Going pro

Savman · 11-09-2008 12:20pm

I'm amazed people genuinely think that launching into a huge stressful project is in anyway linked with some kind of life ambition. Being in debt is not fun, having bills come in the door that you can't pay is really not fun. Sure, it makes you more determined but generally speaking it's rife with problem after problem.

This is why so many people fail, you have to have an old school mentality and you have to really, and I mean really, love doing what you do otherwise you will fall at one of the many hurdles.

When you do the maths on it, financially speaking you won't be any better off than if you just took on a standard career job in any other industry such as IT or whatever. Sales & Marketing is where the real wages are, so don't do this if your motivation is purely financial because the Arts don't work like that.

"It takes a genius to get paid for what you would gladly do for free."

dav nagle · 11-09-2008 12:21pm

jtsuited wrote: »

haha. the background alone is vomit-inducing. which means it'll probably do very well!

Very true! :)So long as they keep the vomit off the cash!

dav nagle · 11-09-2008 12:29pm

Savman wrote: »

I'm amazed people genuinely think that launching into a huge stressful project is in anyway linked with some kind of life ambition. Being in debt is not fun, having bills come in the door that you can't pay is really not fun. Sure, it makes you more determined but generally speaking it's rife with problem after problem.

This is why so many people fail, you have to have an old school mentality and you have to really, and I mean really, love doing what you do otherwise you will fall at one of the many hurdles.

When you do the maths on it, financially speaking you won't be any better off than if you just took on a standard career job in any other industry such as IT or whatever. Sales & Marketing is where the real wages are, so don't do this if your motivation is purely financial because the Arts don't work like that.

"It takes a genius to get paid for what you would gladly do for free."

I have been running a business for the last 6 years, my parents are proud of me, my friends are proud of me. The reason I get business is because I love music, I make sure to rub that love off every person I meet. Then they tell their friends and family and my reputation grows. People call in off the street looking for lessons. The idea of running a business professionally as opposed to the home is the possibility of expansion and development. If I wanted to JUST make money I would have been a sales man in a car lot. I could sell sand to the arabs, you know that. I am not doing this to make it rich, I am doing this to expand and survive in a competitive area that I want to be part of. The difference between working in IT or marketing is that from my experience its a 9-5 boring job that people would love to get out of. They have overheads, and some like it, I accept that but I don't so I am hoping my grant comes through, if it does I am making the next step. Dublin enterprise board want my business to develop and expand, they don't want me working from home. Why do you think this is all about making money? Backing tracks, guitar lessons, bands its all part of the bigger picture, happiness! Creativity is the key to success!

ZV Yoda · 11-09-2008 2:29pm

Best of luck Dav. You clearly have a passion for music. If I ever need to have anything recorded professionally, I'd really hope to be working with somebody with your passion for music.

dav nagle wrote: »

The difference between working in IT or marketing is that from my experience its a 9-5 boring job that people would love to get out of. They have overheads, and some like it, I accept that but I don't so I am hoping my grant comes through, if it does I am making the next step. Dublin enterprise board want my business to develop and expand, they don't want me working from home. Why do you think this is all about making money? Backing tracks, guitar lessons, bands its all part of the bigger picture, happiness! Creativity is the key to success!

Don’t pity all the 9-5 folks. I’m sure they’re not all “bored” with job security, paid holidays & a pension. Many of them are passionate about music too… but may like music as a hobby… they may not feel the same way about music if they had to do it to make ends meet (instead of just for the love of it)

… and you’re right, creativity is crucial for success… but it’s nice to have that juicy grant to kick start the process.. and don’t forget who’s taxes are paying for your grant… the same people who could well be some of your biggest customers one day!

Anyway - best of luck. Like you said, you don't want to look back one with regrets and say "I coulda been a contender".

Good on you for taking the leap of faith!

studiorat · 11-09-2008 2:41pm

ZV Yoda wrote: »

and don’t forget who’s taxes are paying for your grant… the same people who could well be some of your biggest customers one day!

WTF?
Actually, people working in music do pay tax. You might have the paid holidays, job security? and are being ripped off on a pension.
But there's much more to life than that.

Applying to the enterprise board is a serious amount of jumping through hoops as a few here will testify already. It's a big juicy grant if all you're is buying gear for a home set-up, stick the rest of the expenses into it and see how juicy it is. So I resent the inference by mr. yoda there that it's some sort of hand out and you should be thankful to him as a tax payer for it!

