Have you ever had your drink spiked ?

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 11:35am

neuro-praxis wrote: »

This thread for me has been a great reminder, at the very least, that any socialising where any drug at all is being taken (in most cases, alcohol) should really only be done with people you can truly trust.

Aren't a huge % of attackers in rape cases someone they knew/trusted?

You can't live your life like worrying what might happen

go out have fun keep an eye on your friends like you would any other night and that's all you can do..

Scarinae · 11-09-2008 11:59am

LolaDub, I'm sorry that you had such a horrible experience abroad, and that you got so little support back here. To be honest I'm quite shocked that you got that reaction from the Rape Crisis Centre, shocked and horrified. I knew all the statistics about underreporting of rapes, the problems with the court system etc, but I really thought that the Rape Crisis Centre would be one place to turn to if anything like that ever happened to me or one of my friends. I hope that you found another support system that was more helpful, and that you're not dealing with this by yourself

John Mason · 11-09-2008 12:01pm

i have had loads of friends who think their drinks were spiked, now personally i think it was just too much alcohol.

But if you are all so convienced you have had your drinks spiked, why havent you reported it to the police, that way the club with know what is going on and can be more aware of what is going on, also there may be CCTV.

Why arent you all reporting it to stop it happening to other wimmin? I find it all a bit strange tbh

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 12:07pm

Fishie wrote: »

LolaDub, I'm sorry that you had such a horrible experience abroad, and that you got so little support back here. To be honest I'm quite shocked that you got that reaction from the Rape Crisis Centre, shocked and horrified. I knew all the statistics about underreporting of rapes, the problems with the court system etc, but I really thought that the Rape Crisis Centre would be one place to turn to if anything like that ever happened to me or one of my friends. I hope that you found another support system that was more helpful, and that you're not dealing with this by yourself

Thanks. Maybe i got an unusual reaction from the crisis centre but it was the only experience i had from them and when i had that reaction coupled with some people here saying you're drunk/either report it or admit to be being a liar it doesn't make me wonder why people don't report these things.

Dragan · 11-09-2008 12:15pm

LolaDub wrote: »

with guys here saying

It's not all guys that are saying it, nor are all guys saying it.

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 12:17pm

Dragan wrote: »

It's not all guys that are saying it, nor are all guys saying it.

Sorry dragan when i said guys i meant in a slang sort of way like general people not spefically the gender. You know in a hey guys how are you doing kind of way etc. I'll change it if its offensive

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 12:22pm

LolaDub wrote: »

Thanks. Maybe i got an unusual reaction from the crisis centre but it was the only experience i had from them and when i had that reaction coupled with some people here saying you're drunk/either report it or admit to be being a liar it doesn't make me wonder why people don't report these things.

It's no excuse but you didn't get the reaction from the crisis centre

you got it from one person working there

maybe they had a _really bad day or you picked them up wrong or whatever

not excusing it! but the reaction was of a person not the whole center

kmick · 11-09-2008 12:32pm

Lola Dub why don't you try the RCC again? You have nothing to lose and I bet if you report the first reaction they will be as horrified as we all are.

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 12:32pm

ntlbell wrote: »

It's no excuse but you didn't get the reaction from the crisis centre

you got it from one person working there

maybe they had a _really bad day or you picked them up wrong or whatever

not excusing it! but the reaction was of a person not the whole center

NTlbell i'm not sure exactly what your point is, i think its i got someone having a bad day so i should forget and call again. Do you realise i'm not talking about buying a bad pint of milk and returning it, or a sales assistant being rude? These people are here to provide an important and necessary service to thos who really need it. Everytime they pick up the phone they are likely to be talking to someone who has been raped or in that situation and its unacceptable that they pass on their bad day/crap attitude to these peoples experience.

To be honest in this thread it seems more people are making excuses for the support system/the people who commit the crimes/ the situations etc and telling the people who have suffered that they are the ones in the wrong with being too drunk etc than helping people or trying to understand. There is very little constructive help or 'listening' in this thread. It refelects the attitudes that face people today and i really think its such a shame this level of doubt with a lack of support is what people find when trying to report/get help.

I was in the hospital when i came back as well getting treated for some injuries. The doctor asked how i got this degree of injuries in a very concerned manner i told him i had been raped and he just said ok and didn't say another word to me just went about his duties.

I think people either don't care, don't believe, don't want to believe or expect the person to be ashamed of this kind of crime. I've spoken to more than one person in the 'health and support' area and i've never gotten anything than bored looks/silence/accusations. So why would i report something if it happened again? I wouldn't bother. Its painful opening up about something so deep to people who are supposed to help and having the door shut in your face.

