide a safe or enjoyable environment for Stephen Ireland and that he felt bullied by the other players, if any of you were working for someone that allowed that to continue unquestioned how would you react?

I am a city supporter and I think he's a great player and would much prefer him to be playing for Ireland as well and I'm surprised that he doesn't seem to be accepting whatever assurances Trap and Brady have given him about player behaviour but it is his decision and he has made it clear so let's move on.

Ya the other players killed his gran apparently.:rolleyes:

deisedude

stovelid wrote: »

You know, for a team that supposedly can't function with Stephen Ireland, we're not doing too badly at the moment.

Let it lie.

I'd agree with this 100%. Why would you want a player who clearly doesnt give a fcuk anyway? He is hardly likely to go tracking back if thats his mentality. Give me Glenn Whelan anyday

Johnny Utah

dereko1969 wrote: »

Every employer or sporting body has a duty of care to their employees or people playing for them - my understanding is that the FAI didn't provide a safe or enjoyable environment for Stephen Ireland and that he felt bullied by the other players, if any of you were working for someone that allowed that to continue unquestioned how would you react?

I am a city supporter and I think he's a great player and would much prefer him to be playing for Ireland as well and I'm surprised that he doesn't seem to be accepting whatever assurances Trap and Brady have given him about player behaviour but it is his decision and he has made it clear so let's move on.

IMO, this is precisely the reason why S Ireland is playing for his country. It's pretty obvious that he was bullied by other players in the squad, and that's not on, especially for a young lad like Stephen Ireland just breaking into the squad (he was 20/21 iirc when he left the Irish squad). I think deep down, he does want to play for his country, but the problem he has is that he's in a very difficult position right now; if he returns, he risks more bullying/awkward moments with teammates, and if he doesn't return, some gob****es will label him a traitor. No-win situation really.

If it turns out he was in fact bullied, then the other players, the management, and the FAI should take a lot of blame for this situation.

dogpile

Johnny Utah wrote: »

IMO, this is precisely the reason why S Ireland is playing for his country. It's pretty obvious that he was bullied by other players in the squad, and that's not on, especially for a young lad like Stephen Ireland just breaking into the squad (he was 20/21 iirc when he left the Irish squad). I think deep down, he does want to play for his country, but the problem he has is that he's in a very difficult position right now; if he returns, he risks more bullying/awkward moments with teammates, and if he doesn't return, some gob****es will label him a traitor. No-win situation really.

If it turns out he was in fact bullied, then the other players, the management, and the FAI should take a lot of blame for this situation.

COBBLERS!!..he's no problem playing with Given and until recently Dunne week in week out.

stick 45 grand in his sky rocket to turn up and see how much "bullying" affects him..

Bandit12

Just finished watching the 9 o'clock news there and to see the Irish team come home from the world transplant games in Australia with a big smile on their faces and everyone of them proud as punch to represent their country. Now compare that to an individual like Stephen Ireland who does'nt give two hoots about his country. I'm actually happy we will never see him in an Irish shirt again.

enda1

Bandit12 wrote: »

Just finished watching the 9 o'clock news there and to see the Irish team come home from the world transplant games in Australia with a big smile on their faces and everyone of them proud as punch to represent their country. Now compare that to an individual like Stephen Ireland who does'nt give two hoots about his country. I'm actually happy we will never see him in an Irish shirt again.

Hmmm

Nothing to do with the big free trip to Australia then?

Bandit12

enda1 wrote: »

Hmmm

Nothing to do with the big free trip to Australia then?

Doubt it.

Peyton Manning

Bandit12 wrote: »

Just finished watching the 9 o'clock news there and to see the Irish team come home from the world transplant games in Australia with a big smile on their faces and everyone of them proud as punch to represent their country. Now compare that to an individual like Stephen Ireland who does'nt give two hoots about his country. I'm actually happy we will never see him in an Irish shirt again.

Did Stephen Ireland withdraw from the Irish transplant soccer team too then?

bullpost

It's just occurred to me that if the bullying thing is true, then all those photos we are seeing lately of him working out with martial artists could be interpreted as - Try to bully me again and I'll kick seven shades of ****e out of ye?

ShamoBuc

With a bit of luck, they wouldn't have him either!!

Mr.Nice Guy

Reading some of the daft comments on this thread I don't blame him for not coming back tbh.

