Have you ever had your drink spiked ?

fits

Ive never heard of anyone using rohypnol or heard that it was easily available. Learn something new every day I guess.

ntlbell

fits wrote: »

Ive never heard of anyone using rohypnol or heard that it was easily available. Learn something new every day I guess.

I took a fairly big dose the first time with a fair amount of drink that was 13 years ago and I remember the night pretty clearly today.

It doesn't seem like something that would be useful in trying to rape someone.

There's no "hangover" from taken it eithier so the stories of people feeling very poorly the next day don't match up to rohypnol but they do match up with having too much to drink..

fits

ntlbell wrote: »

There's no "hangover" from taken it eithier so the stories of people feeling very poorly the next day don't match up to rohypnol but they do match up with having too much to drink..

Same applies to ketamine tbh.

kmick

That report has one or two interesting findings.

1) No incidence of GHB, Rohypnol or Ketamine in the small samle they had.
2) Quite a bit of Coke, Amphetamines which are unlikely to cause a special k type affect as they are stimulants rather than depressants and have much shorter windows of effect.
3) They comment that the drinks were more likely spiked with alcohol. e.g. topping someones drink up with shots.

As regards Rohypnol I used to see an empty packet of it in Phibsboro outside my old apartment block almost every Saturday night so its either available fairly handily or someone had a contact in a chemist somewhere. Again because it is so blue and does not dissolve it is just not really a candidate here.

JC 2K3

Same applies to a lot of drugs (on a side note, our society is rather stupid in that the only legal recreational drug available gives one of the worst hangovers of any drug).

There's a lot of bs about recreational drugs in the media, and I'd imagine the same would apply to date rape drugs. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there's much hard evidence out there regarding what drugs are most commonly used to spike drinks, and it seems most likely that the media have simply latched onto the buzzwords "Rohypnol", "Ketamine" and "GHB".

LolaDub

Of course theres two sides to every story, a woman being raped or drugged is a horrendous experience, a man being blamed for a rape he did not commit is also a horrendous experience. Perhaps if there was a more severe and compassionate attitude towards this type of crime and it was taken more seriously then people would be slower to make fake reports and quicker to report the actual incidents.

I do think in Ireland there is a stigma revolving around it both in the reporting, the support and the general attitude. As i said my experience was posted not because of the act otherwise i would have included more details on it, but about the support to show another side to why people feel they don't want to report it. My own incident was nothing to do with date rape or drugs or drink it was just a random act of violence from someone i had never met before. I think Dragan has a very good point of excessive drinking, it does impair your judgement and it does make you an easier target. Nobody should be blamed for someone hurting them but everybody needs to be more aware of the situations and have a bit of common sense to help prevent these things occuring more often.

ntlbell

LolaDub wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a more severe and compassionate attitude towards this type of crime and it was taken more seriously then people would be slower to make fake reports and quicker to report the actual incidents.

You forgot the second side of this story.

Perhaps if people who were not raped didn't claim to be it might be taken more seriously.

Perhaps if people were not drinking themselves stupid and blaming random people on spiking them it would be taken more seriously

Nevyn

Dragan wrote: »

You are going to get all kinds of views on this. I remember not to long ago a very terrible poll was done by a newspaper that showed a lot of people thinking that the victim is somehow responsible for the rape.

Personally, it's not a line I buy.

http://breaking.tcm.ie/ireland/mhojeygbcwsn/

26/03/2008 - 08:32:55
One quarter of Irish people believe female rape victims bear some responsibility for the crime, according to an opinion poll published this morning.

Large numbers of respondents to the Red C poll in the Irish Examiner said they thought the victim was at least partly responsible if she wore revealing clothes, flirted extensively, walked through a deserted area, consumed alcohol or drugs or failed to clearly say no to sex.

The respondents' gender reportedly had little impact on their views about victims.

The Dublin Rape Crisis Centre has said it is not surprised about the outcome of the survey given the attitude to rape in Ireland.

It says the figures explain why so few rape cases result in a conviction and justify the reluctance of victims to come forward and report the crime.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/03/26/story58682.asp

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 :

Our attitude to rape - We must stop blaming the victims

TODAY we publish a deeply disturbing survey on rape and rape victims that should make us all stop and think about how we judge women, their attackers and our society’s attitude towards what provokes sexual crimes.

The findings will make harrowing reading for those, especially women, who thought they were living in a society where justice was blind and that the state was prepared to protect all of its citizens with vigour.

Our survey reveals the shocking statistic that more than 30% of people think a victim is some way responsible if she flirts with a man or fails to say “no” clearly. In another alarm-call statistic, one in 10 thinks that a victim is entirely at fault if she has had a series of sexual partners.

