Have you ever had your drink spiked ?

ntlbell

LolaDub wrote: »

If you check the title disecting info is off topic, thae pointed out that you could start one in humanities more suitable to what you are posting. Thae isn't a mod here neither am i, just trying to preserve the thread for its intended purpose.

To be honest ntlbell you are proving my point for me about the attitude in our country today around this issue, words couldn't have out it better than your presence here.

The thread is a noble effort to create an area for people to post thei own experiences

It's up to a mod to decide what's off topic and if a mod would like to remove my posts and drag them over to humanities they're more than welcome

but we have mods here for a reason so posters like yourself dont need to concern yourself with what I do or say or anyone else that's their job

see?

Nevyn

Yes those are the numbers which break down from the numbers which are reported, again this is under reported, we all know well that often the official numbers are not what is happening on the ground or what people are experiencing and in order to make people more aware that they need to go get tested so that the 'offical' numbers change and action is taken then there needs to be open sharing dialogue.

FuzzyLogic wrote: »

I know a high ranking Doctor who sits as a director on the board of a national organisation related to this issue.

He told me that in almost every single case of "date rape" the persons blood alcohol level was tested to be significantly higher than what it should have been if that person had consumed the amount of alcohol they told the doctor they had.
In addition, rohyphnol has never been found in anybody's blood tests in Ireland.

This was maybe 3-4 years ago. But the principle is the same.

Date rape (drugging) is 99% a myth.
That 1% is awful, unbelievably disgusting, horrifying and incomprehensively evil, but most girls who have come in the morning after were mistaken.
This isn't BS, and was honestly told to me by a well respected doctor who works in the field.

Yep.

About a month ago. So unfun.
I had had two bottles of bulmers.. on my second felt very strange. I remember telling a male friend my legs and head felt weird. I tried holding onto him.. but I fell. Managed to get to seat. I passed out. Luckily my friends brought me home. Could remember nothing the next day.

Nerin

An ex of mine had hers spiked when she was up in dublin with friends,luckily there was a big enough group and they took care of her. Also had a feeling who did it,but had no proof. As a guy, i'd be very worried of a girlfriend getting her drink spiked. The thought scares the crap out of me tbh,since you wouldnt be there to mind them.

Gone West

Ok you all have stories about drinks being spiked.
Has anyone got a true story which includes
"went to the hospital the next day, had a blood test, and it came positive for rohyphnol"

That, would be something I would be interested to read.
That is a very rare case, because 99% of you who were "spiked" were not spiked, you merely reacted to Alcohol differently than usual, or had a mineral spiked with alcohol.
I'm sorry to say it, I know its a very emotive issue, but really... Any doctor speaking candidly will tell you as much.

Telling boards that you were spiked means SFA unless you actually went to the hospital and had a test. If you did, fair play.
I know this is a very serious issue, and I'm not trying to troll.

JC 2K3

SetantaL wrote: »

Ridiculous comment tbh. Evidence? My pot dealer wouldn't have any royhpnol handy if I asked him for it and I'd half expect him to call the police (rightly) if I did.

And if I asked my GP for something, "you know, for the ladez " I'd be in a police station by the end of the day.

Rohypnol is a commonly prescribed benzodiazepine used to treat insomnia, not some evil date rape drug cooked up by underground drug lords.

Media spin has given it this image.

Thaedydal wrote: »

I started this thread for people to share their experiences as I reckoned just going on the people I know personally that this has happened to that it must be hugely under reported but that due to the upset and embarassement and wanting to forget it ever happened it's not talked about and that is those who were spike and didn't come to any futher harm never mind those who had worse happen to them.

So the only way to make people more aware, more cautious and to get people to go get tested and to change the 'offical' numbers is to talk about it and get people to share what happened to them.

That sounds slightly like you're pushing an agenda and not giving enough thought to the possibility that the "official numbers" might not actually be innaccurate. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting you, but it sounds a little like you're convinced this goes on a lot based on some anecdotal experience.

However, I do acknowledge the purpose of this thread, though I don't think discussion of what drugs are actually involved or the possibilities of spiking with alcohol or adverse reactions to alcohol are outside the bounds of this topic.

As a matter of interest, what drug was in the 7UP?