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 12:35pm

kmick wrote: »

Lola Dub why don't you try the RCC again? You have nothing to lose and I bet if you report the first reaction they will be as horrified as we all are.

thanks for your imput. It was a few years ago now and i've moved on. To be honest it doesn't look like attitudes have changed at all so i doubt i would get and support. I think a lot of women would feel its over why re live it

Dragan · 11-09-2008 12:42pm

LolaDub wrote: »

Sorry dragan when i said guys i meant in a slang sort of way like general people not spefically the gender. You know in a hey guys how are you doing kind of way etc. I'll change it if its offensive

Ah don't mind me, i'm just having a metro day or something.:)

And I think ntlbell may have been trying to say that the RCC do, the majority of the time, a good job with an incredibly harsh issue and to hopefully not judge them as an entity based on one interaction.

Believe me, i've done a lot of charity work, a lot of work for various projects and other things and it can really get to you......the sheer reality of it all.

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 12:42pm

LolaDub wrote: »

NTlbell i'm not sure exactly what your point is, i think its i got someone having a bad day so i should forget and call again. Do you realise i'm not talking about buying a bad pint of milk and returning it, or a sales assistant being rude? These people are here to provide an important and necessary service to thos who really need it. Everytime they pick up the phone they are likely to be talking to someone who has been raped or in that situation and its unacceptable that they pass on their bad day/crap attitude to these peoples experience.

To be honest in this thread it seems more people are making excuses for the support system/the people who commit the crimes/ the situations etc and telling the people who have suffered that they are the ones in the wrong with being too drunk etc than helping people or trying to understand. There is very little constructive help or 'listening' in this thread. It refelects the attitudes that face people today and i really think its such a shame this level of doubt with a lack of support is what people find when trying to report/get help.

I was in the hospital when i came back as well getting treated for some injuries. The doctor asked how i got this degree of injuries in a very concerned manner i told him i had been raped and he just said ok and didn't say another word to me just went about his duties.

I think people either don't care, don't believe, don't want to believe or expect the person to be ashamed of this kind of crime. I've spoken to more than one person in the 'health and support' area and i've never gotten anything than bored looks/silence/accusations. So why would i report something if it happened again? I wouldn't bother. Its painful opening up about something so deep to people who are supposed to help and having the door shut in your face.

I just think it's wrong to tar something like the rape crisis setup because of talking to one person, I don't know if they had a bad day or maybe they meant which sort of counseling you would like group/one to one/CBT/blah and wires were crossed but it was one person...

like you told the doctor you were raped and seem sort of surprised that he didn't do anything, what exactly did you want him to do? his job to treat your physical health anything out of that is outside of his remit so what did you want him to do ?

He probably hears those words a few times a week it's prob not a big thing for him to hear but it is huge for you.

Should I require counseling for anything I have to pay for it, It's my responsibility to find the right person to talk to and someone i feel comfortable with regardless of why I would need it might take me many counselors to go through to find the right one i connect with being raped is no different in your search for the right type of person.

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 12:51pm

Erm i think its hugely different. You expect me to tell as many people as the amount of people that i date that i've been raped??? I think you should try be a bit more considerate of the type of people you're dicussing. People don't like discussing things like this and i find your comments offensive and not constructive in the least. Also where did i say anything about not wanting to pay? Because i'm looking for counselling you think i'm a leech? Charming! I'm not tarring the rcc and again i'm offended at your accusation. I'm telling people about my experience trying to get help in answer to so many people saying why don't peoplpe report these things. In that i've mentioned the rcc and the doctor. I wasn't telling the doctor i was raped as some attention seeking desperation as you're making out i was answering his question of how i had been hurt so bad. up until i mentioned it he had been charming and courteous and explained everything he was doing then didn't say a word to me.

Dragan don't worry about it. I've done charity work too and i know how badly things affect you but when you're delaing with the people you're trying to help you can only put your best foot forward.

Also when i did call the rcc and asked for counselling and she asked me what , i said rape etc she said she'd have to ask someone and spoke to someone near her while on the phone to me and came back with this annoyed attitude and go on a waiting list so it was two people in the rcc.

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 12:55pm

ntlbell wrote: »

He probably hears those words a few times a week it's prob not a big thing for him to hear but it is huge for you.

Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Regardless of this if becoming desensitised and not wanting to support people is the standard of care we have, do you not see this as a problem?