Me I sat through the why do you want to do this and do you know how hard it is to run a business bullsh1t. An decided to just get started and not bother with the grant. There was no way I would have been able to convince them anyway...

dav nagle · 11-09-2008 2:46pm

ZV Yoda wrote: »

Best of luck Dav. You clearly have a passion for music. If I ever need to have anything recorded professionally, I'd really hope to be working with somebody with your passion for music.

Don’t pity all the 9-5 folks. I’m sure they’re not all “bored” with job security, paid holidays & a pension. Many of them are passionate about music too… but may like music as a hobby… they may not feel the same way about music if they had to do it to make ends meet (instead of just for the love of it)

… and you’re right, creativity is crucial for success… but it’s nice to have that juicy grant to kick start the process.. and don’t forget who’s taxes are paying for your grant… the same people who could well be some of your biggest customers one day!

Anyway - best of luck. Like you said, you don't want to look back one with regrets and say "I coulda been a contender".

Good on you for taking the leap of faith!

Thanks master yoda. I have a friend in IT and he is earning a fortune. So much money he can pay for creme de le creme of audio gear, we chat regulary. He sold me his protico and apogee so he could get even bigger and better and yes he is a deadly engineer, way better than me.. (at drums!)

He would love to go full time but the money is too sweet where he is at and I respect him for that. The thing with me is that I got a bad leaving cert and tried a few subjects like therapy and computer programming along the way all of which wasn't me. So as a soul survivor I have made my living from music, if God graced me with any other talent I would have taken a secure road no doubt, I am doing this because I have to, it's what I am meant to do (according to my granny) she is the best!

The tax comes from the workers and thats why DEB have been so rigirous that I have my act together, they don't want to be throwing good money away on fickle businesses, so yes it is a pressure and a certain amount of responsibility. Thanks for the kind words and support Yoda.

studiorat · 11-09-2008 2:56pm

http://www.myspace.com/popstarstudios

You're a sick man Dav, ya here me? Sick!

dav nagle · 11-09-2008 3:53pm

studiorat wrote: »

http://www.myspace.com/popstarstudios

You're a sick man Dav, ya here me? Sick!

hah hahaahahahhahahah

Its disgusting isn't it. It smells of sick puke. Lucky I have Blackhorse recordings, 2 different aliases never hurt anyone. One for all and all for one..:eek:

ZV Yoda · 11-09-2008 4:01pm

Hi Studiorat...
...not sure why my post caused offence... that certainly wasn't the intent. God knows I've gotten enough good advice from loads of people on here (including from your good self).

I wish dav all the best. My post was simply saying "don't pity all 9-5ers... and creativity is important for success, but there's a lot more besides - including money & customers".

studiorat wrote: »

WTF?
Actually, people working in music do pay tax. You might have the paid holidays, job security? and are being ripped off on a pension.
But there's much more to life than that.

…I never suggested that people working in music don't pay taxes, so not sure why you mentioned it. No doubt you are right about rip off pension schemes though!...

studiorat wrote: »

WTF?
… I resent the inference by mr. yoda there that it's some sort of hand out and you should be thankful to him as a tax payer for it!

…I didn't say it was a hand out (I thought grants generally have to be paid back?). I'm saying that businesses need more than just enthusiasm to succeed… grants help (as do customers, mentoring, networking ... and all of the things everybody else mentioned already.

dav nagle wrote: »

Thanks master yoda. I have a friend in IT and he is earning a fortune. So much money he can pay for creme de le creme of audio gear, we chat regulary. He sold me his protico and apogee so he could get even bigger and better and yes he is a deadly engineer, way better than me.. (at drums!)

Best of luck Dav… if God had graced me with any talent, I’d would probably be working in IT, earning a fortune, with a studio full of the best gear… and I’d be a much better drummer than I am!

As it is, I’ll have to make do with my converted garage, budget equipment and average skills. Still, I enjoy doing it & it keeps me off the streets!

Savman · 11-09-2008 4:48pm

dav nagle wrote: »

hah hahaahahahhahahah

Its disgusting isn't it. It smells of sick puke. Lucky I have Blackhorse recordings, 2 different aliases never hurt anyone. One for all and all for one..:eek:

Actually that idea has €€€ written all over it. Decent market for that type of stuff IMHO.

ogy · 11-09-2008 4:51pm

Its disgusting isn't it. It smells of sick puke.

this should be your myspace 'about me' thing:)

but in all seriousness, fair play to you for getting it together and going for it, fingers crossed it works out for you!

dav nagle · 11-09-2008 5:19pm

ogy wrote: »

this should be your myspace 'about me' thing:)

but in all seriousness, fair play to you for getting it together and going for it, fingers crossed it works out for you!