Nevyn

JC 2K3 wrote: »

That sounds slightly like you're pushing an agenda and not giving enough thought to the possibility that the "official numbers" might not actually be innaccurate. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting you, but it sounds a little like you're convinced this goes on a lot based on some anecdotal experience.

From personal experience the 'offical' numbers seem to be different from those on the ground and I wanted to see if other people had simular experiences.
I did include involuntary excess alcohol in my first post not just drugs.

Knowing what the drugs are and the side effects is a good thing, it means people can figure out for themselves hopefully what is/has happened and will get tested.

Most people who I know who have had this happen certainly don't talk about it willynilly and do not go bragging about it and use it as an excuse for over indulging.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what drug was in the 7UP?

Ketamine.

cuckoo

I'm finding myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Ntlbell's posts.

Having experienced the willingness of people that i had thought friends to believe that I had spiked the drink of a male with 'some drug, read about it somewhere, has some symptons....', I don't think there is any sort of denying of spiking. If anything, i think there's an exaggerated belief that it's happening all the time, to lots of people.

Some of the hype around drink spiking reminds me of those urban legends that used to circulate around schools, 'the jacuzzi got her pregnant!'.

It's like a scary story that people are using to thrill themselves and others with, 'the monster nearly got me'!, 'i could have been raped!', 'i wouldn't have been able to fight back!', etc.

And, by putting all the blame on the 'drug' it taps into all the anti-drug lectures we're given as kids, drugs are bad, scary...people lose control. Drugs make people commit crime, drugs make people dance to bad music....drugs are evil. So, we have more power to the myth.

The evil stranger (aka 'man') is also something we are warned about from a young age, don't take sweets from them and don't talk to them.

So - with drink spiking there's a double whammy of story telling power. The Evil Stranger of our youth has got tired of offering us sweets, instead they are going to slip Drugs to us unawares.

This faux-victim-who-cries-'spike' is doing a disservice to those who have been assaulted, and those who have had their food/drink tampered with.

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

Ketamine.

Considering the peak lasting affect for even a high dosage of K is about 8-12 minutes

It just doesn't make sense to use it in a date rape scenario..

It also doesn't fit in with the "i cant remember anything from the whole night"

or feeling rough the next day

none of it adds up

fits

Not when ingested orally. Lasts hours rather than minutes.

ntlbell

fits wrote: »

Not when ingested orally. Lasts hours rather than minutes.

not really, the hours after is a bit like the way they say the affects of lsd last 16 hours it doesn't you're peak is 3-4hours and 14 hours of it just well your back to pretty much normal but very small affects of the LSD are still there but you're fully aware..

It's the same with K you might feel a peak of up to about 40 minutes (if consumed orally which would be the case in date raping i'd assume) and for hours after you know you've taken it but you're "back to yourself"

even 40 minutes is a small amount of time imo

and would make more if can say "sense" for the attacker to use something else..

complete blackouts from the K for hours after doesn't seem to add up eithier

WindSock

I find this thread to be interesting and informative. If people want to post their experiences here, they are more than welcome, but bear in mind this is not PI or the Samaritans. This forum is not primarily a support, listening or advice group but is open to the public to post as they wish as long as its not inflammatory, etc. So beware, you might not like what you read but also be careful about how you post.
If there are people who post of their past traumatic experiences though and they wish not to divulge any more info than they have given, then please let them be and don't badger them.

fits

ntlbell wrote: »

It's the same with K you might feel a peak of up to about 40 minutes and for hours after you know you've taken it but you're "back to yourself"

even 40 minutes is a small amount of time imo

and would make more if can say "sense" for the attacker to use something else..

complete blackouts from the K for hours after doesn't seem to add up eithier

All I'm trying to say is that insufflating or injecting K have much shorter lasting effects than oral ingestion. So we are talking hours rather than minutes for the peak, and then obviously, a while to return to normal.

I blacked out (not completely) but then I suffer memory loss rather easily on booze as well. (such as last Saturday for example )

ntlbell

fits wrote: »

All I'm trying to say is that insufflating or injecting K have much shorter lasting effects than oral ingestion. So we are talking hours rather than minutes for the peak, and then obviously, a while to return to normal.

I blacked out (not completely) but then I suffer memory loss rather easily on booze as well. (such as last Saturday for example )

Heh, this is why I think booze if I was an attacker would be my drug of choice..