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 1:05pm

LolaDub wrote: »

Erm i think its hugely different. You expect me to tell as many people as the amount of people that i date that i've been raped??? I think you should try be a bit more considerate of the type of people you're dicussing. People don't like discussing things like this and i find your comments offensive and not constructive in the least. Also where did i say anything about not wanting to pay? Because i'm looking for counselling you think i'm a leech? Charming! I'm not tarring the rcc and again i'm offended at your accusation. I'm telling people about my experience trying to get help in answer to so many people saying why don't peoplpe report these things. In that i've mentioned the rcc and the doctor. I wasn't telling the doctor i was raped as some attention seeking desperation as you're making out i was answering his question of how i had been hurt so bad. up until i mentioned it he had been charming and courteous and explained everything he was doing then didn't say a word to me.

Also when i did call the rcc and asked for counselling and she asked me what , i said rape etc she said she'd have to ask someone and spoke to someone near her while on the phone to me and came back with this annoyed attitude and go on a waiting list so it was two people in the rcc.

I don't really know what you're talking about. I don't expect you to tell anyone you don't feel comofrtable telling you were raped what's this got to do with anything?

My point was finding the right counselor, someone you can open up to someone who you connect with someone you don't feel is looking at you with a blank face/bored/look can be long and hard to find as it will vary greatly on you and the individual. I'm not saying you're a leech for looking for it but to have some patience with finding it and not start blaming the poor support system.

If she was working in the RCC and had to ask what counseling you wanted/needed would it not be obvious that maybe she wasn't working there very long? are most of them not volunteers who answer the phone? (i could be wrong)

maybe she was annoyed at the response from her colleague and it manifested itself over to you as she was new and not used to it? maybe she was frustrated as she wanted to help but was getting no support from the person beside her as she was so busy?

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 1:06pm

LolaDub wrote: »

Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Regardless of this if becoming desensitised and not wanting to support people is the standard of care we have, do you not see this as a problem?

I don't see the problem with a doctor getting on with his job and not giving you an hours counseling while he was attending to your medical needs a problem..no sorry...

if he refused to treat your medical issues, then we have a problem.

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 1:11pm

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't see the problem with a doctor getting on with his job and not giving you an hours counseling while he was attending to your medical needs a problem..no sorry...

if he refused to treat your medical issues, then we have a problem.

We don't have a problem. I'm getting tired over explaining myself on such a personal and upsetting issue to you so i'll say this one last time please read it. Doctor was treating me very friendly and explaining all he was doing and when it would hurt etc. Was very concerned about where i got my injuries and asked, i answered. From the moment i said rape he didn't look me in the eye, smile say a word, tell me when it wouold hurt etc nothing. It was like i was a dirty object he didn't want to be near. I was not complaining he didn't give me counselling its obvious i found his change of attitude offensive.

kmick · 11-09-2008 1:11pm

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't see the problem with a doctor getting on with his job and not giving you an hours counseling while he was attending to your medical needs a problem..no sorry...

if he refused to treat your medical issues, then we have a problem.

I think the doctor saying - 'I'm very sorry is there anything I can do for you professionally' i.e. recommend services available would have been the very least they could have done. To just ignore it is very hurtful to the person who told them.

I would have thought in the year 2000 the leats they could have been is professional.

Also stop being such an old grump ntlbell.

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 1:13pm

kmick wrote: »

I think the doctor saying - 'I'm very sorry is there anything I can do for you professionally' i.e. recommend services available would have been the very least they could have done. To just ignore it is very hurtful to the person who told them.

Stop being such an old grump ntlbell.

Thank You!!!!!

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 1:16pm

LolaDub wrote: »

We don't have a problem. I'm getting tired over explaining myself on such a personal and upsetting issue to you so i'll say this one last time please read it. Doctor was treating me very friendly and explaining all he was doing and when it would hurt etc. Was very concerned about where i got my injuries and asked, i answered. From the moment i said rape he didn't look me in the eye, smile say a word, tell me when it wouold hurt etc nothing. It was like i was a dirty object he didn't want to be near. I was not complaining he didn't give me counselling its obvious i found his change of attitude offensive.

Maybe he felt uncomfortable within himself? why are you assuming he thought bad of you? why does the problem have to lie with you? I would prob lost for words too it's not easiest thing in the world to talk about.

Maybe like you he made assumptions? maybe the way you said raped was in a tone that said and dont ask me anythng else?

why is he the bad guy?

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 1:18pm

kmick wrote: »

I would have thought in the year 2000 the leats they could have been is professional.

.

him being professional is carrying out his job, AFAIK he did.

kmick · 11-09-2008 2:59pm

ntlbell wrote: »

him being professional is carrying out his job, AFAIK he did.

