is wow in trouble?

copeyhagen

as the title says, there seems to be much more hype and anticipation with the forthcoming release of warhammer : age of reckoning than when aoc came out.

i havent played wow in about 3 weeks and couldnt be arsed playin again till wotlk comes out.

tbh im more excited about trying out WAR than i am about wotlk at the moment.

seems a lot of the wow forum users have been posting in the warhammer forum, the big question is, is world of warcraft fooked?!

Ivan

The short answer is no.

The long answer, starts with another question; how exactly do you quantify "fooked"?

Kiith

Nothing is going to take Warcraft off its throne for a few years yet, at which time they'll bring out a sequel. People will keep leaving until WotLK comes out, then everyone who has played the game will come back, and be as addicted as before. Its also got the benefit of a more "cartoony" graphics engine, which doesnt show its age like other, more reasistic engines would.

nix

tbh in my eyes AoC got more hype than warhammer =/

Not The Real Scarecrow

Same as the thread starter , I haven't played in about a month and doubt if I will go back , even with the new expansion.Doubt it will be in trouble though, from what I saw when playing it has an extremely loyal following.Just not my cup of tea any more.

ZorbaTehZ

nix wrote: »

tbh in my eyes AoC got more hype than warhammer =/

+1

WotLK is going to be awesome. Ill still probably buy war when it's out retail (like I did with aoc ) but I'd be beyond surprised if it managed to get to the stage where people were saying WoW is fooked.

Ass

We all know that WolfQuest. is the real WoW killer.

Kiith

Well, actually, the next big thing in MMO's in http://www.hellokittyonline.com/us/

smellslikeshoes

After what I would consider the complete and utter failure of AOC even after the amount of hype it had I wouldn't be too worried about War knocking Wow off its throne anytime soon.

KilOit

WAR has being getting some positive reviews from good wow players not those wow hate mockering crew that dis WoW on every opportunity they get like the ones saying Aoc was 10 times better than WoW then it falls straight on it's face, But to the question it's in no way gonna kill wow, I think WAR will have a decent following without hurting WoW to much

toxick

what blizzard is doing at the moment, is quite smart. They are pre-patching the new pre-wotlk patch soon.. ie just around were WAR will be relised.. so that will drag a few players back, to try out the new talents, level up inscription.. and mess around.

But with the new beta notes, were they have nerfed mostly all the classes, and put some stoppers to raiding(ie 1 pot per boss fight, downraking gone ect) a lot of people are annoyed at it.

I say blizzard have planned on what exactly they are gonna relise and when, to try and maximise the amount of players to get back from WAR.

WAR will have a nice following, and will take some wow players permantly, if it stays up and becomes a succes.. however it will never kill WoW..

WoW has roughly 12 million subscirbes so the game wont die for another long time.. and if WAR does hold a big threat, Blizzards next gen mmo will more then likely shoot them out of the water.

Also a lot of die-hard PvE wow players, will more then likely stick to WoW as WAR is a full blown PvP game..

the next month or so will be very intresting, to watch how blizzard and myhtic play things.

my 2c

Schism

Kiith wrote: »

Nothing is going to take Warcraft off its throne for a few years yet, at which time they'll bring out a sequel. People will keep leaving until WotLK comes out, then everyone who has played the game will come back, and be as addicted as before. Its also got the benefit of a more "cartoony" graphics engine, which doesnt show its age like other, more reasistic engines would.

Not to divert from the topic too much but do you think a sequel to WoW is viable? Where could they go with a sequel that they couldn't go with an expansion, graphics engine aside.

toxick

Schism wrote: »

Not to divert from the topic too much but do you think a sequel to WoW is viable? Where could they go with a sequel that they couldn't go with an expansion, graphics engine aside.

i doubt they will bring out a sequel. Blizzard are currently working on a next gen mmo, which is currently very secertive. i say that will be out in last quater of 09 or 2010 sometime.

nix

toxick wrote: »

i doubt they will bring out a sequel. Blizzard are currently working on a next gen mmo, which is currently very secertive. i say that will be out in last quater of 09 or 2010 sometime.

fingers crossed for WoD or WoS

toxick

i doubt they will be called World Of...

