Booting problem

TerrorFirmer

Just turned on my computer to find that Windows won't boot properly, as far as it'll go is the background but it fails to load explorer. Even trying to run explorer from the manager does nothing? This happened completely out of the blue - I don't think it's hardware related, as I can run programs fine from the manager, including games - but I reseated everything anyway but it's the same. Temperatures are all completely normal. I haven't run any updates, installed software, or virtually anything whatsoever. Hang on - the taskbar is just after finally appearing - 15 minutes later. AVG or Spybot show nothing. But when I restart the same thing happens.

Anyone shed some light on this random occurrence? I don't have my XP cd to hand so can't repair or re-install....

BrokenArrows

hows the cpu usage?

does it fail to load or does it give an error message?

when you look at the running proccess in task manager does explorer.exe show in it?

TerrorFirmer

CPU usage normal. Doesn't exactly fail to load, just takes about 15 minutes. During that time the machine is fully responsive and I can run any application through the task manager, just not explorer, until it finally rears its head. It's obviously a software issue of some kind I just don't know where even to begin looking....

BrokenArrows

my third question above might shed some light.

during the 15minutes does the explorer.exe show in the process list

TerrorFirmer

Yes, it shows. I'm having even worse problems now, XP will half the time do the above, and the other time, BSOD or plain hang, sometimes when turned on simply nothing will come up on screen, not even post, though the machine actually runs fine. I've double checked everything in my system, run memtest, checked cpu, cards, etc....all fine. Once I actually get into Windows, it's absolutely rock solid for anything, so it can't be the mobo either.....just a bit stumped on this one, and it's very frustrating. The small consolation is that it appears to be a software issue of sorts.

yoyo

I've seen simular symtoms on a dieing hard drive... Sluggish boot up but system seems to work ok while up, It mite be no harm running a diagnostics scan on your hard disk just to make sure

Nick

blackgold>>

Your problem is windows, do a repair install.
I ran across a few pc's this week with the exact same problem.

TerrorFirmer

Repair didn't work, but it seems like it is the hard drive after all, failed a test just there. bah.

Biggins

Get your hands on "Tuneup utilities 2008" and try running in on your machine.

There are many clearly laid out options in it for possibly repairing your system too.
You never know, it might just help.

TerrorFirmer

For frick sake....now I'm getting 'bad pool header' BSOD when trying to install XP on a new drive. :mad:

Biggins

Sounds like your going to have to reformat the drive at some stage soon (NTFS if possible - its more stable).

TerrorFirmer

Both drives have been formatted, makes no difference. Thought it might be ram, but no problems with memtest. What else could it possibly be?

Biggins

Apparently it is a common error when installing Service Pack 2 onto a system that was designed before Service Pack 2 was released. During the install process, the same process has come across a device that it don't possibly recognize.

I would suggest look here: http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6031733.html

Also this is a quote from someone:
"If you have recently updated any drivers through the Windows Update website, roll them back. Only install drivers obtained directly from the hardware manufacturer. Although I haven't had any problems with this under XP (to date, Windows Update has never offered any hardware driver updates for my system), I have run afoul of this under Win 98. Windows Update offered updates for both my video and sound adapters under Win 98. Both of them failed miserably (the video driver wouldn't even complete its installation without crashing, apparently because of an error in its install script!), and it required a lot of work to clean up the mess."

If all else fails - get your hands on a copy of "Black XP" - That WILL sort the problem for you.
If you want it, pm me and I will tell you where to download a copy.

Anti

Have you changed the sata cable? And used a different sata port ?

TerrorFirmer

I don't auto-update, and the hardware is all well past SP2 date. Besides, the computer was working 100% for about 6 months until this happened randomly. Yep, tried different port/cable/power combinations, same deal.

Biggins

Sent a PM. Hope it helps.

TerrorFirmer

Thanks but as I said in the PM it's definitely not a drivers issue, especially not at that level, think you entirely misunderstand the problem.... I'm not installing XP on old or even fresh hardware; this machine has been running fine for six months without any change, nor did I have any problems installing XP on it multiple times since I built it. Repair, sys restore -none of those work. I'm now getting stop codes specific to the ram now so I think it's time to run a night long memtest run. I've bought a cheap 256mb of ram off ebay as well to double check that, but at this stage it really can't be anything else other then the ram.

Thankfully Patriot have a lifetime warranty that they seem to honor themselves rather then through the retailer (bought it off ebay, can't remember from what store)

Biggins

Can you remove the "new" ram and try installing xp without it? Then re-insert afterwards!

ttm

Its been said already but if you have this sort of problem you must use....

