Stephen Ireland Open Door or Slam it Shut! [mod warning post #645 / #713]

noodler

No it wouldn't, not on its own. It would be paying back the country that invested in you as a kid.

Anyway, the real greats played for their country.

helimachoptor

I'll be honest i usually dip in and out of this controversy.

But honestly I think its time to tell him to f**k off.

I've played for a few teams and boards, local teams, astro teams, company teams

It gives me great pride playing football. To be asked to play for a team is an honour.

To be asked to play for your country is something I would never turn down.
As it is at the moment I'd need to have a broken leg not to play football.

He has been offered a welcome back into the team, he is a very good player. He is not interested. Lets get on without him.



I

Xavi6

noodler wrote: »

No it wouldn't, not on its own. It would be paying back the country that invested in you as a kid.

Anyway, the real greats played for their country.

He's been playing in England using English facilities since his early teens. They funded the main part of his football education, not the feckin FAI of all people who give sweet fa to the grass roots soccer he would have played.

To imply he owes this country is bollox.

jaykay74

Frankly I think he has a duty to play for Ireland if only to stop these 2 threads about him...

Xavi6

jaykay74 wrote: »

Frankly I think he has a duty to play for Ireland if only to stop these 2 threads about him...

Lord no, that'd be the worst possible case. If he has even a slightly bad game we'd have the "See, told you you we should have told him to fuck off" threads.

He should stay well away and leave it at that.

Boggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

They funded the main part of his football education, not the feckin FAI of all people who give sweet fa to the grass roots soccer he would have played.

Very true, remember years ago playing an under 16 match, someone kicked the ball into the nearby lake, usually that wasn't a problem as the tide brought it back in, on this occasion thou it didn't, game had to be abandoned with 10 minutes gone. Good Times.

stovelid

He has the right not to play for Ireland if he doesn't want to, and shouldn't get grief for it.

But as this stage, he should never be called up again, especially not for a major tournament if we qualify, and people should just let it go.

JimiTime

If he has no desire to play, then so be it. He's a decent player, but certainly no Roy Keane, It'd be good if people just ignored him, and this whole scenario. If Trapatoni has asked him back and he refused, then thats all that can be done. He's not an Ireland player.

Its mad to think the years of loyal service someone like Cascarino gave us, and someone who was actually raised in the country doesn't want to play. Kilbane is another example. Each to their own I suppose. Shame really, as I get the distinct impression he's just being stubborn, but thats just a hunch.

ShooterSF

He's a good player as much as I hate to admit a city player is but he's pretty unstable. I'd say give him the chance to come back into the squad. Though I wouldn't let him walk into the first 11 whelan has done nothing wrong and reid is more deserving of a start. Let him come on as a sub and earn his place back.

On another note I do find it odd for someone to turn down the chance to play for their nation even with the motivation of silly old patriotism.

aidan24326

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lord no, that'd be the worst possible case. If he has even a slightly bad game we'd have the "See, told you you we should have told him to fuck off" threads.

He should stay well away and leave it at that.

As a City fan you are being completely biased though. Would you not want to see City's best players showing what they can do on a world stage? And would you not want Ireland putting our best possible 11 on the pitch?

Personally I'd leave the door open for him but I don't think Trap should be going cap in hand. Get someone like Liam Brady to contact him and ask him if he'd be interested in coming back. Tell him he's wanted and there's a place there in then squad for him, that he's part of the manager's plans.

If he still refuses to play after that, then forget about him. I'd write him out of the equation for this qualifying section and for Africa 2010 if we get there, and let that be the end of it. The door would again be open for him to come back for Euro 2012 if he had a change of heart.

Mark Hughes seems to be happy with how he's performing at Man City, so even though he's a bit of a tool he's obviously not that badly behaved as footballers go. I'm pretty sure Hughes would take no crap.

Xavi6

aidan24326 wrote: »

As a City fan you are being completely biased though. Would you not want to see City's best players showing what they can do on a world stage?

Yep, on the world stage in a City shirt. If he wants to save it for a Uefa/Champions League campaign then brilliant.

And would you not want Ireland putting our best possible 11 on the pitch?

The best possible players who wanted to play for them, yes.

SectionF

In a heartbeat

Mad Dog

Slam it shut I say ! !