Starcraft universe has been mentioned a few times, and when i was at the worldwide invitional.. they did say Starcraft universe.. but that could of just been teasing us :P:)

Nehaxak

Blizz also announced PVE to PVP transfers today, so another nice marketing trick really.
Can't see Wow ending anytime soon to anything but another game from Blizzard.

mayordenis

AoC 100% got more hype and there was way more expectance that it would dethrone WoW.
Not a ****ing chance WAR will. if anything WAR is ****ed won't even compete in the long term against LOTRO

toxick

WAR has a way more fan base then AoC.. The brand name is massive, which already gets a hell of a lot of players intrested in t. By the makers of Dark Age of Camelot, so pretty most their fan bse will be playing it, as it seems like a replica of DAoC just with a massive upgrade.

WoW pvpers will try out WAR to see the RvR system, as wow was always spose to be a PvE game.. WAR is a PvP game.. so a few will move and try it out.

yes AoC was hyped a good lot, but warhammer already had the player base behind it, had the brand name behind it, etc etc..

If they have a good launch QAR can outpass LOTRO no problem, since LOTRO dont even have 500k subscriptions even.

][cEMAN**

I think blizzard should stop trying to compete with it. If they compete, you'll get those who will go to WAR just to try it out, and ignore the WotLK expansion. Then they'll come back anyway, but the impact of the initial release of WotKL won't be as pronounced.

If they simply wait till people get tired of the new thing, then put it out, I think it would get a bigger response. But then maybe that's the idea. The last expansion slowed EVERYTHING down and crashed a couple of servers. The login times were crazy as well (iirc). Maybe this is a way of them weeding out the die hard players and letting them get playing, then have everyone else come back when they get bored of War, and the new areas won't be so packed.

The new island was a perfect example of what happens when everyone packs into a new tight spot...

Gummy Panda

WOW won't be touched by WAR. WOW's biggest strength is its PVE, while WAR's is pvp. There endgames match those strengths.

Tbh, i play on raiding in wow and pvping in war.

String

War wont have as near as many players as wow. Im hoping war will have about 500,000 at least to keep the community in europe going but I think Warhammer will be good for mmos. It means more competition and so more new stuff and more dedication from the developers. I will be trying out wotlk but if i find it repetitive end game i wont be playing it until next expansion or wow 2 or whatever. And I know it will be the same old stuff.

squarei

After 3 years of WoW I rerolled to WAR last week and I've already quit my WoW subscription. WoW is so ugly graphically, boringly easy in PvE and based purely on setups and luck in PvP.

inb4 fanboys qqing that WoW is good somehow

Woden

"Additional grass areas have been added to the enemy faction's zones. This grass is exceptionally green." :rolleyes:

Its a good thing WAR came along so you could stop playing that **** game and cancel your subscription. God only knows how many more years you would have wasted doing something you didn't enjoy!

Varkov

Kiith wrote: »

Well, actually, the next big thing in MMO's in http://www.hellokittyonline.com/us/

Don't forget the tie-in MMOFPS co developed with Bungie.

Zarbon

WoW won't die anytime soon. There are far too many fanboys, who alone could keep it going for years. Best of luck to Warhammer though. Blizzard deserve a nice kick in the teeth.

mayordenis

Zarbon wrote: »

WoW won't die anytime soon. There are far too many fanboys, who alone could keep it going for years. Best of luck to Warhammer though. Blizzard deserve a nice kick in the teeth.

tell me one thing - just 1 thing blizzard have done wrong?

they make the games - you don't have to play them - this kick in the teeth stuff is nonsense

JackieChan

mayordenis wrote: »

tell me one thing - just 1 thing blizzard have done wrong?

they make the games - you don't have to play them - this kick in the teeth stuff is nonsense

+1

They even provide a few jobs down in Cork!

Varkov

Blizzard wouldn't give me any gold for a mount :mad: fucers

Funky

I don't think there's such thing as a WoW killer, it's too big to be killed by anything. But I'm pretty sure WAR will take a slice of their subscribers.