Windows Memory Diagnostic

http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

Download is very small (600k ?) and is an ISO file which when burnt to CD creates a bootable CD which will run without the HDD so you can TOTALLY rule out (or in) a memory problem.

Anyone with strange unacountable errors should use this test FIRST, as it can saves hours of reloading and messing replacing stuff that isn't broken.

TerrorFirmer

Biggins wrote: »

Can you remove the "new" ram and try installing xp without it? Then re-insert afterwards!

All I have is my single kit that I've been using for the last few months. I'm waiting on the new stuff to arrive to replace and see if it's the Patriot ram causing the problem.

ttm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

All I have is my single kit that I've been using for the last few months. I'm waiting on the new stuff to arrive to replace and see if it's the Patriot ram causing the problem.

If you know anyone with a computer a cd burner and an internet connection then it takes about 10minutes to create a bootable memory diagnostic CD (see above) that will test your current memory and prove for sure if it has a problem.

Why not just buy a new computer then if it works you know for sure they was a problem with the old one?

TerrorFirmer

The ram cost 3 euro....bit of an extreme analogy? I did run memtest actually which I'm quite sure is as good as the windows one with no errors but I'll give it a go anyway.

ttm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The ram cost 3 euro....bit of an extreme analogy? I did run memtest actually which I'm quite sure is as good as the windows one with no errors but I'll give it a go anyway.

But an extreme analogy did get a bit more of the story

Just making the point that throwing new (repalcement) bits at a problem isn't always the logical thing to do but you obviously knew that, just didn't tell us.

Hope that was 3 euro including shiping?

TerrorFirmer

Actually yes, I got 2 for 6 posted, and I need the other 256mb for another machine.

TerrorFirmer

Ok back again. Have tried new ram, new hard drive, neither help - same old story, windows take forever to boot, and crashes with stop codes relating to either ram or hard drive.

So I've tried different ram, different hard drive, different sata cables, different power cables - the lot. Where do I go from here? Could it be the board?

Biggins

I think your coming closer to the point of reformatting the whole thing sadly.

TerrorFirmer

I've already said that doesn't work - it bluescreens before I can get anywhere on the install, regardless of what drive or ram it is, but it always give me a memory error.

Biggins

What way are you going about formatting? Are you rebooting and then using a boot up cd/disk?

Using dos: have you tried format [drive:] [/fs:file-system] where /fs:file-system = the file system to use (FAT, FAT32, or NTFS)

Have a look here: http://www.computerhope.com/formathl.htm Removing the partition and TOC (Table of contents) and rebuilding them, at boot sector level will ensure a greater clean format when it comes to doing the job.

Unless your sure about how to go about doing the above, don't try it.

ttm

If I think over the issues I have had that have had similar problems I'd defo start by checking memory issues so thats off the list if the Microsoft Mem Test checks out on the new memory.

Next would be HDD issues but I guess they're off the list if you have reformated and not had any error msgs.

So I'd take a look at CPU temperatures next (if I hadn't already), then I'd try swiching off LEVEL 1 and 2 caching on the CPU, computer will grind to a halt but if that "fixes" the problem then the CPU is the problem.

Long while back now but used to get this problem with Athlon XP processors that had been run for a few seconds with no heat sink, most burnt out and never worked again but a few would just throw error after - different each time - untill they were replaced.

TerrorFirmer

Thanks Biggins but it's not a HD issue as I've used 3 different drives and all 3 give the same problem. When formatting either of 3 drives, or at the very end of formatting/beginning of install wizard, machine blue screens.

thanks ttm I've already checked temp's which are fine I'll try disabling the cache and see how that goes.

Report back soon!

Biggins

That leaves a possibility of BIOS internal problems and the way its managing to handle input/output flowing data thru' the cpu and bus connections.

ttm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Thanks Biggins but it's not a HD issue as I've used 3 different drives and all 3 give the same problem. When formatting either of 3 drives, or at the very end of formatting/beginning of install wizard, machine blue screens.

thanks ttm I've already checked temp's which are fine I'll try disabling the cache and see how that goes.

Report back soon!

The cache on the CPU can get damaged just like anyother memory but without it the system will run very slowly, so disabling it is just a way of knocking it off the list of possible problems.

While your in the BIOS you could always derate the CPU speed and clock mulitplier and see if that makes any difference to the overall stability of the system. Obviously try whatever the BIOS will offer you as the most stable/compatable setup as opposed to any tweaked settings.

TerrorFirmer

Set the quad to run as a single core and now machine seems to be 100% stable. Once I enable it fully windows crashes after a few moments....been browsing now for 25 minutes without any problems. Annoying, as I can't afford a new CPU right now....well, except for a Celeron 1200 or something