Student Fees in relation to the Student Centre Extension

Stepherunie

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In all that time the people involved in SU politics have proved themselves a shower of self absorbed wánkers and prícks with no interests in anything other than themselves. (Ban me if you like, it's the truth.) The utter indifference of those people to ordinary students is beyond pathetic. They're scum. We as students are thus left to pay the bills for all of this crap. There's absolutely nothing we can do. It's unfair, and it's immoral. I hate it, but I'm helpless. And that is UCD for you. I would not recommend to a single person that they come here. Because this kind of behaviour is par for the course.

Yes all people involved in the Union are immoral and scum.


I'm a piece of scum because I choose to volunteer my time to help fellow students, because I choose to get help get students onto representative Boards where they can represent there views. Because I give students details of grants, hardship funds, fees, problems with classes, accommodation queries etc.

I'm a piece of scum because I have no interest in a career in politics but wanted the voices of my class heard for the first time in teh SU.

I'm a piece of scum because I put forward a motion with regards to fire safety on campus because I was worried about the safety of all students on campus and the possible consequences of too many fire alarms.

COme talk to me and I'll tell you how I nearly had a breakdown because of the stress I went through trying to help my class, how i used get, AND REPLY to texts at 4am about what time class was the next day because I was a class rep. Ask me about the times I've sat down with lecturers and worked through issues to try and help my class and haven't given a second thought to the fact that I could have been sitting in my room studying to get better grades.

Ask me about the time my dad had a brain haemorrhage and I had the suport of some of the great people who i've met through the Union and how they're help, advice and support meant that I didn't lose it completely at teh thought that I could lose my own father. Then ask me about how I still got up 2 days later and sorted out and issue that my class was having.


Next time you call us all scum, consider the fact that I am just one rep, just one person, and that is only part of my story. Call me a hack, call me political, but don't you dare call me scum.


Oh and for the record, I voted against the extension. Personally I think we should have just built a swimming pool if we really wanted one, with the colleges help and a new health centre possibly above it because the current space is so inadequate, it's all we need and a lot cheaper.

Raphael

I think there is a new health centre in the plans, actually. Not entirely sure, I didn't get that good of a look, but I thought it was there.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Stepherunie wrote: »

Yes all people involved in the Union are immoral and scum.


I'm a piece of scum because I choose to volunteer my time to help fellow students, because I choose to get help get students onto representative Boards where they can represent there views. Because I give students details of grants, hardship funds, fees, problems with classes, accommodation queries etc.

I'm a piece of scum because I have no interest in a career in politics but wanted the voices of my class heard for the first time in teh SU.

I'm a piece of scum because I put forward a motion with regards to fire safety on campus because I was worried about the safety of all students on campus and the possible consequences of too many fire alarms.

COme talk to me and I'll tell you how I nearly had a breakdown because of the stress I went through trying to help my class, how i used get, AND REPLY to texts at 4am about what time class was the next day because I was a class rep. Ask me about the times I've sat down with lecturers and worked through issues to try and help my class and haven't given a second thought to the fact that I could have been sitting in my room studying to get better grades.

Ask me about the time my dad had a brain haemorrhage and I had the suport of some of the great people who i've met through the Union and how they're help, advice and support meant that I didn't lose it completely at teh thought that I could lose my own father. Then ask me about how I still got up 2 days later and sorted out and issue that my class was having.


Next time you call us all scum, consider the fact that I am just one rep, just one person, and that is only part of my story. Call me a hack, call me political, but don't you dare call me scum.


Oh and for the record, I voted against the extension. Personally I think we should have just built a swimming pool if we really wanted one, with the colleges help and a new health centre possibly above it because the current space is so inadequate, it's all we need and a lot cheaper.

You wouldn't do it if you didn't get something out of it, be it the satisfaction of seeing something done, a good ego stroking, or that warm feeling of doing something good.

Don't pretend that your motives are completely unselfish.

Raphael

Eh..If your definition of selfishness includes doing good things because you like seeing them done, or you like the warm fuzzy feeling, then what exactly is a selfless action?

Stepherunie

Raphael wrote: »

I think there is a new health centre in the plans, actually. Not entirely sure, I didn't get that good of a look, but I thought it was there.

There is a bigger one in the plans yep, then the student consultative forum will be moving to where the health centre currently is.


Sean K I never said I didn't get something out of it, I'm not stupid enough to say that, my point was you can't label people scum just because they choose to get involved. And I actually pointed out what I got out of it, a great group of friends who supported me when I was going through one of the hardest things I'd ever had to face.