After all, for those PvP oriented you have more to do from lvl 1 than you do at 70 in WoW....

KilOit

Well hopefully WAR will take all the whiny pvp kiddies away from WoW so it's no skin off my nose i play WoW for the pve

Nehaxak

KilOit wrote: »

Well hopefully WAR will take all the whiny pvp kiddies away from WoW so it's no skin off my nose i play WoW for the pve

Funny that, always found players who enjoyed pvp (world and BG - arena is not pvp and I will admit that a lot of "kiddies" play fishbowl arena) to be more mature than those who play wow for the PVE only aspects.

I find PVE aspect of wow to be unskilled, repetative, boring, lazy and may as well be playing a single player game in a linear scripted environment.

Go setup a private server yourself and waltz through all the content there is to go through, get all the gear you want and then really come to realise that the fun to be had and the continued ability to stay playing a game for most people will be from the pvp aspects or more importantly from the actual real player interaction and not from linear computer generated and controlled NPC's et all.

Most people who dislike pvp are generally unskilled players (which is fine, no probs with that at all) who just can't cope with having to need skill to play a game and would rather just push buttons and get welfare pve gear with little of no effort involved on their part.

Games like PlanetSide (pure player versus player) still have a following after all these years while games like EQ2 which is technically miles ahead of Wow, failed miserably because barely anyone is playing it and there's feck all if any PVP content to do at all in it.

KilOit

I wouldn't say because i don't like pvp in wow that im unskilled i consider myself a pretty good player and sunwell ain't no walk in the park,

I played planetside for 2+ years and was on the Werner scoreboard im all for compedative pvp play but WoW doesn't do it for me for a pvp game

Ivan

My god, where did this generation of PvP elitists come from? They completely snuck up on me.

Just to clarify, arena elitists look down on PvP elitists the way PvP'ers look down on PvE'ers.

I dont really want to get sucked into yet another circular argument, so I'll say this, all aspects of WoW requires skill. If you cant see that; then you are doing it wrong.

Nehaxak

Well what I'm trying to get at then is that if blizzard alienate the mass amount of players who get their enjoyment purely from pvp, then they will go elsewhere. In turn effecting wow itself and with WaR there now and only improving, those players that leave will be hard pushed to come back at all even if Blizzard do eventually cop on.

BTW I do know raiding and all requires skill, I didn't mean it like that and I suppose I generalised too much in that regards

Scram

Well for my 2 cents! i Dont think WoW is going to be at the same level as it was ever. Atm we got WAr and Aoc and while there not everyones "cup of tea" if your sick of WoW (like i am), and lot of gamers are im sure) your going to take a stand or pay for 2 MMO's like a retard.

Atm im trying War, in my Eyes Aoc Failed me and i really really hate to have to try Wow again with WOTLK because i know its the same endless grind as TBC. I dont want to raid ever again after TBC and since PVP is all there is unless WOTLK can offer a lot more PVP wise than War then im not going back.

Heck games like COD4 and Crysis are more entertaining than the ****e WoW Battlegrounds over and over and over again.

Ivan

Calling people who pay for 2 MMOs retards is akin to people who dont play MMOs calling us retards for paying a sub.

I have 4 WoW subs, and 1 War sub running atm.

Where do I sign-up for the special gaming Olympics?

On a more serious note, please refrain from blanketly insulting a large portion of MMO players.

Dont even get me started about the usual "WoW Battlegrounds are lame" tripe. If it's not for you, it's not for you. But enough with the belittling already.

Woden

Scram wrote: »

i really really hate to have to try Wow again with WOTLK

sorry I must have missed the part where someone is twisting your arm forcing you to play something you don't like.

Magill

lol at the wow hating, its the same old usual crap that comes with a new mmo, ppl get into it for a few months, "OMG AoC PVP owns the **** out of WOW LOlz noobs" or "WoW is easy lol, pve is for nerds". At the end of the day the reason WoW has so many subscribers is because there is nothing out there that can compete with it, for over 10 million ppl it is the MMO to play, its the top DAWG, its the bollox. Stats don't lie, and while some say WoW's pvp is boring, you only have to look at the amount of ppl that do arena's or grind on BG's, YOU might prefer the PvP in WAR, it doesnt mean everyone else has too. Wotlk looks good to me, alot of changes and some new PVP aspects with lake wintersomething, world pvp FTW, and the grind, you know.... some ppl like the grinding in wow, the rewarding feeling of dinging 60/70 or soon to be 80 is nice, getting that new epix from rep grinding.... it all feels good when you get it.