Charlie

Just a heads up, it looks like Setanta will be showing a interview with stephen Ireland as partt of the build up to the Ciey match aainst Newcastle tonight.

Don't know if there is anything of worth in it, but for a bloke we talk about so often round here, we rarely hear from him directly.

Frisbee

He was a Grade A Douche towards his country before. But if he wanted to come back I'd forget all about it. He's definitely one of the best midfielders we have, if not the best...

evad_lhorg

at this time we need him. Stephen reid out for the season and Whelan or Gibson cant cut it on their own. Ireland has quality and we need more quality in the team.

pablomakaveli

i think hes a great player but he's acted like a complete prat and should just be forgotten about. it should be an honour to represent your country, not a chore.

i don't think he should be allowed play for ireland again until he cops himself on and apologises for being a twat.

Xavi6

pablomakaveli wrote: »

i think hes a great player but he's acted like a complete prat and should just be forgotten about. it should be an honour to represent your country, not a chore.

i don't think he should be allowed play for ireland again until he cops himself on and apologises for being a twat.

What exactly has he to apologise for?

anonymous_joe

Xavi6 wrote: »

What exactly has he to apologise for?

Abandoning the team?

I'd welcome him back simply because we need him, realpolitik all the way. He left the Ireland squad in cloudy circumstances. We could really do with a midfielder of his quality, given our relative size, but there's definitely baggage there.

He did lie to his team after all.

Xavi6

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Abandoning the team?

I'd welcome him back simply because we need him, realpolitik all the way. He left the Ireland squad in cloudy circumstances. We could really do with a midfielder of his quality, given our relative size, but there's definitely baggage there.

He did lie to his team after all.

Cloudy circumstances to the public maybe but between the players there is a clear reason why he left.

If the stories of him being held down by 'team mates' are true then I would have walked away as well.

anonymous_joe

Xavi6 wrote: »

Cloudy circumstances to the public maybe but between the players there is a clear reason why he left.

If the stories of him being held down by 'team mates' are true then I would have walked away as well.

If. I wish we knew.

Add to that, if something of that nature did happen, then I'd be disappointed that he lied to leave, rather than telling people what had happened.

Xavi6

I can only speculate that a 'What goes on tour stays on tour' mentality has been adopted and Ireland has decided just to say he's not interested.

If he was to come back I don't feel he owes anybody any apologies.

pwd

for lying to get out of playing for his country.
When roy keane didn't play there was uproar. Seems to be more acceptable to people for stephen ireland, maybe because he's passive about it.
I'd like to see him play and fit into the team. He's a good player in terrific form and the centre midfield is weak atm. Not taking him back might be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Don't know if his teammates would be happy to see him back after his funny departure and what he said to the media about them though.

anonymous_joe

Damn biased City fans.

All I know is he's a guy who clearly never got the support he needed from various elements in the Ireland set up. He managed to run afoul of the U21's set up and then the madness of whatever was done to him.

He's always struck me as a strangely confident yet desperately insecure person. Watched the interview from James Richardson's show and he seems such a confident young guy at times, and yet clearly he's a fairly messed up and temperamental young lad. Reminds me a little of someone like Cantona actually, whose temperament cost France and him a lot.

I'd love to see him in an Ireland shirt again, we produce players like him so rarely and add to that, he's an Irish lad, and it's nice to see our best players represent us.

I'd like him to say sorry for deceiving the public, but if anything did happen to him, I'd want an apology for that just as badly. Either that or for both sides to bury the hatchet and move on. Just get the boy playing for us again.

Xavi6

Wholeheartedly agree that Ireland needs to be in a green shirt again, though it's very much a case of us needing him more than he needs us given the current midfield situation (S. Reid gone and reserves galore playing).

The problem is some people feel that he 'owes' Ireland something. If he were to just go back into the squad I would expect some abuse from certain sections of the crowd at his first game. I'm sure he knows that too and doesn't want the hassle.

anonymous_joe

I've always wondered if a player does owe the team something.

I always felt betrayed by Roy Keane, but at the same time was pissed off with appalling man management. (Somewhat reminiscent of this kid come to think of it )

Footballers are people still, not some kind of strange animal (though I'd have doubts about one or two) and pretty much everyone's dreamed of playing for their country. When you see lads playing out their heart and soul for their countries, you realise that they're still human. I'd really be startled to find he didn't care for his country in that respect...