Sherifu

rte.ie wrote:

Giovanni Trapattoni has given up waiting for Stephen Ireland to rejoin his country's World Cup qualification campaign, but he believes that the 23-year-old midfielder will eventually regret his decision.

Manchester City star Ireland declared in a Sunday newspaper that his choice to stop representing his country two years ago felt like 'the best decision he had ever made.'

Trapattoni now reckons that it is futile trying to bring him back in the short term.

'I know the moment I can call him and look for him and meet him, but not now, not now,' said Trapattoni in the Irish Independent.

'Maybe in the future, if I continue this job with Ireland, I will try again. My door is not closed.

'It's a pity because I am sure, when he is old, he can think about it and reflect upon it and say, "Why?" He will regret it. It's a pity. He is still young, but he won't know until the future, when he is an old man, what he is missing at this moment.'

Trapattoni, speaking in Malahide as Ireland prepare for Saturday's vital World Cup qualifier against Cyprus, suggested - in jest - that the player could emulate the likes of Mike Tyson and Michael Schumacher in returning to the pinnacle of his sport in the future.

The Irish manager also stated his belief that the media saturation regarding the issue is not helpful.

'The more you talk about it, the worse it is,' he suggested. 'He will read what I say in the paper and he closes up like a hedgehog. For me, it's not closed. I hope something can happen in the future. In other categories, the great champions, they go and they come back.'

'A great example is Schumacher, and Tyson. Ok, maybe for money. Schumacher not for money. Tyson? Maybe.'

Trapattoni had more immediate problems in that both of his favoured centre-halves, Richard Dunne and Sean St Ledger, missed training yesterday.

Dunne was locked in negotiations about his proposed transfer to Aston Villa and St Ledger was forced to sit out the session with a knee injury.

Trapattoni hopes that they will be available to train today as well as Caleb Folan, who is also carrying a minor injury problem.

Trap also revealed that the motivation for revenge for the 5-2 humiliation in Nicosia three years ago can be a positive force ahead of the game.

'I think if you are proud, it is,' he said. 'For our morale and trust, I think that the 5-2 is a great motivation.'

link

BaZmO*

So there you go. That's it put to bed.

Stephen Ireland's position: Best decision he has ever made quitting international football. And no intention to return in the short term.

Trapattoni's position: Door is closed for this campaign, but he doesn't rule out Ireland returning in the future if he's still in charge. Also reckons that constant media speculation doesn't help.

Johnny Utah

dogpile wrote: »

COBBLERS!!..he's no problem playing with Given and until recently Dunne week in week out.

stick 45 grand in his sky rocket to turn up and see how much "bullying" affects him..

I think he had problems with other players in the squad; Hunt, Robbie Keane, and fcukin Paul McShane.

Bandit12 wrote: »

Just finished watching the 9 o'clock news there and to see the Irish team come home from the world transplant games in Australia with a big smile on their faces and everyone of them proud as punch to represent their country. Now compare that to an individual like Stephen Ireland who does'nt give two hoots about his country. I'm actually happy we will never see him in an Irish shirt again.

How do you know he doesn't want to represent his country? Can you say for certain that no bullying took place?

IMO he would like to play for the Irish team, but he can't because he fears he would be the subject of juvenile bullying again. Shame really because we could desperately do with a player of Stephen Ireland's class.

ADTR

BaZmO* wrote: »

So there you go. That's it put to bed.

Stephen Ireland's position: Best decision he has ever made quitting international football. And no intention to return in the short term.

Trapattoni's position: Door is closed for this campaign, but he doesn't rule out Ireland returning in the future if he's still in charge. Also reckons that constant media speculation doesn't help.

Yep. End of story.

RGDATA!

Johnny Utah wrote: »

How do you know he doesn't want to represent his country? Can you say for certain that no bullying took place?

It doesn't look like anyone can say anything for certain - but the evidence seems a lot clearer that he doesn't want to represent his country than he was bullied in fairness.

We're all aware of the rumours he was "bullied" about his (IMO) ridiculous hair-piece. (Inverted commas around bullied here because I think you have to have a sensible definition of bullying which distinguishes between a grown man in a professional football team dynamic and, say, a child in school).