A part of any health professionals job is compassion. A part of any human beings existence is compassion for others. None was shown here.

lawoman · 11-09-2008 3:11pm

Just wanna let y'all know about a drug called BHP .......................

kmick · 11-09-2008 3:21pm

lawoman wrote: »

Just wanna let y'all know about a drug called BHP that can be dropped into your drink & cause you to act out of character & lie and sneak around & do bad things- when persuaded to do so... It happened to a friend of mine in her own house. BEWARE!!! She only drank 1 drink so knew it wasn't the booze.. Luckily she had good friends who knew what she did was not her but some drug.. but she was still made do something that she didn't want to do with someone she didn't wanna do it with...

The content of this post is why threads regarding date rape drugs turn into slagging matches.

JC 2K3 · 11-09-2008 3:27pm

kmick wrote: »

Did any of you get tested after? Even just to find out what chemical it was? It was unlikely to be rohypnol as it does not really disolve and is really blue.

Could have been something like

GHB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid
or
Ketamine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine

Ketamine (Special K) is a horse tranquiliser used by vets and GHB (often called liquid mdma incorrectly) is a general anesthetic. Both are fairly widely available and the effects are similar to what was described. Both are very dangerous when taken with alchohol so your friends should have taken you to hospital in all cases bar none.

fits wrote: »

It think ketamine is the best candidate for it in a lot of cases as it is widely available.

Wibbs wrote: »

I reckon the same. Ketamine is the more likely culprit.

I had to respond to these assumptions that Ketamine and GHB are the most likely drugs to be spiked with. I really doubt this is the case.

GHB doesn't have much date rape potential. A massive dose would be required to induce a state of inebriation strong enough for a rape to be possible. It does interact with alcohol to induce sedation, but a lot of alcohol would have to have been ingested in the first place, and it would be a rather hit and miss way of going about things. There's also the fact that unless very pure, it will make a drink taste off, and even in pure form can make drinks taste slightly salty and off.

As for ketamine, I've seen sites saying that it's tasteless, which simply isn't true. I'd imagine that 200-300mg of ketamine hydrochloride in a drink would taste rather chemically and odd.

Personally, while I won't deny that spiking probably happens now and again, I'd put most "spikings" down to too much alcohol, a random stronger than expected or adverse reaction to what a person might consider a small amount of alcohol or some kind of random sickness (which happens to everyone every now and then).

lawoman · 11-09-2008 3:34pm

kmick wrote: »

The content of this post is why threads regarding date rape drugs turn into slagging matches.

anyone who jokes about things like this is obviously a complete and idiot and most likely wouldn't be able to type ...
anyway, just wanted to warn ye.. BHP causes insomnia, blackouts etc etc. Tasteless in red wine..

fits · 11-09-2008 3:34pm

Re the ketamine in the drink thing, theres a small amount of speaking from experience involved there.

Couldnt taste it.

Dragan · 11-09-2008 3:47pm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

GHB doesn't have much date rape potential. A massive dose would be required to induce a state of inebriation strong enough for a rape to be possible. It does interact with alcohol to induce sedation, but a lot of alcohol would have to have been ingested in the first place, and it would be a rather hit and miss way of going about things. There's also the fact that unless very pure, it will make a drink taste off, and even in pure form can make drinks taste slightly salty and off.

I don't know about that. I watched a mate of mine get his dose wrong one night and his reaction was , by and large, to shut down. It didn't take what i would consider to be a massive dose, especially as this guy is no dwarf.

As for the taste, it's been described to me as "chemically pineapple", so i imagine the harsh taste of booze would hide it pretty well. It is a golden colour, so may or may not be visible in some drinks.

Personally i haven't done that or K, just not my buzz.

kmick · 11-09-2008 3:50pm

lawoman wrote: »

anyone who jokes about things like this is obviously a complete and idiot and most likely wouldn't be able to type ...
anyway, just wanted to warn ye.. BHP causes insomnia, blackouts etc etc. Tasteless in red wine..

I have never heard of it. Is it new? Is it similar to cake?

JC 2K3 · 11-09-2008 3:51pm

fits wrote: »

Re the ketamine in the drink thing, theres a small amount of speaking from experience involved there.

Couldnt taste it.

Was there enough present to cause a blackout? I just can't imagine the required dose not making the drink taste like dilute hydrochloric acid. Perhaps alcohol might hide the taste, but I'm still skeptical.

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 4:25pm

kmick wrote: »

A part of any health professionals job is compassion. A part of any human beings existence is compassion for others. None was shown here.

