Landlady trying to kick us out. after 3 WEEKS!

Korvanica

Hi there,
I hope you can help me on my situation.

Me and 3 friends moved into a house about three weeks ago. But when we got the keys and moved in we had not completed the lease. We were give the lease to sign and mail to the estate agents (BPM Estates) when we had signed it. We read through the lease and had our lawyer look over it too. We wanted to make a few changes to the lease so we mailed it back unsigned to the estate agents.

One of the neighbours is very strict on parking in the area and complained when our guests parked accross the road from the house, so he complained to the landlady and also to us. We stopped everyone fromparking there and all was good. There was a small gathering (maximum 8 people) at our house one of the weekends after we moved in, the neighbours complained to the landlord about that. The landlady gave us a verbal warning which we accepted and apologised for. We also apologised to the neighbours.

A few days later the landlady called in the morning and arrived at the house 3 hours later. Not enough notice was given here.

A week later we were having another session, being as quiet as possible. The neighbour came over and complained about someone being up on her roof, and tried to blame one of our guests. Nobody was even outside and there is no way anyone can get on the roof as we were not given the key to the balcony. We do have an upstairs above our sitting room so we believe that was the problem, there were people up there and it would have seemed there was someone on her roof. Her house if a flatroof bungalow and ours only has one upstairs room. The lady who came over to complain about this was told if we actually find out there was someone on the roof we would banb them from the house. Which she replied "Dont worry about it, i dont want to be a party pooper".

This lady complained to our landlady. The landlady called on the morning of Monday the 8th Sept at 11.24am. She told us she wants us out of the house before saturday. She also said she would give back the deposit.

Now, i was talking to an estate agent about this issue today and he has informed me of the following things that may be illegal.:
1. Her moving us into the house and giving us the keys, with the Lease and PRTB froms not fully completed and agreed upon.
2. Her not having us signed up to the PRTB (Private residental tenancies Board)
3. Her not giving us a written warning after our verbal warning
4. Her not giving us at least a days notice before a house visit.
5. Her not giving us a written letter saying she wants us to vacate the property.

Can you give me any advice on the issue? What should i do?

Tipsy Mac

If you have no signed lease as far as I know you have no contract, no rights. For your and your landlady's benefit the lease should have been signed prior to you moving in.

Chinafoot

With all due respect OP, you've only been there 3 weeks and you've proved to be problematic for the landlord.

You refused to sign the lease, you had 2 parties (you may claim they were quiet but we all know how loud people can get with drink on them) causing the neighbours to complain and they also complained about people who don't live there parking there. From the landlady's point of view (and I'm not suggesting she's right) you are more hassle than you are worth.

What were you unhappy about in the lease? Why would you want to live somewhere with neighbours like that if your parties are as tame as you say?

Cut your losses and find somewhere else.

karen3212

Hi Op,

Your opening post is confusing me, Does the landlady have a manager handling the lease for her, if so are they not responsible for letting you move in before you signed the lease?

tbh I don't think I'd want to live there if the neighbours are so fussy, but you've not been given much time to move out and find someplace else, that is what bothers me most.

martian1980

You had a party within about a week of moving in, and after getting a warning, you had another one about a week later? Regarding your neighbour who was strict on parking, were you or your guests blocking any neighbours or using someone else's allotted space? You can argue the rights and wrongs of neighbours complaining, but it paints a pretty grim picture to the landlord and when you're throwing parties like that you leave yourself open to (at best) borderline behaviour being painted in a worse light. I can't say I blame the landlady. The tenancy only has to be registered within the first month so you can't get them on the legality of that. I can't see your other complaints receiving anything other than short shrift if neighbours stand over their complaints.

Jo King

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

If you have no signed lease as far as I know you have no contract, no rights. For your and your landlady's benefit the lease should have been signed prior to you moving in.

That is wrong. There is a contract even if it is not in writing. There are statutory protections for tenants even if there is no written contract. the landlady handed over possession without getting a contract signed. She cannot rely on the terms of the draft contract. The neighbours sound like a lot of busybodies and they cannot run the tenancy.

martian1980

Jo King wrote: »

That is wrong. There is a contract even if it is not in writing. There are statutory protections for tenants even if there is no written contract. the landlady handed over possession without getting a contract signed. She cannot rely on the terms of the draft contract. The neighbours sound like a lot of busybodies and they cannot run the tenancy.

The OP is getting their deposit back. What do you think they should be pushing for here? If the neighbours are being kept awake or their parking spaces are being used are you saying that they shouldn't complain, and if you were the landlord would you not be a little apprehensive? They could have given more notice, but when the OP hasn't been a model tennant what do you think they should be looking for?

EKRIUQ

1. Her moving us into the house and giving us the keys, with the Lease and PRTB froms not fully completed and agreed upon.

Nothing Illegal in that happens all the time,

2. Her not having us signed up to the PRTB (Private residential tenancies Board)

Not illegal there, they have one month or else pay a higher fee (The 2004 act gives no time frame) but as you didn't sign the lease why waste €70 sending it to the PRTB

3. Her not giving us a written warning after our verbal warning

(Its not at work you are)

2004 Act wrote:

The Landlord can terminate this Tenancy Agreement, without specifying the grounds, at any time during the first 6 months by giving 28 days written notice to the Tenant.