However, as far as I recall he has denied that this had anything to do with his quitting the side, and the likes have Hunt have denied he was bullied. You're saying it's pretty obvious he was bullied, maybe you know more than me.

premierstone

Johnny Utah wrote: »

MO he would like to play for the Irish team, but he can't because he fears he would be the subject of juvenile bullying again. Shame really because we could desperately do with a player of Stephen Ireland's class.

Yes the ''alleged'' bullying or as any other sane person might call ''banter'' was juvenile whereas Stephen Irelands reaction and subsequent lack of action have been the height of maturity :rolleyes:

Johnny Utah

RGDATA! wrote: »

It doesn't look like anyone can say anything for certain - but the evidence seems a lot clearer that he doesn't want to represent his country than he was bullied in fairness.

We're all aware of the rumours he was "bullied" about his (IMO) ridiculous hair-piece. (Inverted commas around bullied here because I think you have to have a sensible definition of bullying which distinguishes between a grown man in a professional football team dynamic and, say, a child in school).

However, as far as I recall he has denied that this had anything to do with his quitting the side, and the likes have Hunt have denied he was bullied. You're saying it's pretty obvious he was bullied, maybe you know more than me.

No, I don't have any inside info; I'm just able to see the situation for what it is. There's no smoke without fire!

Obviously he's going to deny being bullied because otherwise it's going to open up the whole affair again, and maybe he doesn't want the media to know the full details of the incident. Put yourself in his shoes: if he admits that he was bullied, then he gets taunted/slagged about it for the rest of his playing days. Admitting that he was bullied and that he was affected by it would only bring him more grief. He would get a lot more abuse from fans when he plays for City, and if he returned for Ireland, he would probably get a lot more abuse from a sizeable minority of Irish fans (see numerous examples in this thread for instance).

Also, of course, Hunt etc have denied any bullying allegations. You hardly expect any of them to come out and say- "yeah I was acting the pr1ck, sorry about that, but it was funny at the time".

premierstone wrote: »

Yes the ''alleged'' bullying or as any other sane person might call ''banter'' was juvenile whereas Stephen Irelands reaction and subsequent lack of action have been the height of maturity :rolleyes:

You call that "banter"?

I suppose it would also be 'banter' if a few players grabbed Andy Reid, held him on the ground, and started poking him in the belly whilst shouting "hey tubby, lose some weight, tubby". You know, it might get a bit tiresome after a while.

deisedude

Johnny Utah wrote: »

No, I don't have any inside info; I'm just able to see the situation for what it is. There's no smoke without fire!

Obviously he's going to deny being bullied because otherwise it's going to open up the whole affair again, and maybe he doesn't want the media to know the full details of the incident. Put yourself in his shoes: if he admits that he was bullied, then he gets taunted/slagged about it for the rest of his playing days. Admitting that he was bullied and that he was affected by it would only bring him more grief. He would get a lot more abuse from fans when he plays for City, and if he returned for Ireland, he would probably get a lot more abuse from a sizeable minority of Irish fans (see numerous examples in this thread for instance).

Also, of course, Hunt etc have denied any bullying allegations. You hardly expect any of them to come out and say- "yeah I was acting the pr1ck, sorry about that, but it was funny at the time".

You call that "banter"?

I suppose it would also be 'banter' if a few players grabbed Andy Reid, held him on the ground, and started poking him in the belly whilst shouting "hey tubby, lose some weight, tubby". You know, it might get a bit tiresome after a while.

Face the facts he is as mad as a box of frogs and was looking for an easy out because he doesn't want to play for his country. He did it at underage level as well.

premierstone

Johnny Utah wrote: »

You call that "banter"?

I suppose it would also be 'banter' if a few players grabbed Andy Reid, held him on the ground, and started poking him in the belly whilst shouting "hey tubby, lose some weight, tubby". You know, it might get a bit tiresome after a while.

Oh so know it has gone from ''alleged bullying'' to fact, and we have what to base this on oh yes the word of a proven liar with multiple grannies

stovelid

I've always found it a little strange that somebody that came up through dressing rooms from an early age would be that affected by banter - even of the semi-malicious variety.

There is also the fact that it's not one, but a few managers, he has fallen out with down the years.

That said: nobody really knows what went on so a lot of this is just conjecture. At this stage, the guy will probably come back just to get people off his back.