He was shown compassion for the injuries and treated them.

not going to go around in circles with this..

he did his job he wasn't rude he just didn't discuss the girl getting raped.

Which to me is understandable

and as i said we dont know what tone she used with the doctor maybe it came across like she didn't want to talk or was snappy with him etc etc..

sometimes being human gets in the way of your profession..

JC 2K3 · 11-09-2008 4:30pm

Dragan wrote: »

I don't know about that. I watched a mate of mine get his dose wrong one night and his reaction was , by and large, to shut down. It didn't take what i would consider to be a massive dose, especially as this guy is no dwarf.

Yeah, my bad. It's not that it's a massive dose that's required at all, I'm getting mixed up here.

The reason GHB has little potential as a date rape drug is that dosing another person would be next to impossible to get perfectly right. A small bit too little won't intoxicate the victim enough and a small bit too much will cause them to pass out, and having to literally carry one's victim out of a club is hardly desirable for a rapist.

Having never done it myself I can't speak from experience, however.

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 4:32pm

I would of thought throwing out a few drinks and a few cheap lines to get yer hole would be a lot less hassle than all of the above

fits · 11-09-2008 5:06pm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Was there enough present to cause a blackout? I just can't imagine the required dose not making the drink taste like dilute hydrochloric acid. Perhaps alcohol might hide the taste, but I'm still skeptical.

I have no idea how much went into the drink, it was someone elses. I had a few sips and yes I lost a few hours. But not so much that I didnt trust myself and what I was up to. I remember bits of the night. But I had a lot of people I trust around. It would be a different ball-game if you were around people you dont know or trust and didnt understand what was happening. I'd say it would be quite scary tbh.

Isnt ketamine a drug where peoples resistance increases quite a bit if they take it lots. So a first-timer or unsuspecting person wouldnt need too much in their drink at all.

Mikel · 11-09-2008 5:43pm

LolaDub wrote: »

In all honesty i don't think you have to wonder very hard as to why more people don't report these things. Look at the attitude on this thread, there's a lot of you were just drunk you're just a liar etc. People get drinks and drugs for themselves not to take advantage of you. If this is the attitude on an anonymous womens forum i'd be frightened to know what the face to face actual reporting attitude is. As Thae said there is still a lot of victim blaming in this country which is very unfortunate. Perhaps if we were a lot more considerate to people who have become victims we would see the real figures starting to emerge. Like it or not people on this thread have gone through traumatic experiences and hearing you were just drunk you drama queen doesn't help anyone.

Nobody has called anyone a liar.
Nobody has blamed any woman for being raped.

Dragan wrote: »

I have done various doorwork in various parts of the country for about the last decade. In that time I have seen all kinds of punters in all kinds of states. I can spot the difference between too much booze, too many pills, too much coke etc fairly easily. Most cops, doormen, ambulance drivers etc can. It comes from working with the unsober public.

Anyways, I have seen many, many girls claim their drink was spiked, and I am sure that they really believed it. I have seen people from both a professional and a social standpoint hit the same ( roughly ) amount of booze over a few different nights and react completely differently. Sometimes they get drunk, sometimes they get absolutely **** faced.

I had an exgirlfriend tell me she had been spiked on a night that we were out. I watched her drink a full bottle of vodka in a friends house, fall over, throw up and then took her home. In her head she had been out all night and I had to explain to her exactly what happened.

While I have no dount that spiking does happen, I have seen the results of that myself, I do not think it is as prevalent as some people believe.

However, I also believe that if it happens even once, that once is too much.

I agree with all of this.

Zaph · 11-09-2008 5:57pm

lawoman wrote: »

anyone who jokes about things like this is obviously a complete and idiot and most likely wouldn't be able to type ...
anyway, just wanted to warn ye.. BHP causes insomnia, blackouts etc etc. Tasteless in red wine..

Are you sure you're not talking about GHB? I can't find any mention of BHP on Google.

kmick wrote: »

I have never heard of it. Is it new? Is it similar to cake?

Behave yourself.

Jackz · 11-09-2008 6:07pm

LolaDub wrote: »

Look at the attitude on this thread, there's a lot of you were just drunk you're just a liar etc. People get drinks and drugs for themselves not to take advantage of you. If this is the attitude on an anonymous womens forum i'd be frightened to know what the face to face actual reporting attitude is.

Some peoples attitude might be born out of knowing of circumstances where people claimed to have been drugged and raped. It can be a fairly devastating to a guys future especially in a small community to be falsely accused of these things.