Pretty much everything an attacker would desire from the affect of a date rape drug is in alcohol...

and they're all ready filling themselves up on it!

fits

ntlbell wrote: »

Heh, this is why I think booze if I was an attacker would be my drug of choice..

Pretty much everything an attacker would desire from the affect of a date rape drug is in alcohol...

Its still spiking, its still sneaky and its still wrong. I'd imagine extra spirits are thrown into drinks quite often without peoples knowledge.

ntlbell

fits wrote: »

Its still spiking, its still sneaky and its still wrong. I'd imagine extra spirits are thrown into drinks quite often without peoples knowledge.

Of course it is but the point i'm making is it doesn't make sense for them to putting in k or rhypnol.

They're all ready filling themselves up with alcohol, alcohol will do everything and more any of the above will do

without the hassle of buying drugs etc....

it just makes more sense.

fits

I dont disagree with you.

JC 2K3

cuckoo wrote: »

I'm finding myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Ntlbell's posts.

Having experienced the willingness of people that i had thought friends to believe that I had spiked the drink of a male with 'some drug, read about it somewhere, has some symptons....', I don't think there is any sort of denying of spiking. If anything, i think there's an exaggerated belief that it's happening all the time, to lots of people.

Some of the hype around drink spiking reminds me of those urban legends that used to circulate around schools, 'the jacuzzi got her pregnant!'.

It's like a scary story that people are using to thrill themselves and others with, 'the monster nearly got me'!, 'i could have been raped!', 'i wouldn't have been able to fight back!', etc.

And, by putting all the blame on the 'drug' it taps into all the anti-drug lectures we're given as kids, drugs are bad, scary...people lose control. Drugs make people commit crime, drugs make people dance to bad music....drugs are evil. So, we have more power to the myth.

The evil stranger (aka 'man') is also something we are warned about from a young age, don't take sweets from them and don't talk to them.

So - with drink spiking there's a double whammy of story telling power. The Evil Stranger of our youth has got tired of offering us sweets, instead they are going to slip Drugs to us unawares.

This faux-victim-who-cries-'spike' is doing a disservice to those who have been assaulted, and those who have had their food/drink tampered with.

I don't agree with ntlbell, however I agree 100% with your post.

I think the hype surrounding drink spiking induces hysteria in anyone who has an odd experience on a night out any makes them think they've been spiked. Personally, a couple of times I've gone out and been very drunk off a small amount of alcohol (stomach contents, tiredness and other medications can affect this), and other times I've gone out, had a drink or two, felt sick, gone home and woken up feeling like crap. Things like this aren't that uncommon.

@Ntlbell
Ketamine is a different story when mixed with alcohol and what you say about LSD only really lasting 3/4 hours is a load of crap. It's usually 6-8 hours before one is down to a level of only feeling minor effects.

ntlbell

JC 2K3 wrote: »

@Ntlbell
Ketamine is a different story when mixed with alcohol and what you say about LSD only really lasting 3/4 hours is a load of crap. It's usually 6-8 hours before one is down to a level of only feeling minor effects.

I'm not going to get into the minor details of the last effects of LSD

but from dots to blots to mushrooms the peak times are all different..



the point is the peak is a lot less than what's written in any literature..

I took lsd for years in many countries all over the world

the point that was been made was when you read about LSD the claims are it lasts anything up to 15/16 hours which is wrong

the peak is much shorter maybe a microdot will last 6 and a blot 4

I don't need a lesson in it...

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I don't agree with ntlbell, however I agree 100% with your post.

I said the same thing he said? lol

and on the ketamine, the affect might be stroner but alcohol doesn't make the K last any longer

the same way drinking on E's/Coke/Speed/Acid etc wont make the peak of those drugs last longer but will change the affect of the drug

Dragan

Before you too freak out comparing stats, you are both forgetting that depending on your source and such LSD will be off different effect to begin with.

I could get some seriously good tabs from one source, some weak ones from another etc

ntlbell

Dragan wrote: »

Before you too freak out comparing stats, you are both forgetting that depending on your source and such LSD will be off different effect to begin with.

I could get some seriously good tabs from one source, some weak ones from another etc

aye I was just using it for anyone who might be pulling how long it lasts from a wikpedia page

the reality is often a lot different

JC 2K3

ntlbell wrote: »

I said the same thing he said? lol

Mmm... I suppose I do agree with much of what you say, just not the way you go about saying it.


And yeah, touché, arguing about acid's duration is silly.

And as for ketamine just being a bit stronger when mixed with alcohol. I personally can envision it being enough to make someone black out the last hour or two of a night before passing out. What I have difficulty with is that the dose and timing would need to be quite accurate on behalf of the spiker were they to rape said person.

fits

Who said it was stronger when mixed with alcohol?

I dont think thats necessarily the case at all, I just think the effects last longer when ingested compared with the normal way of using it.

and messy drug +messy drug = double the messiness.

ntlbell

fits wrote: »

Who said it was stronger when mixed with alcohol?

I dont think thats necessarily the case at all, I just think the effects last longer when ingested compared with the normal way of using it.

and messy drug +messy drug = double the messiness.

it's not so much that it's stronger it's just your getting hit from all sides being buckled and the peak of the K

but your right i think it would just turn into a mess and again doesn't make sense...for the job

JC 2K3

I'm not sure how well researched it is, but from what I've experienced and read, they seem to interact with each other in some way to produce much stonger effects than were they taken alone.

That said, spiking with K still isn't all that practical.

ntlbell

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I'm not sure how well researched it is, but from what I've experienced and read, they seem to interact with each other in some way to produce much stonger effects than were they taken alone.

That said, spiking with K still isn't all that practical.

A hammer would be more practical tbh

*BANG*

DiscoHugh

Have to agree with cuckoo on this. They're is mass media hysteria about the boogey man lurking in the dark labyrinthes of coppers occasionally leaving their lair to spike an unsuspecting drink.

There was a huge article about this issue a couple of years ago in the tribune which I couldn't find online (best I could do was a similar one in the mail ) but here is a perfect example of the media convincing folk that there is a huge underground network of spikers/rapists out to get them with their magical rapepills, people buying into it etc.:

In 2003, when the media were reporting a drink-spiking epidemic in Perth, Western Australia, 44 women had their blood tested because they believed they had been the victims of drink-spiking. The West Australian Chemistry Centre tested the blood samples, and, in these 44 cases, the only substance found in the victims' system was excessive alcohol. Police said that the blood-alcohol level of most of the subjects was significantly higher than what the women had themselves expected. Alcohol has the same effects as other date rape drugs, and causes unconsciousness and memory loss.

As for procurring these so-called date rape drugs people forget that their primary use is recreational. Media hysteria aside, most people use them on themselves. For a nice smooth come down from a coke or pills binge, a nice little trip in itself or even to knock themselves out for a long haul flight!

Bottom line is: by far the number 1 date rape drug is and always has been alcohol...

Nevyn

The thing is that it is a nondirect way to addle someone so that they become vonderable, disorinated and to mess with their memory to they can't testify or given enough of a statement for garda to act that is why it is so insidious.

Those that choose to do this aren't waiting until a person is passed out.

ntlbell

Thaedydal wrote: »

The thing is that it is a nondirect way to addle someone so that they become vonderable, disorinated and to mess with their memory to they can't testify or given enough of a statement for garda to act that is why it is so insidious.

Those that choose to do this aren't waiting until a person is passed out.

doesn't drink do all that anyway?

eh hello..

Mikel

This is a strange thread. It did not ask if any women had bad experiences and wanted to talk about it, it asked 'Have you ever had your drink spiked'
Maybe you should have added the disclaimer that all those concerned have decided rightly or wrongly that this is what happened and won't take kindly to anyone doubting the prevalence of this 'spiking'.

Then we get the usual straw man accusations of blaming the victim.
As for that survey, this must be the third thread I've seen that posted on.
You can get any result you want in a survey, you just have to ask the right question.
I'd actually like to know what the questions were.

The more I read threads like these I realise that those who campaign on 'women's issues' don't have the foggiest clue what they are doing.
In UCD a few years ago the SU ran a large expensive campaign to combat 'drink spiking', despite the lack of any evidence that it's a major problem.
Why do they do this? For the same reason that Amnesty run campaigns about women as victims of war, it makes them feel good.
It seems the only important thing is posturing, and usually about things that intuitively people will resist.
But they'll go on with their red herrings and vigils outside the Dail.

I remember the story recently about a woman who was assaulted and had to travel halfway across the country to be examined because the was no sexual assault unit in her local hospital.
They should have held a protest about that, or a hunger strike, or whipped up a storm on Liveline. In other words approached it in a practical way by highlighting a real black and white outrage.