And Nehaxak, go raid BT and sunwell for the first with T5 gear, come back then and say it requires no skill, it obviously doesnt require the same kinds of skill that fps's or even PVP requires, but it really isn't easy, esspecially when your a progressive guild and not just farming.

Anti

I dunno, i certainly find pve more skillfull full then pvp for the classes i play lock/hunter. Hunter is kinda easymode as a simple macro is all i have do do while keeping and aye on my threat, and trapping something occasionaly. The lock is a hell of alot harder, keeping up dots on multiple targets... Well its not hard i suppose, but its harder then the hunter. And yeah places like MH are stupidly easy as i just have to spam soc. But then again, ive never been in a arena team with a higher then 1800 rating. But have been in a few decent pvp guilds. I have to agree that Bg's are unbelievebly boring. And world pvp on my relam is a few undead rogues ganking stupid lowbies at westfall/goldshire. Was quite entertaining watching 30+ lvl <10's trying to take down a mage last night. Poor Rp'ers were probably getting some kick out of it. I just sat back and laughed and 2 shotted the mage. Then got ganked myself. oh well.

Nehaxak

Yeah fine, PVE raiding requires some sort of skill I know that. Gave raiding up when TBC hit as I saw no point to it anymore and lost interest in it all probably due to being older than a lot of people in the game itself. Also work 8am to 7pm, have 2 kids and a life inbetween all of that so don't have the time anymore to put into raids either.

So for me anyway the skill and fun is in the pvp, even if it is repetitive in the BG's.

I'm playing my two accounts together at the same time for my Arena team, every intention of losing but have won a couple of games with just my shaman on follow and playing the hunter, so I am enjoying the bit of challenge in trying to beat 2 players at the same time but still find Arena an absolute bore. If you care to take a look at both the Us and EU official forums, you'll find I'm not alone in that opinion. So many people have complained about how crap Arena is that it's even thankfully forced their devs to reconsider the whole thing and to concentrate more on the BG's.

Blizzard are also trying to implement a participation part of the BG pvp, so rewards, honour, marks and so on are only given on a participation basis - to further stop the leeching from happening, regardless of being afk reported or not.

I understand what you're saying Magill about PVE but honestly, from what I see and experienced these days, PVE raiding, instances/heroics et all are a bore and on my server at least (and on Kul Tiras, and on SilverMoon before that) - PVE is mostly full of whining kids who get a boner from some epic drop or think their life means something special if they're in an arena team with anything above 1500 rating - it's the kiddie part of wow that I don't like nor never did.

At least in the BG or world pvp I can /spit on people after I kill them so I can get a kick out of the hate tells that usually come afterwards

Anyway...considering I couldn't even logon to WaR due to it's stupid queues at times at the weekend and cannot even think about logging into it during the week due to the rediculous queues - I'll still be playing Wow either way.
Also spent all of yesterday evening in wow in the BG's with my Hunter to get the honour for the pvp neck piece, dunno what it is but out of all my 70's I enjoy playing the hunter the most these days.

Nehaxak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rAtlp2dDPU

I rest my case in regards Arena, honestly, this just sums them up for me...

pedro ferio-vti

Nerdrage at it's finest there

PS lol at the I got Cycloned 3 times bit. It's not overpowered though

Funky

raided with the guy in the middle there when wow first came out

Magill

lol, that is pretty funny, i agree with you that the arena system is boring, i never agrued that, but you have to agree that at the very top end of arena PVP in wow are probably the most skilled PVP'ers in any MMO out there, even if most of them are kids, which brings me to another point, most gamers in any game are kids, it doesnt matter if your playing cs/css/wow/war/EVE/wc3/fifa, you will have a majority of kids. As far as im concerned mmo's are only ever fun if your playing with friends, ppl you actually like, playing by urself WILL be boring.