Johnny Utah

deisedude wrote: »

Face the facts he is as mad as a box of frogs and was looking for an easy out because he doesn't want to play for his country. He did it at underage level as well.

In Your Opinion.

premierstone

deisedude wrote: »

Face the facts he is as mad as a box of frogs and was looking for an easy out because he doesn't want to play for his country. He did it at underage level as well.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

In Your Opinion.

All the evidence would certainly seem to point to that conclusion and not just the club over country scenario there has been planty of other instances to suggest he is more than a little strange.

BaZmO*

stovelid wrote: »

I've always found it a little strange that somebody that came up through dressing rooms from an early age would be that affected by banter - even of the semi-malicious variety.

Yeah, any group sport has vicious banter. I was surprised when I first heard about the whole bullying scenario.

stovelid wrote: »

There is also the fact that it's not one, but a few managers, he has fallen out with down the years.

Added to the fact that he's told some whopping big porkies. He hasn't helped his own case.

stovelid wrote: »

That said: nobody really knows what went on so a lot of this is just conjecture. At this stage, the guy will probably come back just to get people off his back.

I suppose it'll be 5-10 years until we find out what really happened when some players start to release their autobiographies.

Fuhrer

Xavi6 wrote: »

When he came back I was glad in a way because yes he was our best player and no team should ever be without their best players, especially in a tournament as big as the World Cup.

Watch where you are going, you almost stepped on my feet with your frantic back tracking.

deisedude

Johnny Utah wrote: »

In Your Opinion.

The evidence thus far that Stephen Ireland is mental

1) Killed his gran

2) Dodgy hair plugs to cover up his baldness

3) Superman undies

4)Dodgiest tatoo decision ever

5) His "manly" jeep

6) Argues with his own shadow

dogpile

deisedude wrote: »

Face the facts he is as mad as a box of frogs and was looking for an easy out because he doesn't want to play for his country. He did it at underage level as well.

In the BBC interview he gave at the end of last season he said "things didn't feel right for a long time"......what things?? you fruit basket, does he realise how privaleged he is in life(unfortunate about the hair but **** happens)

anonymous_joe

premierstone wrote: »

Yes the ''alleged'' bullying or as any other sane person might call ''banter'' was juvenile whereas Stephen Irelands reaction and subsequent lack of action have been the height of maturity :rolleyes:

In fairness now, some people can take a slagging, and some can't. It doesn't make them a worse person if they don't like having the píss ripped out of them constantly.

I do know that people I've met and even gone out with who weren't Irish were sometimes a tad taken aback by the incessant 'banter' Irish people engage in.

As for him being childish, I don't know that he was childish. If he was being bullied, he refused to take it anymore, and went and left. That takes courage actually.

He's a decent player, and has done well for City. I think he's a bit overrated, but he's definitely one of Ireland's most talented. I'd like to see him back because we don't have anyone as good as him in that position, I don't really give a fcuk about his personality or his history. There've been plenty of players over the years for Ireland I've liked, some I haven't and the vast majority of them I really didn't care much about other than that they were playing for us.

premierstone

deisedude wrote: »

The evidence thus far that Stephen Ireland is mental

1) Killed his gran

Two of them but sure who's counting

RGDATA!

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Also, of course, Hunt etc have denied any bullying allegations. You hardly expect any of them to come out and say- "yeah I was acting the pr1ck, sorry about that, but it was funny at the time".

yeah, i would expect that to be honest. if not in public, at least to Ireland himself if that is genuinely the reason he's staying away. In that case I would expect the players there to acknowledge that they hadn't meant to rile him to the point where he could no longer go on playing for his country. I would expect them to apologise and guarantee that it would all be forgotten about if he came back to the camp, and no recriminations. And after that, it would take one goal or assist on the field to more or less permanently put it to bed in most peoples minds.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

You call that "banter"?

I suppose it would also be 'banter' if a few players grabbed Andy Reid, held him on the ground, and started poking him in the belly whilst shouting "hey tubby, lose some weight, tubby". You know, it might get a bit tiresome after a while.

see again, unless you know something the rest of us don't, you're going on heresay. and even in the above scenario - would that become tiresome? yes. would it be grounds to lie about the death of two grandparents and quit international football forever despite the will of everyone else to get you back and put it in the past?