Then again, did he not once complain that football was shít and that he hated it? Or was that just a wild rumour? He's clearly a bit cracked one way or another. Doubt footballers would get anywhere near enough support for any mental issues they faced. Look at lads like Gascoigne or Adriano even.

vincenzo1975

its not a case of giviong him the green shirt, it's a case of him not wanting it I think. Does he really care?

Playing for your country is not like playing for a club, it should be more about honour, passion, sense of pride. I hope he is left out until he makes a public apology to the fans for he attitude, which I expect he will never do because wearing the green shirt is meaningless to him.

he's the kind of player that will go off the boil in prematurely a few years because he has made his fortune.

estebancambias

most players love international football and playing for their country but it just happens that we have a player who isn't particulary bothered about it. Sadly for us in this situation he is a very good player.

Xavi6

estebancambias wrote: »

most players love international football and playing for their country but it just happens that we have a player who isn't particulary bothered about it. Sadly for us in this situation he is a very good player.

Nail on the head este. And he shouldn't have to apologise for feeling that way.

anonymous_joe

estebancambias wrote: »

most players love international football and playing for their country but it just happens that we have a player who isn't particulary bothered about it. Sadly for us in this situation he is a very good player.

I wish you were wrong so badly. Damn you! *shakes fist* :pac:

Xavi6 wrote: »

Nail on the head este. And he shouldn't have to apologise for feeling that way.

Technically you're right, but I honestly don't know. He really does seem to be one in a million.

The one thing I'll say is, if the whole fuss really was over his hair, the hair he then shaved off, that lad does need a proverbial kick up the ass. Though I do think bullying someone with an obvious self-image problem is horribly low. It may be unfair, but I can't imagine Staunton having presided over a disciplned camp, with well defined boundaries.

vincenzo1975

If he wants to wear the shirt, he should have respect for what it stands for. He showed a distinct lack of respect in the way he handled things in the past, that needs to be righted, if he is to be allowed back in.

he shouldnt however have to apologise for not caring in the first place though, I agree with you there, he should have just never got involved.

pwd

most players love international football and playing for their country but it just happens that we have a player who isn't particulary bothered about it. Sadly for us in this situation he is a very good player.

yeah that's what I think too. Though if you believe his version of things (with Kerr and with the team) you'd probably say he was disillusioned with it.

Mr.Nice Guy

I don't agree with the 'Make him apologise' mentality. At the end of the day we want the national team to be represented at the major international tournament. Stephen Ireland would be a big help in making that happen. I don't see the logic in making him jump through hoops if a return could be realised. We need him more than he needs us. That is the harsh reality.

I like the guy personally. He's a quality player and I wish him well.

anonymous_joe

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

If he wants to wear the shirt, he should have respect for what it stands for. He showed a distinct lack of respect in the way he handled things in the past, that needs to be righted, if he is to be allowed back in.

he shouldnt however have to apologise for not caring in the first place though, I agree with you there, he should have just never got involved.

Most people would happily cast him aside if he wasn't as good as he is. I don't expect an apology, I just want our best attacking midfielder back. If we had players just as good, I'd be all for telling him to fook off. Not exactly big of me, but I buy into the idea that the national team is bigger than players. The last non-cynical football thought I have I reckon. :pac:

vincenzo1975

theres a standard of proffesionalism that has to be expected though. Discipline and respect for fans are a huge thing at international level. God knows that last thing Trap needs is grief between the players and fans. the only way ireland would fit in again is if that is righted.

he is a gifted player, no doubt, but does he really care, I just dont think so. I think all he cares about is the money he is making and looking after his family, which is fair enough, but that rules him out of the ireland set up in my book.

estebancambias

the funny thing is(well not funny really) is that he only played 6 games for us and wasn't exactly a regular when he left.

anonymous_joe

estebancambias wrote: »

the funny thing is(well not funny really) is that he only played 6 games for us and wasn't exactly a regular when he left.

6 games 4 goals?

And he was a lot younger then. He's a better player now than he was then.

Jazzy

hes our best midfielder and we need him

vincenzo1975

He's a good midfielder, and if he was in the squad, you would think that Andy reid would be his understudy as they have similar styles, but then Andy redi cant get in, so do we know that his style is what Trappatoni is looking for?