TheDoc

i find wow arena pvp like warcraft 3

Theres too much flavour of the month.

Its not down to skill, for the people winning, its the strength of their characters and the gear they have
It was like warcraft 3 when a new strat emerged that was "uber" and everyone would jump on that race.

But in wow obviously you cant jsut change.

But the skill for me, is in the counter strats.

For me personally, im always getting raped by rogues in BG, contstantly stunned and cant do anything, the skill for me, is that i can now counter rogues and demolish them.

I have to agree, wow is a very grinding game, pve end game raids are so so so long, BG's can get very repetitive and have no team work what so ever, in rair instances you get team work that is class.

But you have to remember these fall down to the people you play with, when i play instances/BG/Arena with my guildies, its great fun, and doesnt feel a grind, but when your playing with the kiddies ( who i always hate) its ****.

I did a kara run last night, ive been on wow for years, but did my first kara run last night, generally i get chars to 70 and leave them start new ones.

But i took the effort to go through kara, and had little kids rolling on priest items for " offspec" as they call, when i need for my main, and then was completely ****ed over, 5 hours of work and i got like a ****ing belt, its bollox...

Have to say might just completely stick in guild and not bother with pubs


I'm also pissed off and being constantly asked " how much + heal/ +dmg

As if this is the end all and be all, imo experience goes along way past your bonus stuff.

GO_Bear

Of course skill will shine through most of the time but , if it is close in terms of skill gear can decide it , that is what i did not like about WoW ( The PvP system included ) And this is not a rant on WoW , If it has such a vast player base it is doing several things right , but i was spoilt in terms of PvP as my first MMO was Dark Age of Camelot where the RvR system was unrivaled , and the gear problem was sorted by putting a hard cap on stats i.e +101 strenght was all you could get in the end , so every1 had capped stats . So daoc was a very skill based game ( Realm rank also affected but not all that much in my opinion)

TheDoc

I was never one for naming wow a skilled game..

I, more then most, have a slightly better insight into the pro gaming scene ( albeit a few years ago) and I remember being ringside during a match between SK and Pandemic...amongst alot of other matches. I was doing reports etc for the website, and was allowed gracefully to sit in with a good few team talks, seeing the prep etc.

The preperation for WoW arena is amazing , more then ive seen for alot of games, but it was not on tactics per say, it was about gear...

As i mentioned earlier there was always a flavour of the month, classes that together were "imba". This, and the hours that was spent by these guys researching gear, testing it etc was ridiculous.

I know for fact...I have an abundance of skill required to play games at a decent level. I've good micro, good hotkey allocations, pace, quick minded, communicative and fast reactions.

For any other game i nthe world, this is a bonus and lets me comepte at a decent level of enjoyment, however with wow, it counts really for nothing, because i'm not arsed sitting 5 hours through a raid...

The reason i mention this, is not so much a moan, i applaud those who have the patience for such, and im currently trying to research items etc and time to get them.

But I remember being present in a press conference, for journalists only, when wow was first announced, and one of the comments that stays with me to this day is " World of Warcraft will be a whole new mmorpg experience, in the way that, previous mmo's require long grinding and alot of time, but with WoW, the casual gamer can jump in any time, for any length of time, and experience the content hardcore gamers will experience, as the game adapts to your gameplay type"

That was official , from one of the dev team.

I have to say im a big fan of wow and i do find it immensly enjoyable, and i hope to god i find the time to be able to do a full kara run etc etc.

But I still think theres things they announced years ago, that they didnt deliver on.

And pvp is just a letdown imo... i played 15 AV games yesterday, I won 2 of them, I'm reliant on 15+ other players....who all want to go offensive, and constanyl leaving me on defence

Nehaxak

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

And pvp is just a letdown imo... i played 15 AV games yesterday, I won 2 of them, I'm reliant on 15+ other players....who all want to go offensive, and constanyl leaving me on defence

Wild guess here but I'm thinking you play Horde ?