This may or may not have been in your lease but it doesn't matter because its the Residential and Tenancies act 2004 so this take presidence over your landlords lease

4. Her not giving us at least a days notice before a house visit.
5.Her not giving us a written letter saying she wants us to vacate the property.

See above point

First off lease's aren't really worth bollacks!! it just set's clear guidelines for both parties. If you want to know your rights read the 2004 Act, she can kick you out but must give 28 days notice which is her right.

By you paying a deposit, rent, moving in and having parties:cool: by express terms and actions you are her tenant!

Supercell

In summary, you are annoyed that you can't have party time all the time?
Thats how it seems to me reading between the lines.

the_syco

2004 Act wrote:

The Landlord can terminate this Tenancy Agreement, without specifying the grounds, at any time during the first 6 months by giving 28 days written notice to the Tenant.

Dude, leave the gaff, as she is offering the deposit. She could be a b|tch about it, keep the deposit and spend it repairing non-existent damage caused by the parties.

Sounds like your walls are paper thin, to the degree the next door neighbour would hear you fart at night. Get out, and try getting a detached/standalone house.

Victor

Korvanica wrote: »

One of the neighbours is very strict on parking in the area and complained when our guests parked accross the road from the house, so he complained to the landlady and also to us.

Once you are parked legally, you can park anywhere.

We stopped everyone fromparking there and all was good. There was a small gathering (maximum 8 people) at our house one of the weekends after we moved in, the neighbours complained to the landlord about that.

Your house is your castle. Once you aren't completely overdoing it, you can do whatever you want.

A few days later the landlady called in the morning and arrived at the house 3 hours later. Not enough notice was given here.

Not fair, but did it actually cause a problem?

The neighbour came over and complained about someone being up on her roof, and tried to blame one of our guests.

I think the neighbour has problems and it isn't you or your friends.

She told us she wants us out of the house before saturday.

She needs to give you proper notice - 28(?) days in writing. If she tries anything, you can call the Garda who will take it very seriously.

1. Her moving us into the house and giving us the keys, with the Lease and PRTB froms not fully completed and agreed upon.

Stupid, but not illegal.

2. Her not having us signed up to the PRTB (Private residental tenancies Board)

She is entitled to some time to do this.

3. Her not giving us a written warning after our verbal warning

Irrelevant - there is no proper warning system.

4. Her not giving us at least a days notice before a house visit.

Not good.

5. Her not giving us a written letter saying she wants us to vacate the property.

It needs to be in writing, with adequate notice.

You need to talk to your landlord, saying that a few days notice isn't enough and things will need to be done properly, however tell her you will see if you can find somewhere quickly.

Start looking now. Realise there are many students returning to college and places might go quickly.

sprinklesspanky

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

If you have no signed lease as far as I know you have no contract, no rights. For your and your landlady's benefit the lease should have been signed prior to you moving in.

Wrong. Every tenant has statutory rights. Check out Threshold's web site here. http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=240

sprinklesspanky

Namesco wrote: »

Nothing Illegal in that happens all the time,



Not illegal there, they have one month or else pay a higher fee (The 2004 act gives no time frame) but as you didn't sign the lease why waste €70 sending it to the PRTB



(Its not at work you are)




This may or may not have been in your lease but it doesn't matter because its the Residential and Tenancies act 2004 so this take presidence over your landlords lease



See above point

First off lease's aren't really worth bollacks!! it just set's clear guidelines for both parties. If you want to know your rights read the 2004 Act, she can kick you out but must give 28 days notice which is her right.

By you paying a deposit, rent, moving in and having parties:cool: by express terms and actions you are her tenant!

Spot on advice here.

Question: if rent is due on the 1st of every month, and the landloard gives 28 days notice, asking them to leave on October 8th, does the tenant have to pay a) October's rent b) part of it or c) any of it? What's the law say?

Climate Expert

Namesco has actually given terrible advice there.

Residential and Tenancies act 2004 does not take precedence over a lease. Try and break a years lease after a month and see how you get on in the courts.

Victor is right. Regardless of lease being signed this is an illegal eviction. Advise your landlady that if she continues with this then she is liable for thousands of euro in compensation. Just read any PTRB judgements to see what I mean.

The real problem here sounds like your neighbour and your landlords reaction to your neighbours whining.

If you want to have 8 people over in your house then you can. Thats what you pay rent for. If you want to park on a public road then you can.

shoegirl

Have to say you either live in a Japanese shoe box or are the neighbours from hell - 3 "sessions" in 3 weeks? Whoops.

Neighbours sound like they are unhappy at the property being rented out at all in the first place and are going to pounce on you for every tiny inconvenience, whether its illegal or not.

If I were you mate, I'd get out of there, it sounds like a fairly unpleasant place to live with what I can only guess are either very petty neighbours or there may be a history of inconsiderate tenants in the place.

Victor

Climate Expert wrote: »

Namesco has actually given terrible advice there.

Residential and Tenancies act 2004 does not take precedence over a lease. Try and break a years lease after a month and see how you get on in the courts.

Actually, its a bit more complicated it this case as the lease wasn't signed. It would be difficult for the landlord (but not impossible) to hold the tenant to the lease, where the lease exceeds the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

the_syco

Dude, leave, and don't have a big "going away" party the night before you move:D