Four out of 10 think a woman who flirts extensively is at least complicit, if not completely in the wrong, if she is the victim of a sex crime. In another statistic, so terribly at variance with the way we lead our lives, one in three people believe a woman is either partially or fully to blame if she wears revealing clothing.

These are startling figures and represent a substantial discouragement to any woman contemplating reporting a rape or sexual assault.

This can only be hardened by the fact that any rape-case jury will reflect a society that still holds these attitudes so chillingly revealed in our survey.

This discouragement is further hardened by broken government promises to put medical and assessment services for the victims in place around the country.

That Ireland has the lowest conviction rate for rape in Europe must be the final nail in the coffin for anyone contemplating reporting an attack.

Another disquieting finding confirms that attitudes are very slow to change and that a ground-breaking Sexual Abuse and Violence in Ireland report in 2002 still rings true.

Chief executive of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre Ellen O’Malley Dunlop said the findings confirmed women’s reluctance to report attacks and seek justice.

We have a very poor track record in offering support to victims of rape or other sexual attacks. Deep in our collective psyche we harbour an ambiguity that deepens a victim’s wounds and prefers not to acknowledge the evil at the centre of those attacks.

Nowhere is this unacceptable position seen more starkly than in the statistics detailing the number of women who are prepared to come forward and say that they were raped or sexually assaulted and that they want their attacker to face the consequences.

A mere one in 12 women will even tell the gardaí that they have been sexually assaulted or raped.

Of those who do not report an attack, a third remain silent because they feel that they will be held accountable. Others feel too ashamed, that they might have been in some way responsible or that they provoked and tacitly encouraged their attacker.

This tells us that we are a society that does not easily offer support, protection or comfort to a person who has been either raped or sexually attacked.

Not only does this leave an individual isolated and without the support a civilised society should offer as a matter of course, but it leaves those who carried out such attacks free to continue living their lives as if nothing had happened. They are free to attack again without hindrance or the censure of a society that finds such attacks reprehensible and unacceptable; the only one facing any consequences is the victim.

Though this situation is a result of our hush-hush allocation of blame and guilt, it cannot be what we actually mean.

Despite how things have changed, this is still, fundamentally, a caring society. A society that does not accept that this kind of violence against one of our sisters or neighbours should be brushed under the carpet.

We may sneer at what we describe as the neanderthal beliefs of other cultures where, say, the evidence of two women is required to counteract the evidence of one man or where women cannot be seen in public unless they hide themselves under a chador, but maybe we should think again.

After all, subjugation by religious practice has the same effect as subjugation by disbelief or accusations of “she was asking for it”.

In our society women can be dismissed because they are afraid to accuse, in other societies because they cannot be seen or heard. We rely on accusations of guilt or compliance, so the rest of us can pretend that there is not a great violence and darkness at the root of all these attacks. It is unimaginable that this is what we want for our society or families.

But what are we doing to create a culture where that shameful one in 12 statistic is no longer a reality?

lawoman

Zaph wrote: »

Are you sure you're not talking about GHB? I can't find any mention of BHP on Google.

Oops sorry, Yes of course thats what I meant.
I was a little busy yesterday so wasn't really paying full concentration.
I'm a little shocked at some of the various responses to this thread and don't even wanna bother responding to some of the sh it written here. If anyone cares GHB is genuinely used & is quite easy to get your hands on in this country........ anyway what's the point.... Just be careful!

LolaDub

ntlbell wrote: »

You forgot the second side of this story.

Perhaps if people who were not raped didn't claim to be it might be taken more seriously.

Perhaps if people were not drinking themselves stupid and blaming random people on spiking them it would be taken more seriously

If you read my post without jumping to arguning with me you'll see i already said that.

LolaDub wrote: »

Of course theres two sides to every story, a woman being raped or drugged is a horrendous experience, a man being blamed for a rape he did not commit is also a horrendous experience. Perhaps if there was a more severe and compassionate attitude towards this type of crime and it was taken more seriously then people would be slower to make fake reports and quicker to report the actual incidents.

I do think in Ireland there is a stigma revolving around it both in the reporting, the support and the general attitude. As i said my experience was posted not because of the act otherwise i would have included more details on it, but about the support to show another side to why people feel they don't want to report it. My own incident was nothing to do with date rape or drugs or drink it was just a random act of violence from someone i had never met before. I think Dragan has a very good point of excessive drinking, it does impair your judgement and it does make you an easier target. Nobody should be blamed for someone hurting them but everybody needs to be more aware of the situations and have a bit of common sense to help prevent these things occuring more often.

Ntlbell if you want to argue with me over what i'm saying, the price of oil, the weather etc please pm me. This thread is supposed to be a constructive discussion on drinks being spiked, not the latest thing you've found to argue about. People do get their drinks spiked, people get raped, people lie about, all of this exists and it shouldn't. Hopefully common sense over meeting people and drinking and better laws/acting on laws and support in place could make a huge difference to this but i wouldn't hold my breath on anything changing.

ntlbell

LolaDub wrote: »

If you read my post without jumping to arguning with me you'll see i already said that.