I know what you're saying though and I agree. What I've been doing recently though is taking SH gy straight away then recalling with trinket to defend (usually on my own). Helps enough to send a fair few Alliance rushers back to SP gy, thus killing a lot of stupid Horde rushers and pushing a lot of them back in to defence. Other games I've just used the trinket continually to recall, kill a few and at least slow them down in the rush to kill Drek.
Keeps me interested anyway as otherwise AV can be a complete bore but still the most profitable in regards honour points earned.

Scram

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

I was never one for naming wow a skilled game..

I, more then most, have a slightly better insight into the pro gaming scene ( albeit a few years ago) and I remember being ringside during a match between SK and Pandemic...amongst alot of other matches. I was doing reports etc for the website, and was allowed gracefully to sit in with a good few team talks, seeing the prep etc.

The preperation for WoW arena is amazing , more then ive seen for alot of games, but it was not on tactics per say, it was about gear...

As i mentioned earlier there was always a flavour of the month, classes that together were "imba". This, and the hours that was spent by these guys researching gear, testing it etc was ridiculous.

I know for fact...I have an abundance of skill required to play games at a decent level. I've good micro, good hotkey allocations, pace, quick minded, communicative and fast reactions.

For any other game i nthe world, this is a bonus and lets me comepte at a decent level of enjoyment, however with wow, it counts really for nothing, because i'm not arsed sitting 5 hours through a raid...

The reason i mention this, is not so much a moan, i applaud those who have the patience for such, and im currently trying to research items etc and time to get them.

But I remember being present in a press conference, for journalists only, when wow was first announced, and one of the comments that stays with me to this day is " World of Warcraft will be a whole new mmorpg experience, in the way that, previous mmo's require long grinding and alot of time, but with WoW, the casual gamer can jump in any time, for any length of time, and experience the content hardcore gamers will experience, as the game adapts to your gameplay type"

That was official , from one of the dev team.

I have to say im a big fan of wow and i do find it immensly enjoyable, and i hope to god i find the time to be able to do a full kara run etc etc.

But I still think theres things they announced years ago, that they didnt deliver on.

And pvp is just a letdown imo... i played 15 AV games yesterday, I won 2 of them, I'm reliant on 15+ other players....who all want to go offensive, and constanyl leaving me on defence

I Think i cud safely say that up until a few months i was a WoW addict i.e playing all day most days. Things in my real life were not going so well but it wasnt until at least a year ago i said to myself during a raid into SSC "This aint for me anymore". I love my guild i still do im still in contact with them and there were great times in wow SSC killing Lady Vash and First Guild Kill of that TK end boss.

I remember watching the tactical videos for those 2 boses over and over im time for the raid. But you get to the point when you see that you can never get to the "End" of Wow. Blizzard keep adding new gear with stats etc and PVP becomes kinda boring. I wish there were new Battlegrounds ive played the 4 of them to death really and with all 7 of my Toons.

I do kinda miss Wow i loved the gnomes and dwarfs especially the Dwarf jokes they always made me laugh. As i write this im missing it even more but theres nothing new atm to go back to. I can see my self going back for WOTLK but the thoughts of level 80 and another PVE/PVP grind really turn my stomach. I mean its like "wait ive done this twice before now?" (WoW,WoW TBC) thats what makes me think there must be something better to do than this again?

Kiith

I'll go back, play the expansion to 80 (although probably with only 1 toon), realise i despise the end game, and quit again.

TheDoc

Youd think, that with a game, that has thousands of real life people, on one server, they could construct something epic.

Something that requires team play, and epic, like conquering a zone or something, not this dismal effort they made by grinding stuff to aid a war and ****.

That just adds to the grind.

Why is pvp confined to the BG etc? Why isnt there like zones we can desimate, and done proper, previous attempts have been feeble.

But as i said its so people orientated thats half the problem.

Today i wanted to do a kara run, and im jsut speccing up my shadow priest, so currently has +600 dmg. And 4 groups i asked, i was asked " how much +dmg?" and when i replied they said " no thanks too low"

like wtf, i get to 70, and now ive to continue more rind to get exceptance, so the next party that asked, i lied saying +900, got accepted, and didnt put a foot wrong and had a gr8 time.

Its just annoying