Breezer

Sean_K wrote: »

You wouldn't do it if you didn't get something out of it, be it the satisfaction of seeing something done, a good ego stroking, or that warm feeling of doing something good.

Don't pretend that your motives are completely unselfish.

Holy crap, I'm getting flashbacks of an old episode of Friends now where Joey and Phoebe have a row over whether 'selfless good deeds' exist. Yes, the notion of debating that point was so ludicrous that they put it in a fecking sitcom where the main theme was people sleeping with each other! :eek:

I'm sure Steph does get something out of it. I'm sure most people who have some sense of self worth, who have a feeling of purpose in their lives, get something out of the things they do. Is that wrong? Should we not do anything unless it's painful, involves suffering and we hate every minute of it? Pardon me while I go and self-flagellate while getting dragged behind a horse and spat at by people on my way to Guantanamo Bay. :rolleyes:

peachystarr

someone has to pay - Is it not a good thing that there will be better facilities for future UCD students??

Stabshauptmann

peachystarr wrote: »

someone has to pay - Is it not a good thing that there will be better facilities for future UCD students??

The first thing that popped into my head - and the reason I voted no, was that this is being done by a group who know nothing about financial management.

The obvious thing to do was to get a huge mofo loan, build the centre and repay the loan via a levy imposed on students, starting in the year the centre is open.

i.e. only those students who have the option of using the centre will pay for it.
The second advantage of this system is that since you dont need the money in any great hurry you can have a lower levy eg 20eur instead of 50eur

But what can you do when half the SU doesnt understand commerce and the others are ideologically opposed to capitalism.

Ive seen an ents officer who didnt know what VAT was and ****ed up the bar, an SU president who admitted freely and openly that he didnt know the first thing about running shops or services and no end of officers an presidential candidates with dark age attitudes to usury.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Breezer wrote: »

Holy crap, I'm getting flashbacks of an old episode of Friends now where Joey and Phoebe have a row over whether 'selfless good deeds' exist. Yes, the notion of debating that point was so ludicrous that they put it in a fecking sitcom where the main theme was people sleeping with each other! :eek:

I'm sure Steph does get something out of it. I'm sure most people who have some sense of self worth, who have a feeling of purpose in their lives, get something out of the things they do. Is that wrong? Should we not do anything unless it's painful, involves suffering and we hate every minute of it? Pardon me while I go and self-flagellate while getting dragged behind a horse and spat at by people on my way to Guantanamo Bay. :rolleyes:

Well I don't want to get into a philisophical/economics debate here, but a 'selfless' act as you say would be a completely irrational one.

There's nothing wrong with looking after number 1. If it helps others then all the better. Obviously someone will only do something, or continue to do it if they get more value out of it than they put in to it.

Stepherunie

You don't know anything about me, you can't say that I looked after number 1 first and foremost by being a class rep so don't start generalising.

I actually gave up a spot in my preferred hospital to help out others, as did the other class rep and both of us got abuse for doing it and indeed I spent 8 weeks in hell and nearly had to resort to making a formal complaint about a member of staff for bullying.

You have your ideas as to why class reps do it, you think we're all in it for the glory, the 'prestige', the line on the CV, the way that we'll get things done because it suits us to do it, when in fact the class reps I know do it for the greater good rather than themselves. They usually think of themselves last.

In the 3 years I was a rep I do I believe I asked for one thing that directly benefitted myself; I asked would it be okay to choose our own uniform tops without our normal wine stripe as I, along with other members of the class found the standard issue tops made work very difficult when moving patients. It wasn't something that needed paperwork, it didn't need anyone to go out of their way to help, it just needed to be approved by the head of school and she gladly agreed, indeed she herself had thought the same about the uniform.

And I apologise Raph and the Minister for going woefully off topic, I'm just sick and tired of lies that are perpetuated by so many people about why Class reps do it. We're not all the same, so stop labelling us all the same.

gubbie

It always amazes me how much people like to spout on about things they just assume. I suppose I do the same sometimes though.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In UCD, we pay a €1000 or so 'registration' which pays for our membership of the student union.

You pay €63.50 towards the SU (or there abouts) and about the same amount to the runnings of the societies and the clubs.

In all that time the people involved in SU politics have proved themselves a shower of self absorbed wánkers and prícks with no interests in anything other than themselves.

You're an idiot. Can you even give an example or is this what you just assume. The SU might now have helped you with say a Welfare issue, but do not for one minute pretend that you never ever went to an ents gig, used the shop or even taken a free condom

Maybe if I put it in bold... The SU's involvement was the same as the societies and the clubs. Can anyone answer me this one thing: why isn't anyone pointing the finger at the societies or clubs? I was at auditors training the other day and they heralded the new student center as something that the societies fought long and hard for

ShagNastii

All this anti-SU is all pretty much true.