Ntlbell if you want to argue with me over what i'm saying, the price of oil, the weather etc please pm me. This thread is supposed to be a constructive discussion on drinks being spiked, not the latest thing you've found to argue about. People do get their drinks spiked, people get raped, people lie about, all of this exists and it shouldn't. Hopefully common sense over meeting people and drinking and better laws/acting on laws and support in place could make a huge difference to this but i wouldn't hold my breath on anything changing.

I don't need to PM you boards is for discussing this is what's going on.

Peopel are allowed have a different point of view from you without them being "bad" people or out to get you.

Me seeing things from a different angle does not mean I want to argue with you or I dislike you or that I don't believe your story.

All the way through this thread I just offered another way of possibly looking at a situation.

It's ok when people don't agree with you or see things differently it's what make's the world and boards tick.

Don't get defensive...

JC 2K3

lawoman wrote: »

If anyone cares GHB is genuinely used & is quite easy to get your hands on in this country

Easy to obtain, yes. Genuinely used, there's no real proof of this. AFAIK in any study done on drug tests, only a very low amount have GHB in them, and there's nothing to say that the person in question did not take it recreationally. There's also the fact that many drugs tests were skewed by the then unknown fact that GHB is spontaneously produced naturally in urine which has been stored for a few months (and given the backlog in most drug testing centres, they generally will be).

Mr. Incognito

Dublin Rape Crisis statistics

http://www.drcc.ie/stats/visit-jan03-dec03.htm

date rape is 3% apparently

40% were fathers and brothers. shocking.

In questions to the minister :

http://www.irlgov.ie/debates-98/26nov98/sect5.htm

As the Deputy is aware, the term "date rape" has been linked in recent times with the abuse of the drug Rohypnol. In reply to a question tabled on 10 February 1998 by Deputy Upton I informed the House that the Garda authorities had advised me that that there was no specific information available linking the use of Rohypnol to crime in this jurisdiction.

Interesting link and discussion that the Gardai had not detected Royhpnol in any cases tested for it

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=2369

Judging by the statistic's it's not the faceless boogeyman running around with rare and expensive drugs and dropping them into strangers drinks on night outs that women should be fearfull of but more boyfriends and people close to them.

I'm sure it happens, but 3% sounds about right to me, it's too high of course and I have nothing but compassion for any girl that has had to experience such a horrific ordeal but I think people should respect the dangers of alcohol and examine personal drinking habits before harping on about having drinks spiked.

It's about has hard to buy as a bit of smoke

It's about as hard to get off your GP as viagra

Ridiculous comment tbh. Evidence? My pot dealer wouldn't have any royhpnol handy if I asked him for it and I'd half expect him to call the police (rightly) if I did.

And if I asked my GP for something, "you know, for the ladez " I'd be in a police station by the end of the day.

ntlbell

SetantaL wrote: »

Ridiculous comment tbh. Evidence? My pot dealer wouldn't have any royhpnol handy if I asked him for it and I'd half expect him to call the police (rightly) if I did.

And if I asked my GP for something, "you know, for the ladez " I'd be in a police station by the end of the day.

Well I'm not sure what evidence you're looking for.

Why would he call the police?

People were taken royhpnol/vallie's/duck eggs etc long long before any of this date rape nonsense was on the seen.

You can get rohypnol from your doctor pretty easy.

Most heroin addicts are perscribed them and alcoholics.

Generally heroin addicts would prefer money so they sell them on and buy gear.

Unless you're a recluse they should be pretty easy to pick up anywhere around town maybe use the head think were do heroin addicts congregate?

meth clinics right?

when you want something especially drugs in ireland really, it's not that difficult to get your hands on.

you would want to be still wet behind the ears to think otherwise

ntlbell

SetantaL wrote: »

And if I asked my GP for something, "you know, for the ladez " I'd be in a police station by the end of the day.

I'm not going to give a lesson on how to get a GP to perscribe a drug..

But if you wanted a drug from a GP what makes him perscribe a drug

like vallium for instance.....

Where do you think you would find out what Valium is prescribed for?

How hard would it be to present yourself at a GP with similar symptoms?

If i keep going I'll start talking like a baby...

Nevyn

I started this thread for people to share their experiences as I reckoned just going on the people I know personally that this has happened to that it must be hugely under reported but that due to the upset and embarassement and wanting to forget it ever happened it's not talked about and that is those who were spike and didn't come to any futher harm never mind those who had worse happen to them.

So the only way to make people more aware, more cautious and to get people to go get tested and to change the 'offical' numbers is to talk about it and get people to share what happened to them.