Not sure if he would be a 90minute reguler. Can you see an Ireland midfield with Stephen Ireland, damin duff and aiden McGeady in it? Its unbalanced, there would need to be a sacrifice for a defensive style in there.

anonymous_joe

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

He's a good midfielder, and if he was in the squad, you would think that Andy reid would be his understudy as they have similar styles, but then Andy redi cant get in, so do we know that his style is what Trappatoni is looking for?

Not sure if he would be a 90minute reguler. Can you see an Ireland midfield with Stephen Ireland, damin duff and aiden McGeady in it? Its unbalanced, there would need to be a sacrifice for a defensive style in there.

Depends who you're playing.

I don't think Reid's much of a tackler, but Whelan and Gibson didn't do much of that against Cyprus, and Ireland would offer more on the ball.

Our major problem at the moment is we have a decent defence with one or two outstanding players, some superb wingers, two great forwards and then next to nothing for the middle of the park, other than Reid and Ireland who are both very decent attacking mids. Oh to have another Keane, or even a Kinsella or Matty Holland.

estebancambias

we have better players than them but they aren't called up.(obviously not keane)

vincenzo1975

I think Trap likes midfielders that are slightly more defensive minded, I dont think he likes a midfielder that may get drawn into atack after attack. It was a big risk with gibson and Whelan, but he just wont put 3 attacking players in there, unless he sacrifices a striker or we are behind in the second half. I was actually surprised he didnt try to play Joyhn O shea in there.

Ireland is working well with City because they have Hamann/Petrov and Kompany bossing midfield. It allows ireland/Elano to compliment wright philips and Jo and Robihno.

For ireland to fit in with us, I think we would have to drop Doyle, McGeady or Duff.

estebancambias

Or Keane.....

We should use the exact same formation Russia used in Euro 2008, with perhaps more restricted full backs.

Karmafaerie

estebancambias wrote: »

Or Keane.....

We should use the exact same formation Russia used in Euro 2008, with perhaps more restricted full backs.

Yeah, I means Keane's only the top goal scorer in the history of the national team, entering his prime, and scoring consistantly for us!

Drop him or Trap out!!!

NabyLadistheman

Ireland is infuriatuing - watched him last night. Sickened my stomach when he scored and celebrates. I just think of all the people who are not as privaleged to be in a position to represent their country.

Before I get eat alive - that's just how I feel about the lad. He has turned me against him himself...I hope to god he falls from grace sometime soon.

grahamo

I'd certainly have him back. I heard there were rumours of "bullying" so he probably won't play for Ireland while certain players are in the squad.(should other player/s be dumped to accomodate him?)
However, if we qualify for the WC finals I don't think he should get the call up unless he's played a role in helping us qualify.

SectionF

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

For ireland to fit in with us, I think we would have to drop Doyle, McGeady or Duff.

I'd definitely drop McGeady for Ireland. Maybe even Doyle. And maybe even Duff. Ireland wouldn't have fluffed Duff's chance last night. But I think Ireland and Doyle would be brilliant together.

Xavi6

torresistheman wrote: »

Ireland is infuriatuing - watched him last night. Sickened my stomach when he scored and celebrates. I just think of all the people who are not as privaleged to be in a position to represent their country.

Before I get eat alive - that's just how I feel about the lad. He has turned me against him himself...I hope to god he falls from grace sometime soon.

Lol yeah the cheek of him goin and doing his day job to the best of his ability. Disgusting behaviour.

Third_Echelon

Well from his interview on Setanta last night, it clearly looks like he is not interested in playing for Ireland at this stage of his career.

The guy has made his decision. Lets leave him to it. When he matures a bit, perhaps he can reflect back and realise that his judgement was a bit hasty.

If he decided to come back at some stage in the future then fair enough, I'd have him back, but lets get on with the job at hand now of qualifying for the WC.

NabyLadistheman

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lol yeah the cheek of him goin and doing his day job to the best of his ability. Disgusting behaviour.

As I said in my post, it's just how I felt watching him score and celebrate - I didn't say he was right or wrong in scoring as I am aware thats what he's paid to do. It's my feeling as an Irish supporter and he is a footballer who should be on the team I support but refuses two.

I knew you'd be straight on my back, If you didn't have yer blue-speced glasses on maybe you two might be sick to the stomach watching him.