Irish small press comics? Take 2

ztoical

This thread is a continuation of this thread - I've started it as a new thread as I feel we came to a kind of natural conclusion with the first thread with the Irish Free Comic Day getting put together. So please have look at the old thread to see some of the questions, answers, comments that came out of it.

From now till the end of November looks like a busy time comics wise in Ireland which is just fantastic, lots going, then we have December and Xmas and then what? There isn't alot coming up after the new year. I was going to wait till December to post this but I thought it was worth getting some dialogue going now while we've got lots of comic things going on to inspire people.

There was alot of talk in the other thread about having some sort of ongoing anthology to promote new irish talent but there have been few books like this [the Shiznit being the best example as you saw it all over Dublin and a few places outside Dublin, and it was FREE, but Atomic Diner and Havoc 21 etc have done similar comics] The issue I have with this idea is that you'd really need one or two people to step up as editors as something like this needs strong editorial control but you then run the risk of arguments over editorial choices.

The cost and logistics of doing a print comic would also be an issue - this isn't something that would be a business, it would a promotional tool for artists but it would still be a bit of a job to print and distribute.

On option is to try doing a online pdf comic for a few issues. Candy Collective is an irish pdf magazine thats done very well over the past few years - holding regular talks and shows both in Ireland and around the world and they've also put together some interesting projects like the 50 series they did last year but it started as just a pdf magazine focusing on irish Desgin and Illustration. The New Proker was a russian pdf magazine that featured alot of comic work. It sadly seems to have stopped after issue 6.

I've had some good feedback from fine artists during the recent Kilkenny Arts Festival and some local libraries about having more comic events - I think the interest is there its just finding the best way to approach it - a gallery show of irish comics? a zine library somewhere? a series of workshops? something totally different? I don't know I'm rambling now so just going to stop and let others comment.

Nathanual

Hi there...

If there is anything I can do then please let me know....

I agree that once Comic Con is over there is very little to look forward to, until maybe the 2D Festival in Derry next May. This was a really useful event. it made proper use of everyone attending as guests to do workshops with people and have interesting panels. The one that centred on Comics to Movies was really funny.

So what now? Do we all fly over to Marvel and DC Headquarters and take them over? Yes.

But failing this hostile takeover scenario (and I ask you at least consider it) the anthology idea is good but the problems outweigh the gains. It is costly and whoever is the editor will have nothing but a headache from creators.

I talked the last time about forming a group, but I was younger then and my eyes of closed. The group I was attached to didn't work out so I left... Now I work with two very good artists... no silly company name just writer (me) and artists (them) with our contact info on the back cover...

It's harder for a writer to get his work noticed in the comic book industry. I have written and published a children's novel (mostly in the states) and it did very well. But there is something about writing comics that I love doing. So for my two cents I'd love to see something that showed more about the writers, like the book of comic writers prose.

Just my thoughts.
Stephen Paul Coffey

Fysh

I like the idea of some kind of anthology comic published on a regular basis, but I think keeping it as a digital thing - at least to start with - is the way to go. Let's face it, the biggest problem all the previous attempts at print anthologies in Ireland have had is generating a viable revenue stream. If we were to have, say, a 12-to-24-page PDF magazine published on a regular basis, having it online will cost far less than printing it and simultaneously means it's more accessible (although perhaps harder to promote).

There are still issues present:

• Editorial control and direction
• Getting unpaid contributions from artists/writers on a regular basis
• Organising updates etc on a timely basis
• Promotion

Editorial control - necessary to keep any such endeavour ticking over, if you want it to appear professional in nature. To be taken seriously it needs to take itself seriously, which means having defined formats and standards for content, which in turn meands one or more people being directly responsible for running it. How do you pick him/her/them? How much control does he/she/they have?

Getting unpaid contributions - Particularly if you're looking for high-standard contributions, you run into the issue of not being able to pay people. Why should they contribute? It's a chicken-and-egg situation, although offset to a certain extent if the standards are kept high in that the contributors can use it as part of their portfolio.

Organising updates etc - a similar issue to the previous one, but aside from the content management role of the editor(s) you need someone to look after the site and actually creating the magazine (particularly if you're going to create something at print-quality). This is effectively a part-time job in its own right, so getting someone to do it for free isn't going to be particularly easy. The person doing it needs to be committed to the work as well as able to handle the role's requirements. How should they be chosen?