Students Union is latin for: I really want to spend as much time in college as I can and see myself in posters.

Wouldn't call them scum but generally all really important people in societies and in the SU f'n love the sound of their own voices and the attention they get from everyone/thing

As for SU vote I stupidly, like most student, vote for the guy or girl who seemed the nicest, or was friend of a friend because all policies are mostly the same. So can't really complain

The_Minister

gubbie wrote: »

You're an idiot.

Careful now.

Chakar

There's a link on the UCD website:

http://www.ucd.ie/campusdevelopment/transformationalprojects/studentcentre/index.html

Blush_01

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I cant afford the 150 as I am on a grant. I agree with the project but why should those less well off be forced to the edge of a cliff financially.

Do you have a college loan?

Some of us didn't get a grant, worked part-time and got loans to finance college. Not affording €150 (when you're only being asked to pay €150, and not over €1000) is a joke. Especially when you're being GIVEN money for college.

ShagNastii

Blush_01 wrote: »

Do you have a college loan?

Some of us didn't get a grant, worked part-time and got loans to finance college. Not affording €150 (when you're only being asked to pay €150, and not over €1000) is a joke. Especially when you're being GIVEN money for college.

I echo this!

Riamfada

I dont think its fair to judge this years SU in relation to the student center and to criticise them about this, that havnt got a chance to **** up yet . Nor has this anything to do with grants or otherwise !

my 2c


*cough* two fully kitted broadcast studios *cough* *cough*

Pride Fighter

Blush_01 wrote: »

Do you have a college loan?

Some of us didn't get a grant, worked part-time and got loans to finance college. Not affording €150 (when you're only being asked to pay €150, and not over €1000) is a joke. Especially when you're being GIVEN money for college.

You have no idea what my financial situation is but you can obviously guess that it is bad if I cannot get type of scratch. There were no jobs for me this summer, but in previous summers it was easier to find work so therefore I could pay. It seems that you are bitter at me for getting my education for free. Is that you Batt O'Keefe?:pac::pac::pac:

the evil lime

ShagNastii wrote: »

Wouldn't call them scum but generally all really important people in societies and in the SU f'n love the sound of their own voices and the attention they get from everyone/thing

Actually, when I was an auditor I had things arranged so half the active members had no idea who the hell I was.

Tayto2000

Heh, I paid for the old one the four years I was an undergrad and left the year it was opened :rolleyes: At least I'm getting some use out of it now, the coffee there isn't bad...

The current centre is OK but it does have problems that I'm not sure won't be repeated with the new extension... It's a big building, but it contains a huge amount of 'dead' space plus rooms in it doesn't really seem to be available to students and societies unless booked months ahead. What it does seem to get a lot of use for is as a hired venue for outside organisations...

Also, I'm afraid my inner spelling-nazi drives me to point out that it's spelt 'pedant'. Ironic, I know.

Riamfada

There is a desperate shortage of space in the current student center. A new center is needed to improve the quality of education for students in the future. Im willing to pay for that if it means Johny Junior Cert gets a better stay in UCD. Some people have the foresight to develop the college past their own term in office.

Tom65

Grimes wrote: »

*cough* two fully kitted broadcast studios *cough* *cough*

Read as: storage facilities



I'm not overly enthusiastic about paying for it, but as far as I know more or less everyone(in UCD) pays for things they never get to use. So I suppose it's just the way it goes.

Red Alert

ShagNastii wrote: »

All this anti-SU is all pretty much true.

Students Union is latin for: I really want to spend as much time in college as I can and see myself in posters.

Wouldn't call them scum but generally all really important people in societies and in the SU f'n love the sound of their own voices and the attention they get from everyone/thing

As for SU vote I stupidly, like most student, vote for the guy or girl who seemed the nicest, or was friend of a friend because all policies are mostly the same. So can't really complain

And in fact nobody seems to bother about their policies once in office. It's a real case of Deja-Vu when you see the same types of hacks going in for office year after year. I'm sure Steph has the best of intentions and appears at least to have some sort of track record of action- quite a lot more than can be said about the majority of active participants within the SU. Which makes me wonder, on topic, why the SU acquiesced to the college 'outsourcing' the pool?

Économiste Monétaire

Excuse my ignorance, the SU is something I know very little about but there are a few who seem quite knowledgeable in the area.

1) What has the student union done for students in the last three years that could justify its mandatory membership? (If someone could answer that without including their life story and a small violin, please)

2) Something I always wondered: Is there a way a student could leave the union? Not that it would make much practical difference, but because of an aversion to unions of any kind.