Thanks Ogy,

The main thing has been doing the business plan, so head wrecking and long and drawn out, never taught I would see the end of it. They have to be so tight and for a first timer it was an awful amount of un rewarding work

studiorat · 11-09-2008 6:06pm

Thanks Yoda,
Bit more knee jerk than usual today.
It was the don't forget who pay's your taxes line...
The grant must be met with an equal investment from what I remember.

It's tough enough to get a business idea together and be taken seriously by a bank or some such... But try telling them you want to start a studio and it's twice as hard.

Please note I'm not referring to anyone specifically here..
Small studios starting out these days looking for new business are in direct competition with guys at home who do it as a hobby. Get a young band in for a few hundred and buy a new mic or whatever kind of operation.

There was a time when there two were in different markets and one didn't infringe on the other. But nowadays "our man" with his fancy home studio is using that money to improve the studio whilst taking a gig that could have gone to someones business and not paying tax. Apart from driving down the price of the product and the quality. He's creating an immediate unfair advantage against the start up guy looking for that same business.

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 6:46pm

QuadLeo wrote: »

I I know of quality studios just outside Dublin charging 100 per day all the time.

Huh?

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 6:48pm

dav nagle wrote: »

Good posts,

I am single and have no baggage mentally

Huh?

dav nagle · 11-09-2008 6:50pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Huh?

As in I am rightly focused on the job with nothing hold me back!

Huh? Your like a big monkey!

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 6:52pm

Savman wrote: »

When you do the maths on it, financially speaking you won't be any better off than if you just took on a standard career job in any other industry such as IT or whatever.

That in it self would be a significant success in the Music Biz

dav nagle · 11-09-2008 6:55pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That in it self would be a significant success in the Music Biz

Don't mind the cynicism

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 6:57pm

Dav,

A grant comes from the government, they get it through tax, I and I'm sure, others here pay tax....

Therefore WE'RE paying your grant .....

I implore you to succeed!!

dav nagle · 11-09-2008 7:01pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Dav,

A grant comes from the government, they get it through tax, I and I'm sure others here pay tax....

Therefore WE'RE paying your grant .....

I implore you to succeed!!

Would you look at the old timer joining the conversation 10 posts too late! Lol!

I never have claimed the dole over the last 6 years as a musician thats saying something right? I don't fail anyway its not in my make up you fools!!!!! I destroy and rape and pillage all before me ... hahahah

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 7:14pm

dav nagle wrote: »

Would you look at the old timer joining the conversation 10 posts too late! Lol!

I remember when all around here were green ..... and aren't they Gardai very young these days..... Harumph?

Did I miss something? Been cuttin' tracks man .....

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 7:17pm

dav nagle wrote: »

I never have claimed the dole over the last 6 years as a musician thats saying something right? I don't fail anyway its not in my make up you fools!!!!! I destroy and rape and pillage all before me ... hahahah

I'm lucky enough never to have claimed the Dole after 26 years!

sei046 · 11-09-2008 7:33pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I remember when all around here were green ..... and aren't they Gardai very young these days..... Harumph?

Did I miss something? Been cuttin' tracks man .....

One of the few here who actually seems to record sound instead of sit here and talk about it!

studiorat · 11-09-2008 7:40pm

Cuttin' tracks in a field in Offaly no doubt with that big tractor of yours...

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 7:51pm

sei046 wrote: »

One of the few here who actually seems to record sound instead of sit here and talk about it!

I do enough of that too, BeGob .......

The track I'm doing at the moment is with Martin O'Neill - bet you know him? Great singer and bass player - and the drummer from that lot Blue Moose, Shane. A fine player with great sounding drums.

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 7:52pm

studiorat wrote: »

Cuttin' tracks in a field in Offaly no doubt with that big tractor of yours...

2 tractors Horse, one with a roof one without ....

studiorat · 11-09-2008 7:56pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

2 tractors Horse, one with a roof one without ....

be the lord! in case one gets stuck in the mud like?
good man!

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 7:57pm

studiorat wrote: »

be the lord! in case one gets stuck in the mud like?
good man!

One for raining one for not, I'm not sure if the 'not' still starts .... Harumph

sei046 · 11-09-2008 8:36pm

I know a shane guitar player alright. Suppose to be pretty good. Never actually seen blue moose.

PaulBrewer · 11-09-2008 8:47pm

sei046 wrote: »

I know a shane guitar player alright. Suppose to be pretty good. Never actually seen blue moose.

Nor I!

Going pro

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