Promotion - For this kind of thing to succeed, it needs to be promoted widely. A grass-roots campaign would have potential - get people to print off posters themselves and put them up around the place, for example. Web-only advertisting wouldn't be enough, and without some innovative ideas it will struggle to get a big enough audience to be taken seriously. Should it consider running paid-for adverts to subsidise a print edition, like the Shiznit?

As I say, all of the above are items that need to be addressed - but I also think they can be addressed and that something useful can come of this. It's going to be a lot of work though, so it would need to be carefully planned.

One solution would be to consider something like the Comic Creator's Guild. A paid-membership group designed to promote and protect the interests of people who work in or are interested in sequential arts. The money generated from memberships could be used to fund a regular anthology volume (to be sold at a reasonable profit thus generating more money for the grou). Such a body may also be better placed to apply for certain grants to organise events. It does mean that you have a certain amount of bureaucracy though, which given how other arts-related grants have gone would probably be a bad thing; it also means you have to get members and interested parties to commit to taking part in an often-boring process of reading about and then voting on various items that will affect how the Guild is run. Anyway, figured I'd throw it out there as an idea to consider.

Coming back to another item - the zine library. I'd love to see a physical zine library, but again I think digital versions will overcome the cost and distribution problems that keep most zines small. I'd like to see a website either with a dedicated section for this or ideally entirely dedicated to it - the notion being that PDF versions of the zines at print-quality would be available as well as web-only versions so that, should you wish to, you can print out and distribute copies of it locally. Sure, the money aspect is an issue but given the general rule of thumb of independent comics not actually turning a profit I don't see it as that big an issue. Once I finally get time to migrate the Comic Challenge to a dedicated site I'll see if I can accommodate something like this, but this is one area where duplication of function would be beneficial rather than harmful.

Workshops are another great idea, though you'd have to either organise them as standalone ventures for the time being or get some sort of structure in place first before having them as part of some bigger plan. Over time the tutorials section of the Comic Production forum will grow and hopefully address at least the basics of the relevant subjects, at which time I'd quite like to put them into one big PDF or even a cheaply-printed/photocopied version to distribute around the place. Sharing knowledge is never bad, but the best way to share it can be difficult to organise.

I think the big problem concerning an overall structure of Irish comic events is a degree of self-serving thinking amongst a lot of people in the scene. Given the difficulty and financial risks involved in arranging conventions, people organising them want to look out for themselves first. Similarly with comic shop owners, I suspect. And obviously comic creators will prefer ventures that give them some financial return over ones that don't. Not to mention the nepotism and alleged corruption involved in the allocation of government grants and funding for arts-related projects. Overcoming all of that to put together a structure that benefits everyone in due course is going to take hard graft and a lot of persuasion.

Ger_Hankey

I agree with Fysh - I think having some sort of regular platform, whether digitally or in print is definitely something worth having. I know I'm very wet behind the ears in this game, but there are Irish small press comic producers who have been doing some very good stuff over the years and its very hard to know they exist if you aren't really looking .
Would a format similar to the way 2000ad is run (an anthology comic with regular stories, as well as a section to showcase a particular new talent) work? And if so (and like I said, very new to this and I might be way off the mark) is there anybody in Ireland, be it a newspaper group or magazine publisher or whatever, who we could approach to see if they would be willing to get involved?
I cant imagine contributions are going too be too much trouble if people realize this is a good form of self-advertisement - If somebody doesn't need that type of exposure then thay are probably already busy doing paid comic work, right? And providing they are not being asked for a huge amount of material all the time (would 5-6 pages once every 3-4 months sound reasonable?) it shouldn't be too hard to twist people arms for it.
I wouldn't really have any suggestions about the editorial side of things as I have no knowledge or experience in that area (and the good sense to keep my gob shut in those situations!!)

At any rate, I'd love to be able to help - as long as it doesn't invlove me investing any time or money!!

David Campbell

My first post, just thought I'd fire my two pennies worth in here. The centre I work in full-time supports comic-related work pretty much constantly, as we work quite closely with schools and youth groups in the North West. We are an educational charity and do a lot of cross community work, radio production stuff and run a literary review magazine with a distribution of around 100,000, among other stuff. My job consists of running comic art workshops, producing illustratons and organising 2D, the Northern Ireland Comics Festival.