3) What powers does the union have? There were different promises made last year, one if I recall correctly was about the GP and prices to see said GP. How does the union's mandate make these promises possible.

Riamfada

1) The Student Union Photocopy Service is ran under the students union as is the Shops. They run at a reduced cost to provide cheaper goods and services which prevents private companies having the monopoly and charging high prices. Thats a benefit im thankful for. No SU= No SU shop in the library/student center and Centra is the only shop and when there is only 1 supplier costs get high'a!:). Thats one of many things and im glad to pay for that. Especially as the benifit to me is signifantly greater than the cost, especially when the Union's other activities (ents, welfare, advice) are factored in. It offers students pathways through life not covered by uni courses in UCD. I think most people here will know what I mean seeing as Im back over to RTE next week thanks to the SU

2) As far as I know it is unconstituational to be forced to be part of any group that you do not wish to be "Freedom of Association" or in this case "Freedom of Disassociation" . But Im no constitutional lawyer

3) A promise is just a promise. Some things take alot longer than one year and one term in office to get done. It is the responsibility of the student council to push the Union to acchieve the goals the students want. The blame cant rest only with 6 sabats


IMO Democracy dosn't work. One leader over 5 years heading towards one goal v 6 leaders going in different directions every year leaves alot of unfinished jobs *joke ftw

Économiste Monétaire

Thanks for the reply, Grimes.

Grimes wrote: »

1) The Student Union Photocopy Service is ran under the students union as is the Shops. They run at a reduced cost to provide cheaper goods and services which prevents private companies having the monopoly and charging high prices. Thats a benefit im thankful for. No SU= No SU shop in the library/student center and Centra is the only shop and when there is only 1 supplier costs get high'a!:). Thats one of many things and im glad to pay for that. Especially as the benifit to me is signifantly greater than the cost, especially when the Union's other activities (ents, welfare, advice) are factored in. It offers students pathways through life not covered by uni courses in UCD. I think most people here will know what I mean seeing as Im back over to RTE next week thanks to the SU

I thought someone posted, in the thread about prices in the SU shop, that the SU didn't have direct control over the shop. So, theoretically, if that were true, the shop could charge whatever it liked, regardless of union opinion. I get your point, though. I like[d] the 1 yoyo tea

2) As far as I know it is unconstituational to be forced to be part of any group that you do not wish to be "Freedom of Association" or in this case "Freedom of Disassociation" . But Im no constitutional lawyer

Thanks for the legal opinion I didn't ask for personal reasons, as I'm gone from UCD come October, but more of a hypothetical situation.

3) A promise is just a promise. Some things take alot longer than one year and one term in office to get done. It is the responsibility of the student council to push the Union to acchieve the goals the students want. The blame cant rest only with 6 sabats

Oh I understand that nothing is instantanious. It was more of a question of the validity of such promises, i.e. 'I'm going to attempt to stop the charge for the GP by using X method granted to me by the position I'm running for'. Basically, if the University said tough on the issue then what could the person do in recourse.

Riamfada

UCD_Econ wrote: »

if the University said tough on the issue then what could the person do in recourse.

Nail + Head = Point

The_Minister

Blush_01 wrote: »

Do you have a college loan?

Some of us didn't get a grant, worked part-time and got loans to finance college. Not affording €150 (when you're only being asked to pay €150, and not over €1000) is a joke. Especially when you're being GIVEN money for college.

Some of us can't find a part-time job, even though they have been looking.

Riamfada

Completely off topic but and Irish lad called Connor served me in McDonalds today, another Irish lad took my order in Godfellas and an youngfella in a civic delivered it ...........


sign o the times me thinks

Which got me thinking about this. Seeing as the vote for the student center was 3 years ago when we were all burning notes to beat the band and due to the fact that the student center hasnt seen a brick layed yet, can the council request a second vote from the students on the reg fee taking into account the new financial situation we find ourselves in. A financial situation we didnt predict 3 years ago. +1 Stu Center Imo but still ..... "a lisbon 2 situation"?

Any hack types know enough about the SU constitution to say if the council can debate this?

rainbow kirby

Grimes wrote: »

Which got me thinking about this. Seeing as the vote for the student center was 3 years ago when we were all burning notes to beat the band and due to the fact that the student center hasnt seen a brick layed yet, can the council request a second vote from the students on the reg fee taking into account the new financial situation we find ourselves in. A financial situation we didnt predict 3 years ago. +1 Stu Center Imo but still ..... "a lisbon 2 situation"

Good idea - and I'd still vote NO on it. :pac: