Have you ever had your drink spiked ?

Nevyn

Mikel wrote: »

The more I read threads like these I realise that those who campaign on 'women's issues' don't have the foggiest clue what they are doing.

Unfortunately
we don't have the same grassroots feminism groups that other countries have.

Mikel wrote: »

I remember the story recently about a woman who was assaulted and had to travel halfway across the country to be examined because the was no sexual assault unit in her local hospital.
They should have held a protest about that, or a hunger strike, or whipped up a storm on Liveline. In other words approached it in a practical way by highlighting a real black and white outrage.

I've been there, when I was WRO in college I spent 14 hours with a student after she was raped, the local hospital had no rape kids and they were trying to get a hold of a local dr who was certified to do the exam and take the forensic samples needed. In the end I had to go with her on the train to Dublin with her still in her torn nightdress with clothes over them and with plastic bags on her hands.

I do lobby my T.D.s about issues and blog about them as well, we need more people to be aware of the issues and to get them to start taking action even taking the 2 mins to send an email can have an impact.

bellapip

I recently did a study through the night, for four weekends at four major dublin(only) A&E departments, to get an outline of the amount of (predominantly) young women entering through the dooors.
Now be it through injury or alcohol, drugs, or a combination of all, I went with an open mind.

After the first number of hours, and based on the fact that my study was based on young women and their after effects of alcohol consumpion, I did wonder if there would be a genuine case of Non drunkenness or actual interference.

I did expect to find women who would not arrive where I was stationed, and would end up at the Rotunda hospital for sexual assault, so I covered that base too.

Just so that we are clear, I am in no way saying that a drunk is fair game.
Sexual assualt, or any form of interaction where one partner is not consenting due to lack of understanding under any guise, is not acceptable, full stop....

However, the sad, awful and horrific thing was that the number of very young women, girls in their early twenties, who attended A&E, thinking they had been sexually assaulted, (most proved inconclusive or untrue) turned out to be so comatose with alcohol that not only were their levels high enough to cause near fatal organ failure, they seemed to think that their drinks had been spiked.

The Sexual assault unit had to my knowledge on two weekends, two cases, both as I sadly found out had proved conclusively to be rape cases.

In nearly all cases of females arriving in A&E that I observed, be it injury or otherwise, once they had stopped vomiting, they were either clueless to where they were and scared, or they were screaming blue murder.

I have had awful drunken nights, and I am a mammy, so my sympathy and empathy are very strong.
I worry that our culture is so that it is seen as cool to be drunk and even cooler to not remember.
Every memory lost is gone forever, that is scary as ****.

Bell

taram

Was out with a friend of mine when we bumped into two of her classmates. Told them I was going home in about 45 mins when they enquired if we were going onto the club attached to the bar. They bought us a drink each a fruit cocktail thing, and I could see them the entire time, seemed grand. They must have gotten the bartender to pop the alcohol into my friend's, she started being quite giddy and giggly after 2 drinks (she's Muslim and never drinks). I smelt her drink, clearly alcoholic, and they knew she doesn't drink. I grabbed her and got out of there. Creeps!

Another friend had her drink spiked with random pills, actually lifted the pint glass to see one of them fizzing at the bottom...very incompentant drugger :P

Acacia

ntlbell wrote: »

Look,

The way I see it is this..

The girl in the rape crisis centre didn't do her job ( a volunteer who has volunteered to help women who were raped)
then the doctor didn't do his ( a person who usually give up their whole lives to help others)

then the people of boards are out to get her...

There's a pattern here...

Yeah, the pattern being that there's a 'blame the victim' culture connected to rape in this country, historically and continuing up to now, if the replies on this forum are anything to go by.

And Loladub didn't say anyone was 'out to get her'.

Mikel

Acacia wrote: »

Yeah, the pattern being that there's a 'blame the victim' culture connected to rape in this country, historically and continuing up to now, if the replies on this forum are anything to go by.

Thats balls. No one here is 'blaming the victim', and I don't think it's the general consensus in the country either.
There are a lot of people throwing around the accusation of 'blaming the victim though'.
Pointing out that alcohol seems to be a common denominator in a lot of these situations and that people bear some responsibility for their situations is not the same as attaching blame.
This is a nuance that escapes a lot of people who like to have their own worldview reinforced.

Nevyn

Yes people do stupid things which put themselves at risk but that does not mean its ok for people to take advantage. We should have proper health and safety sex ed in this county with a section on consent.

watna

The only person I've ever known to have their drink spiked was male. We were on our J1 and a group of people whent toTijuana in Mexico. I stayed in the apartment because I wasnt well. I heard my friend and her bf arrive in quie early and he was just out of it. Screaming and seeing snakes in the corner and falling everywhere. We'd been drinking every night for about 6 weeks and I'd never seen him like this. We had to put him to bed and basically hold him down. He was talking gibberish and rolling around the plae and shrieking. Luckily we were giggling at him but looking back it wasn't funy. What had happened is that my friend bought two drinks from the waiter - it was two for one happy hour so everyone was ordering two drinks for themselves. He delivered them to her and she handed one over to her bf. He felt something solid in his drink and said it to my friend who decided to not take any chances. She said that he started to go funny as they were crossing the border and then he went in to the state I saw him in. It was obviously intended for my friend but it was lucky there was a good group of them and he got home with no harm done.

I had a very bad night on the vodka once. I completely blacked out for most of the night. I can remember reaching my hand out to get in the taxi, then I remember puking outside the club, the waking up the next morning. The thought that I had been spiked flitted in to my mind for about two minutes til I copped on and realised that it was due to the large amount of vodka I'd imbibed.

I think the attitudes on this thread are why people don't come out about getting their drink spiked. They're probably afraid that people will dismiss them as being drunk. I beleive most people when they say it was different to being drunk. I think people know their own bodies and the way it reacts to alcohol. I agree some people may use the drink spiked excuse but not as any as some posters here are implying.

Nerin

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes people do stupid things which put themselves at risk but that does not mean its ok for people to take advantage. We should have proper health and safety sex ed in this county with a section on consent.

we need proper sex ed full stop. Very good point watna,peoples attitudes are crazy. Not everyone gets their drink spiked,not everyone is raging drunk. You can't generalise.

Acacia

Mikel wrote: »

Thats balls. No one here is 'blaming the victim', and I don't thinkit's the general consensus in the country either.
There are a lot of people throwing around the accusation of 'blaming the victim though'.
Pointing out that alcohol seems to be a common denominator in a lot of these situations and that people bear some responsibility for their situations is not the same as attaching blame.
This is a nuance that escapes a lot of people who like to have their own worldview reinforced.

I didn't say anybody on this thread was blaming the victim. I said there is a pattern of blaming rape victims in Ireland, and this is reflected in the less-than-sympathetic attitudes of some of the replies here. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

People should bear responsibility when they drink alcohol, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to be taking advantage of. Where does getting them to accept responsibility end and getting them to accept blame begin? Saying ''You drank, you have to accept (some?) responsibility for being raped'' sounds an awful lot like blaming the victim to me, and if I thought I would get that response from somebody if I was raped, I don't know if I would say anything at all. I think that's how a lot of rape victims feel in Ireland, and that's what I mean by there being a 'blame the victim' culture here.

Judging by the kind of prison sentences rapists and sex offenders get in this country, the offender certainly isn't getting much blame. There has historically been a 'blame the victim' thing in Ireland- look at the amount of young women who were sent to Magdalene Asylums because apparently it was their fault they were raped. The situation has improved obviously, but it seems to me that there's a long way to go.

And I'm not trying to enforce my 'world view' on anyone, just giving my opinion. If you don't agree, that's fine.

Mikel

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes people do stupid things which put themselves at risk but that does not mean its ok for people to take advantage. We should have proper health and safety sex ed in this county with a section on consent.

Exactly what I'm talking about.
Nobody has said or implied that's it ok to take advantage.
I believe that is the general opinion here and if you asked everyone in the country 99.9999999% would agree.

That's as textbook an example of a straw man argument as you are ever likely to see.

Is that really what you perceive from this thread?
A few pages ago a poster said you shouldn't 'condone' the actions of anyone who spikes a drink.... as if that's what anyone was saying.
Add in the usual accusations of 'blaming the victim' which no one has done either and you can see why these discussions always end in the same place.

I can have sympathy with anyone who was sexually assaulted without unthinkingly accepting whatever rationalisation they have come up with for why it happened, and it doesn't mean I blame her for it.

I can think that women bear some responsibility for their own safety without condoning the actions of anyone who takes advantage of them.

Some people's minds don't seem to be able to handle this, it all seems to be black and white.
You have to agree 100% with the woman involved, or else you apparently think she was a slut who was begging for it and lies about it afterwards.

In theory education on consent is a good idea, but if it was implemented it would be done to suit an ideological agenda.

In any event, I don't think anyone who has sex with a prone unconscious woman is under any illusions about the right and wrong of it.

LolaDub

I think where we are at now is;

-drinks do get spiked, perhaps not as often as we might think but it does happen.
-when it does happen it is a horrendous experience regardless of the outcome.
-sexual assault is a terrible thing to happen to anyone.
-the culture of victim blaming or blaming in part does not encourage victims to come forward.
-the lack of facilities to test these things do not encourage people to come forward.
-the lack of suitable support and facilities do not encourage people to come forward.
-the possibility of overdoing alcohol should be considered by a person thinking they have been spiked.
-getting tested is an important way to confirm yourself you have been spiked and if testing is more prevalent more accurate results on this will appear.
-people should exercise more caution in taking care of their drinks, how much they drink and who they let buy drinks for them.
-regardless of taking drink nobody is responsible for someone else hurting them or taking advantage of them.

Zaph

I think that pretty much sums it up and it's just going around in circles at this stage. Unless somebody has some startling revelation to add to this, I'm sorely tempted to lock this thread while it's still relatively civil.

Mikel

Acacia wrote: »

People should bear responsibility when they drink alcohol, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to be taking advantage of. Where does getting them to accept responsibility end and getting them to accept blame begin? Saying ''You drank, you have to accept (some?) responsibility for being raped'' sounds an awful lot like blaming the victim to me, and if I thought I would get that response from somebody if I was raped, I don't know if I would say anything at all. I think that's how a lot of rape victims feel in Ireland, and that's what I mean by there being a 'blame the victim' culture here

Again, NOBODY HAS SAID IT'S OK FOR THEM TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF

So you don't think women have a responsibility to consider their own safety and act accordingly?
Maybe you don't understand the difference between 'responsibility' and 'blame'. The fact that you think it sounds like blaming them says more about you really.

Judging by the kind of prison sentences rapists and sex offenders get in this country, the offender certainly isn't getting much blame. There has historically been a 'blame the victim' thing in Ireland- look at the amount of young women who were sent to Magdalene Asylums because apparently it was their fault they were raped.

No, they were put in laundries because they were unmarried mothers.

And I'm not trying to enforce my 'world view' on anyone, just giving my opinion. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I didn't say enforce. I said reinforce.
But judging by above the difference would probably be lost on you.

Zaph

Ah feck it, it looks like this is starting on another lap so I'm locking it.