RGDATA!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In fairness now, some people can take a slagging, and some can't. It doesn't make them a worse person if they don't like having the píss ripped out of them constantly.

I do know that people I've met and even gone out with who weren't Irish were sometimes a tad taken aback by the incessant 'banter' Irish people engage in.

As for him being childish, I don't know that he was childish. If he was being bullied, he refused to take it anymore, and went and left. That takes courage actually.

Actually agree with most of this. Some people are more sensitive than others. Personally, if in the course of "banter" I discover my target is a sensitive soul, then I will lay off. I don't know about the last part - how much courage it took to take the exit route he did, assuming it was all about bullying etc.

However, it would be better for him going forward if he develops a thicker skin if he intends to get through a career in professional football without severe psychological scarring, what with all the abuse you expect to get from opposition players, fans, your own team mates and manager, the press ETC ETC

In fact he already showed signs last year of having copped himself on and reacted to the supposed basis of the supposed bullying by getting rid of his ridiculous thatch and shaving his head. If he would continue to tackle his "problems" head on liek that rather than running away from them he'd probably be happier for it in the long run

RGDATA!

all that said, i'm very tempted to go kick boxing on saturday evening, i suspect it might be more fun than the game :eek:

Xavi6

Fuhrer wrote: »

Watch where you are going, you almost stepped on my feet with your frantic back tracking.

If only you had waited a week you'd have quoted that post on its one year anniversary.

gosplan

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I think he had problems with other players in the squad; Hunt, Robbie Keane, and fcukin Paul McShane.

How do you know he doesn't want to represent his country? Can you say for certain that no bullying took place?

IMO he would like to play for the Irish team, but he can't because he fears he would be the subject of juvenile bullying again. Shame really because we could desperately do with a player of Stephen Ireland's class.

What???????? Haven't said this for a while but ROFL!!!!!

Stephen Ireland went to Man City as a kid. Sometime around 2001/2002 when he was somewhere around 15/16 he stopped playing for Brian Kerr's youth team after a bust up (a story which there's no doubt two versions of).

Afterwards, when Kerr was manager of the national team and Stephen Ireland was doing well at Manchester, he refused to play for Kerr again.

He came back under Staunton but was clearly unhappy being involved as evidenced by the whole 'grannygate' thing.

Now the door has been open to come back for some time. Ireland have a world class manager and we're doing pretty well in the qualifying.

Stephen Ireland is choosing as he has always chosen for most of his footballing career not to play for his country.

I've no problem with that, it's his decision. I'd rather he played but if he's not into it, then fair enough.

But to suggest that this decision involves Keane or McShane or anyone bar Stephen Ireland himself, who in the last 7 years has been involved in the Irish setup for in a handful of matches (and even then he fabricated a way out of it), is simply a joke.

The lad went to City as a teenager, clearly got very involved with the place and just isn't motivated now by playing for anyone else. Fair enough but this suggestion of bullying is ridiculous.

.....unless Kerr bullied him too, which would explain the kickboxing I suppose.


Can we close this thread sometime soon please?

Shane St.

"Retiring still feels like the best decision I ever made. It gives me eight more days at Glossop for a start. I've already made plans to spend the international break training."
Slam it shut I say

ShamoBuc

Slam the door shut, then nail it shut! IF we qualify - big if - he can enjoy a Summer off while his Country and fellow City teamates enjoy the big finals. The feeling of regret would hopefully be running through his veins, if not, it will in ten or fifteen years, when his training will be over and all he will have left will be memories - of a competition he could have played in, were he man enough, mature enough ... etc whatever his reason is, in time I don't think it will seem as good as it does now, but by then of course it will be too late. Tough!

Brian Capture

Stephen Ireland = spa

dogpile

blah blah blah...more excuses!


the guy is a scumbag plain and simple

Link?

35notout

I doubt he will ever be asked to play under Traps - prob just his childish way of thinking he's had the last word and "won" the arguement (whatever it is)

_blank_

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055374050

dogpile

Papa Smut wrote: »

Link?

Evening Herald..



He finds him arrogant apparentley, there's irony

Mmcd

dogpile wrote: »

blah blah blah...more excuses!


the guy is a scumbag plain and simple

No, the guy that did this is a scumbag, arrogant is what you're looking for!