This become impossible in the face of cross examination tatics which are more suited to humanities. This isn't just a dicussion and a exerise in having a debate/arugement it's people coming forward to share what has happened to them and they should be respected for that.

Vegeta

Has anyone here got tested?

What do they take, urine, hair and blood?

What capabilities test wise do they have. Can they only test urine or all three?

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

I started this thread for people to share their experiences as I reckoned just going on the people I know personally that this has happened to that it must be hugely under reported but that due to the upset and embarassement and wanting to forget it ever happened it's not talked about and that is those who were spike and didn't come to any futher harm never mind those who had worse happen to them.

out of curiosity all these people that you know it happened to

where they tested?

what was the drug in there cases?

ntlbell

Vegeta wrote: »

Has anyone here got tested?

What do they take, urine, hair and blood?

What capabilities test wise do they have. Can they only test urine or all three?

i guess they could take all three but what they find would depend on how quickly you presented yourself for the test.

LolaDub

Why don't you read thaes post again? The thread isn't a cross examination, its so people who have gone through it have a place to talk. The internet is a valuable tool for anonyminity (sp?) so people can post their experiences without being worried of the judgement they may face in everyday life. However just as that is a positive it always means theres a few keyboard warriors about.

Nevyn

Vegeta wrote: »

Has anyone here got tested?

What do they take, urine, hair and blood?

What capabilities test wise do they have. Can they only test urine or all three?

Usually only urine.

Ntlbell in one case we managed to get the remains of her glass of 7UP and that was tested. She doesn't drink and was thankfully out with people who knew the symptoms when we saw them.

ntlbell

LolaDub wrote: »

Why don't you read thaes post again? The thread isn't a cross examination, its so people who have gone through it have a place to talk. The internet is a valuable tool for anonyminity (sp?) so people can post their experiences without being worried of the judgement they may face in everyday life. However just as that is a positive it always means theres a few keyboard warriors about.

Because I think people would be interested to know if people were tested and what the drug was?

Can you stop backseat modding? if a mod is not happy with a post they can remove it

I've been around the internet a few years I have a slight grasp on how it works but thanks..

and just incase you get carried away, it's not very anonymous

Nevyn

LolaDub wrote: »

Why don't you read thaes post again? The thread isn't a cross examination, its so people who have gone through it have a place to talk. The internet is a valuable tool for anonyminity (sp?) so people can post their experiences without being worried of the judgement they may face in everyday life. However just as that is a positive it always means theres a few keyboard warriors about.

He doesn't care tbh, just looking for another 'strawman' and to make me enguage with him on his terms.

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

Usually only urine.

Ntlbell in one case we managed to get the remains of her glass of 7UP and that was tested. She doesn't drink and was thankfully out with people who knew the symptoms when we saw them.

Can you say what the result of the test was?

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

He doesn't care tbh, just looking for another 'strawman' and to make me enguage with him on his terms.

That's unfair...

Asking if they got tested and what the result was is a fair question

Nevyn

Life is unfair and I do not have to furnish you any more information for you to pick and pull apart, this type of thread spoiling and beligerance is what stops people from enguaging on sensative topics.

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

Life is unfair and I do not have to furnish you any more information for you to pick and pull apart, this type of thread spoiling and beligerance is what stops people from enguaging on sensative topics.

How is asking for information on a statement you make in a post spoiling a thread..:rolleyes:

Nevyn

Ntlbell darling welcome to my ignore list.

Now after that glorious display of how to badger people when they are talking about sensative and emotive topics,
I do hope that people are not put off sharing what has happened to them for it is that type of attitude from people which puts them off talking about their experiences and if things are not talked about people's awareness will not be raised and change doesn't happen.

LolaDub

If you check the title disecting info is off topic, thae pointed out that you could start one in humanities more suitable to what you are posting. Thae isn't a mod here neither am i, just trying to preserve the thread for its intended purpose.

To be honest ntlbell you are proving my point for me about the attitude in our country today around this issue, words couldn't have out it better than your presence here.

The thread is a noble effort to create an area for people to post thei own experiences

Gone West

I know a high ranking Doctor who sits as a director on the board of a national organisation related to this issue.

He told me that in almost every single case of "date rape" the persons blood alcohol level was tested to be significantly higher than what it should have been if that person had consumed the amount of alcohol they told the doctor they had.
In addition, rohyphnol has never been found in anybody's blood tests in Ireland.

This was maybe 3-4 years ago. But the principle is the same.

Date rape (drugging) is 99% a myth.
That 1% is awful, unbelievably disgusting, horrifying and incomprehensively evil, but most girls who have come in the morning after were mistaken.
This isn't BS, and was honestly told to me by a well respected doctor who works in the field.