But they're too busy manipulating statistics and being indignant about all the wrong things

Language on rape issue ideologically booby-trapped

Some attitudes to rape in a recent poll have been branded as outrageous. Is this reaction reasonable, asks John Waters

ALMOST EVERYONE would agree that rape, when it occurs, is a serious and despicable crime, to be met with the full rigour of the law. But fair-minded people would also agree that, precisely because rape is such a serious and despicable crime, we should not assume that such a crime has occurred because an allegation has been made.

Thus, there is something semantically suspect about the persistent claims by groups campaigning on this issue that what they precipitately call rapes are a) not being reported and b) when reported, are not culminating in convictions.

Legally, many allegations of rape can be formally deemed rapes only when convictions have been obtained. Insisting that charges be proved beyond reasonable doubt is not "blaming the victim". It is called due process.

Moreover, reason suggests a gradation of alleged rapes, ranging from violent assault at knifepoint to disputed recollections of alcohol-saturated encounters between people who have been alone together. Such observations provoke extreme reactions in certain quarters.

But this, nonetheless, is the context in which we should properly see this week's widely-publicised exercise in campaigning journalism on public attitudes to rape.

"Rape: Our Blame Culture" was the headline on Wednesday's report of a national opinion poll by the Irish Examiner/Red C which found that significant minorities of respondents had suggested that women might bear some responsibility for their being raped - for example, by wearing revealing clothes, consuming alcohol or drugs, or walking through dangerous areas.

Wednesday's Irish Examiner editorial, "We must stop blaming the victims", referred to "neanderthal beliefs", pretty much anticipating the subsequent consensus of media discussions about what the survey appeared to indicate.

But is this reasonable? Does the word "blame" in this context carry the same meaning as "responsibility"? The pollsters, not the respondents, chose the language, and the language of the rape issue is loaded and ideologically booby-trapped.

If you ask someone whether a person who ventures into a dangerous situation bears some responsibility if something bad befalls them, can you call this blaming the victim? Could such a view not simply reflect a belief that people should not take unnecessary risks?

If the Examiner poll had asked respondents whether they believed that the culpability of an assailant is reduced by the actions, dress or sexual history of a victim, I think it is reasonable to anticipate that close to 100 per cent would have vehemently rejected such a notion.

The issue of what constitutes responsible behaviour is complex. Does any parent of a teenage girl or young woman seriously believe that the way his/her daughter dresses is utterly irrelevant to the question of her safety in a public place? To advise that women should dress prudently, mindful of the evil that may lurk around the corner, is not neanderthal. It is sensible.

About one in 12 alleged rapes is reported to the Garda, and less than 10 per cent of allegations result in convictions. These figures are broadly similar to the UK where, interestingly, one of the problems is that the definition of rape has been massively extended in response to relentless lobbying by rape crisis activists. The result has been a conflation of concepts to the point where every episode in which a woman says she did not consent to sex is accorded the same - enormous - degree of gravity.

However, the introduction of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, by reversing the onus of proof to require the accused to show that consent had not been withheld, had the opposite effect to that intended. Juries have since shown a marked reluctance to treat an incident in which there is a dispute between two people on the question of consent in the same way as a case in which a woman is attacked at knifepoint and brutally assaulted.

The Red C survey found that significant proportions of respondents under various demographic headings felt that a woman who had consumed drugs or alcohol might bear some responsibility in the event of being raped. This, too, has been presented as outrageous.

But, again, it depends on how you define rape. A woman who says she did not consent to sex, say the lobbyists, has been raped. But, because a woman cannot remember saying either Yes or No does not mean that she did not give, or appear to give, her consent to sexual intercourse.

Activists disingenuously seek to depict all such cases as episodes of a man having sex with the prone body of a woman in an alcoholic stupor. But someone in an alcoholic blackout, who will subsequently be unable to remember anything of what is happening, will often appear to be functioning normally, conversing and interacting in a manner that renders tomorrow's amnesia impossible to anticipate.

Is consent to be a matter of reasonable understanding or retrospective deliberation by one party to the encounter? It is ludicrous enough for a woman to sober up and say that, although she cannot remember a thing, she is not the kind of person who would have consented to sex.

For this to be the approach of the legal system is surely unconscionable.