Starting this week we will be running an accredited short comic course with the local college as a way of getting like-minded heads together and producing some comic work. We are also in the process of setting up a printing press which will be aiming to, among other things, provide support for the Irish comics scene and creators. We aren't completely financially backed to provide subsidised comics but we will be aiming to make comics printing/publishing for interested parties more affordable and easier. I will be in charge of managing the press and would like to put together an anthology title at some stage to showcase the talent out there. This isn't a disguised sales pitch for a printing press, we really want to support the comic artform either through workshops, courses, a completely free comics festival (2D 09 will be back next June) and now by printing comics. We see the all the work as being connected and people who do our course or have their comics printed are welcome to come to the festival and have free tablespace to promote their work and meet more heads. We are always open to ideas about all this so if anybody has any let me know.

Nathanual

Just a quick note to anyone... David is not doing a sales pitch... I was at the 2D Festival this year, and David is one in a million. His organisation has a true belief in the Irish Small Press scene and I for one would love to use their printing press when it is up and running.

Stephen Coffey

Patrick Brown

Periodical anthologies, whether print or prdf, are difficult things to organise and easily derailed by unforseseen circumstances or contributors flaking. But if we can get away from the magazine model, I think the web offers an alternative that might suit the small press better.

I've seen sites where various member bloggers post on their own blogs, and their posts are also syndicated via rss to a central blog hub - so a reader can follow each blog individually, or follow them all with one subscription to the hub site. If we could set up something similar, each member's webcomics, news about print releases, events, musings about the creative process etc could be combined into a single site. The site could be designed as an anthology of sorts. Short comics by members could be run on the site and collected into print anthologies when there's enough material. Members' printed comics could include a logo and an address directing raders to the site, which would then direct them to other members. There would obviously be some organisation involved, but I think the logistics would be easier than a series of print or pdf anthologies.

Anybody have any thoughts on the idea? Any glaring flaws?

David Campbell

Cheers Stephen, I'll send you that money for the good words. Just forgot to say, we don't just ask people who do our courses or who will get stuff printed with us to come to the Festival, it's an open invite to anyone who wants to plug their own stuff. It's not a big commercial con and there is less of an emphasis on selling, and more just hanging about, chatting and meeting good people.

David Campbell

Hi Patrick, having stuff on the web is definitely a good way to go as it's so immediate and you can get feedback really fast. It would be good to have a site dedicated to centralising all the work.

In terms of periodical anthologies, they don't have to be regular enough that it's a whole hassle trying to get stuff together, although there is probably always an element of that printing any comics. I think the model of Accent UK having a nice slick looking themed book showcasing a lot of different creators is a nice idea. Not too much deadline pressure and a flexible enough format. What do you reckon?

ztoical

David Campbell wrote: »

a completely free comics festival (2D 09 will be back next June)

*cross fingers and hopes it doesn't clash with MoCCA again so she can go*

World War three illustrated has been running since the late 70's as pretty much a themed anthology that they aim to have three times a year but that doesn't always happen alot times they might only bring one out in a year or something happens [like 9/11] that they feel they need to do an issue for. One of the keys I feel to WW3 illustrated lasting is they have good editors - they usually have 2 or 3 people as editors per issue and it rotates so the same people don't edit one issue after another. How they work is that the editors have a meeting to sort the theme then they email their list mailing list the theme and people have several weeks to think about the theme, then an open meeting is held with the editors and everyone describes their idea for a story based on the theme - the group then has an open discussion about the story idea, wither it fits the theme, pacing, storytelling etc etc. People then go away for a couple of months to work on their stories before theres another meeting were people bring much more roughed out ideas for the editors to look at and again give feedback on how its going. Then its X amount of time to get finished work together for print. Thats just one example of how a themed anthology is put together - its an example that has alot of art direction in it and tight editorial control but I do strongly feel if there was a show case anthology for irish comics being put together it would need to have that control.

I do think there are other smaller areas that can be focused on - like the libraries, getting involved with them to bring a focus on comics. I think focusing on an anthology or something similar is fine but shouldn't be the be all and end all idea. I would love to have something like a zine library even if it was just a small section of one of the big libraries or even just something part time or something like MoCCA or the Independent publishers resource center. The irish comics wiki has been a great start, can that be expended on in some way? What about getting in touch with some of the writers groups and look to include comics as part of their events? I know the Ark in Dublin is very interested in exploring some comic book related events.