LolaDub · 11-09-2008 9:47pm

In all honesty i felt pretty crap after posting my own experience of what is called 'support' in this country. I know some people were deliberately trying to upset me others had what i see as a crazy view. I posted something very personal and upsetting and what happened here in response to it was a reflection of what happened when i went looking to talk to someone professionally. Until i logged in and saw my pms. I received a few pms from people i don't know and have never spoken to before being kind, considerate and supportive. Those people are the kind that make me believe there are decent caring people out there and not regret telling my story. Sadly you will have people that always want to argue and you have good people in the world, at least boards is a reflection of both

ntlbell · 11-09-2008 10:10pm

the search for someone to blame is always successfull

Scarinae · 11-09-2008 11:19pm

LolaDub, once again I'm sorry to hear about your ordeal, and I'm sorry that you've found it upsetting posting about it here on the boards. I would be just as upset as you if the doctor reacted like that after you opening up and telling him what happened to you, I'm surprised that he couldn't at least be sympathetic and maybe recommend somewhere for you to get more help with the counselling side of things.

ntlbell, you seem to be under the impression that all doctors are supposed to do is deal with physical injuries and ailments, and ignore the emotional needs of their patients. While I don't think doctors should be giving hour-long counselling sessions to their patients, is it really too much to ask that they be sympathetic when somebody has had such an ordeal? Do you not think that it is strange that his entire manner changed when she said she had been raped? It comes across to me as if the doctor felt awkward at her answer, and tried to pretend she hadn't said it. This kind of thing is one of the arguments against the high points required to study medicine - a lot of the students who get in may be intellectually able for medicine, but don't have enough capacity for empathising with their patients, often referred to as 'bedside manner'. Consider a doctor telling a patient they have terminal cancer - there is a huge difference between just stating the fact that they're going to die, and breaking it to them in a nicer, less blunt way and comforting them. There is more to the job of being a doctor than dealing with the physical, you are dealing with some very sensitive subjects on a daily basis and need to be able to give people that comfort.

I know this is a very long post, but I have one more question - it seems to me that people are saying that drink is not an excuse if something happens to you when you're out. If I am raped on a night out, is the amount of drink I've had a factor in whether or not it is percieved as being my fault? If I have only had one drink and am raped, obviously people would see this as rape, but what if I had several drinks followed by shots, would people say I had been asking for it? It just seems from this thread that people are passing off incidents as if it was the girls' own faults for drinking too much, but in my opinion unwanted sex is always rape

JC 2K3 · 11-09-2008 11:47pm

Fishie wrote: »

This kind of thing is one of the arguments against the high points required to study medicine - a lot of the students who get in may be intellectually able for medicine, but don't have enough capacity for empathising with their patients, often referred to as 'bedside manner'. Consider a doctor telling a patient they have terminal cancer - there is a huge difference between just stating the fact that they're going to die, and breaking it to them in a nicer, less blunt way and comforting them. There is more to the job of being a doctor than dealing with the physical, you are dealing with some very sensitive subjects on a daily basis and need to be able to give people that comfort.

Friends of mine who are med students have told me that they are taught bedside manner along with the science.

Fishie wrote: »

but in my opinion unwanted sex is always rape

So if a guy goes out, gets plastered and wakes up beside some girl he'd never have wanted to have sex with if his judgement wasn't impaired, has he been raped?

I wouldn't say "unwanted sex", I would say "forced sex".

Consent is a very hazy issue when alcohol is involved. I don't think anyone thinks a girl is asking to be raped by drinking too much, but rather being against a girl willingly having sex with someone while drunk and then calling it rape the morning after when she realises what she's done.

Black Swan · 11-09-2008 11:59pm

Was in Palm Springs California in a hot tub with a bunch of uni students during spring break over a year past and this lad they nick named "Daiquiri Man" starting bringing these slushy crushed ice fruit drinks to us during the night. The first one had no alcohol that I could detect, just a strong fruit taste that was cool and yummy in the hot tub. But as the night progressed, he apparently was slowly increasing the amount of alcohol without us realising it. After the forth one, I tried to stand up, and lost my balance. Whoa, I was totally wasted!

Acacia · 12-09-2008 12:37am

ntlbell wrote: »

I just think it's wrong to tar something like the rape crisis setup because of talking to one person, I don't know if they had a bad day or maybe they meant which sort of counseling you would like group/one to one/CBT/blah and wires were crossed but it was one person...

like you told the doctor you were raped and seem sort of surprised that he didn't do anything, what exactly did you want him to do? his job to treat your physical health anything out of that is outside of his remit so what did you want him to do ?

He probably hears those words a few times a week it's prob not a big thing for him to hear but it is huge for you.

Should I require counseling for anything I have to pay for it, It's my responsibility to find the right person to talk to and someone i feel comfortable with regardless of why I would need it might take me many counselors to go through to find the right one i connect with being raped is no different in your search for the right type of person.

1. They're the Rape Crisis Centre. Every call they get should be treated with respect and courtesy, regardless of whether the person on the other end has had a 'bad day'. You just shouldn't be working in that environment if you're going to take your personal problems out on others. If somebody reacted that way to me when I tried to talk about such an appalling issue, I'd be in no hurry to repeat the experience either.

2. The doctor should have put Loladub in contact with some professional body who deals with rape . Even if he felt uncomfortable, a few charitable words wouldn't have gone amiss. And how did he think his complete change in attitude would make her feel?

3. ''he probably hears these words a few times a week...''. He might also hear about people's broken limbs, cancer, etc a few times a week. Does that mean he should treat them with the same contempt as he treated Loladub?

ntlbell wrote: »

I would of thought throwing out a few drinks and a few cheap lines to get yer hole would be a lot less hassle than all of the above

Possibly, but some people get their kicks out of taking advantage of drugged women and men, or some simply couldn't be bothered with the 'hassle' of chatting them up. Also, some people are just out-and-out nasty and spike people because they want to make them look stupid or out-of-control.

MementoMori · 12-09-2008 9:01am

Just to add some general knowledge to the thread

Was doing some research was looking into how easy/difficult it would be to obtain Rohypnol in Ireland. The general consensus from medical professional/chemists/people in the drug industry was that while it might be possible, it was extrememly unlikely as the legal supply of it is quite tightly controlled and that it is not actually used to treat very much in Ireland i.e there is not very much of it in the country. They did say that it was possible that illegal drug dealers might be bringing it into the country, but that it was unlikely given they didn't think there wouldn't be much of a demand for it. They all agreed that there were other drugs which would be much easier to obtain that would be "better" suited for use as a date-rape drug - better in the sense that there is a blue dye which does not dissolve in drink in all Rohypnol legally manufactured now. Just felt that this should be mentioned as testing for Rohypnol might be a bit of a blind alley - not saying it shouldn't be tested for, just think it should be lower down the list when it came to testing for drugs. The lack of positive tests for Rohypnol does not automatically mean that drinks don't get spiked - it just means that drinks in Ireland are very unlikely to be spiked using Rohypnol.

I was wondering does anyone know if drugs are tested for when a rape is reported? I would presume there is a standard medical test and that drugs are tested for.

ntlbell · 12-09-2008 9:05am

Acacia wrote: »

1. They're the Rape Crisis Centre. Every call they get should be treated with respect and courtesy, regardless of whether the person on the other end has had a 'bad day'. You just shouldn't be working in that environment if you're going to take your personal problems out on others. If somebody reacted that way to me when I tried to talk about such an appalling issue, I'd be in no hurry to repeat the experience either.

2. The doctor should have put Loladub in contact with some professional body who deals with rape . Even if he felt uncomfortable, a few charitable words wouldn't have gone amiss. And how did he think his complete change in attitude would make her feel?

3. ''he probably hears these words a few times a week...''. He might also hear about people's broken limbs, cancer, etc a few times a week. Does that mean he should treat them with the same contempt as he treated Loladub?

Possibly, but some people get their kicks out of taking advantage of drugged women and men, or some simply couldn't be bothered with the 'hassle' of chatting them up. Also, some people are just out-and-out nasty and spike people because they want to make them look stupid or out-of-control.

Look,

The way I see it is this..

The girl in the rape crisis centre didn't do her job ( a volunteer who has volunteered to help women who were raped)
then the doctor didn't do his ( a person who usually give up their whole lives to help others)

then the people of boards are out to get her...

There's a pattern here...

ntlbell · 12-09-2008 9:17am

MementoMori wrote: »

Just to add some general knowledge to the thread

Was doing some research was looking into how easy/difficult it would be to obtain Rohypnol in Ireland. The general consensus from medical professional/chemists/people in the drug industry was that while it might be possible, it was extrememly unlikely as the legal supply of it is quite tightly controlled and that it is not actually used to treat very much in Ireland i.e there is not very much of it in the country. They did say that it was possible that illegal drug dealers might be bringing it into the country, but that it was unlikely given they didn't think there wouldn't be much of a demand for it. They all agreed that there were other drugs which would be much easier to obtain that would be "better" suited for use as a date-rape drug - better in the sense that there is a blue dye which does not dissolve in drink in all Rohypnol legally manufactured now. Just felt that this should be mentioned as testing for Rohypnol might be a bit of a blind alley - not saying it shouldn't be tested for, just think it should be lower down the list when it came to testing for drugs. The lack of positive tests for Rohypnol does not automatically mean that drinks don't get spiked - it just means that drinks in Ireland are very unlikely to be spiked using Rohypnol.

I was wondering does anyone know if drugs are tested for when a rape is reported? I would presume there is a standard medical test and that drugs are tested for.

It's about has hard to buy as a bit of smoke

It's about as hard to get off your GP as viagra

Dragan · 12-09-2008 9:18am

Fishie wrote: »

I know this is a very long post, but I have one more question - it seems to me that people are saying that drink is not an excuse if something happens to you when you're out. If I am raped on a night out, is the amount of drink I've had a factor in whether or not it is percieved as being my fault? If I have only had one drink and am raped, obviously people would see this as rape, but what if I had several drinks followed by shots, would people say I had been asking for it? It just seems from this thread that people are passing off incidents as if it was the girls' own faults for drinking too much, but in my opinion unwanted sex is always rape

You are going to get all kinds of views on this. I remember not to long ago a very terrible poll was done by a newspaper that showed a lot of people thinking that the victim is somehow responsible for the rape.

Personally, it's not a line I buy.

I do however think a lot of people need to grow up a bit and be a bit more careful in certain situations. Twice in the course of my doorwork I was the only thing that came between a victim and a rapist. That’s twice in 10 years, which is a pretty unusual thing to happen. One was behind a club I worked in, the other was on the walk home from work with a fellow doorman. I have seen people on nights out act in ways and get drunk to the point that honestly has me questioning whether they have any cares in the world or respect for themselves.

If I don't want to get mugged them I don't go wandering through dodgy area's in town, on my own, with my headphones on. It's not a good idea if being on the receiving end of our crime stats is something you don't want to do.

Likewise, there are certain things people can do on nights out to limit the chances of anyone messing with them in any way.

1) You don't get drunk off your ass to the point you can hardly talk.
2) You don't go wandering to quiet places with people you just met ( will be influenced by the first ).
3) You don't go places alone with people you have just met ( will be influenced by the first ).
4) You don't leave drinks unattended. ( you guess it! )
5) You don't accept drinks from randomers, no matter how hot they are.
6) When going home, go home with someone, or at least get walked to your taxi by mates if possible.
7) Enjoy yourself, have fun and keep an eye on your mates.

Now, not doing any of the above does not mean you deserve and are asking to be raped. Anybody who would think that is retarded and I don't mind saying that here. What it does make you, in the eyes of people who think in such ways, is a victim.

Plain and simple.

At the end of the day, we can breed a culture of fear, where we are all afraid to go out or let our loved ones go out for fear of rape or we can just be a bit more sensible at times when we often lack sense and take slightly better care of each other.

Are all rapes avoidable? Of course not. But like most things in life you can seriously affect your chances one way or the other.

Wibbs · 12-09-2008 9:35am

ntlbell wrote: »

It's about has hard to buy as a bit of smoke

It's about as hard to get off your GP as viagra

I agree with this. If I needed to I could get it handy enough and I don't really revolve in those circles. I know people who have used it recreationally too. I still reckon in 80% of cases it's drink, the rest most likely ketamine. While the effect of alcohol does vary from night to night, it's a narrow enough band. If I get píssed on a 4 pints, one night I may get píssed on 3, another night it might take 5, but there's no way I'm gonna get out of it on one.

ntlbell · 12-09-2008 9:38am

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree with this. If I needed to I could get it handy enough and I don't really revolve in those circles. I know people who have used it recreationally too. I still reckon in 80% of cases it's drink, the rest most likely ketamine. While the effect of alcohol does vary from night to night, it's a narrow enough band. If I get píssed on a 4 pints, one night I may get píssed on 3, another night it might take 5, but there's no way I'm gonna get out of it on one.

I was able to get it from my GP when I was as young as 16

Our use of the drug was for edumacational purposes at the time..

Mylow · 12-09-2008 10:04am

Let's just put this one to bed once and for all, the only substance drinks are spiked with is alcohol.

Here is link to study carried and published in the 'Emergency Medical Journal' in UK, pretty similar drinking patterns to us.

I also saw another study from Southampton University Hospital, came to exact same conclusion, to much alcohol. Also non drinkers had drinks spiked with alcohol.

Have you ever had your drink spiked ?

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