V12 TDI

peasant

500 bhp @ 3750 rpm
1000 Nm @ 1750 - 3250 rpm

madness ...


to be had in the Audi Q7 V12

Mr.David

An engine to match the Q7s character:

Brutish, and as appealing as a wet blanket

Matt Simis

Mr.David wrote: »

An engine to match the Q7s character:

Brutish, and as appealing as a wet blanket

Sigh... why even bother posting that?

Mr.David

Matt Simis wrote: »

Sigh... why even bother posting that?

Because this a FORUM, where people discuss their OPINIONS.........

Its a capable engine and I'm sure its very quick etc but I think theres more to it than that. I'd rather have a characterful but less powerful motor myself. Did you hear the Le Mans diesels? No? Thats because you couldnt....how dull.

fletch

I doubt it's dull when you put your foot down

Matt Simis

Mr.David wrote: »

Because this a FORUM, where people discuss their OPINIONS.........

Its a capable engine and I'm sure its very quick etc but I think theres more to it than that. I'd rather have a characterful but less powerful motor myself. Did you hear the Le Mans diesels? No? Thats because you couldnt....how dull.

Did you hear/drive the V10 TDI? No, thats because you dont have one therefore arent in an educated position to poo-poo this (spiritual?) successor.

peasant wrote: »

500 bhp @ 3750 rpm
1000 Nm @ 1750 - 3250 rpm
madness ...

to be had in the Audi Q7 V12

And maybe the mythical R8 TDI unless thats changed.

Mr.David

I'll bet it is! I'm sure the performance isnt dull when you put your foot down but I bet the engine is. My point is not that its a bad engine or anything its just that its boring. Ya ok its really powerful but surely theres more that matters than that? Some of the best engines I have ever enjoyed have only a fraction of that amount of power.

r3nu4l

I bet that would pull a fully laden horsebox at some speed

Mr.David

Matt Simis wrote: »

Did you hear/drive the V10 TDI? No, thats because you dont have one therefore arent in an educated position to poo-poo this (spiritual?) successor.
quote]


Yes I have driven the V10 diesel, in the Tourag. How did you determine that I havent driven it? Yes I dont have one, and I dont want one either! I'm in as much of a position to "poo-poo" (who sayes that anyway?!) the engine as you are to praise it.

Top Dog

Go on Audi - build the R8 TDI!

Gypo

Is the Q7 an ugly tank? Absolutely. Is a 500 brake V12 TDI irresponsible in these times? Some might think so. Is the same engine boring? Absolutely not. I bet that thing makes a fabulous noise even if it sounds completely different to a petrol V12. In fairness 500 bhp and 1000 nm wouldn't be "boring" in a car that ran solely on batteries.

Biro

r3nu4l wrote: »

I bet that would pull a fully laden horsebox at some speed

You'd have horse burgers at the destination though!

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

Did you hear/drive the V10 TDI? No, thats because you dont have one therefore arent in an educated position to poo-poo this (spiritual?) successor.

Mr.David wrote: »

Yes I have driven the V10 diesel, in the Tourag. How did you determine that I havent driven it? Yes I dont have one, and I dont want one either! I'm in as much of a position to "poo-poo" (who sayes that anyway?!) the engine as you are to praise it.

It was an assumption based on the way you irrationally dismissed a 500bhp / 1000nm engine on a motoring forum. Id would be a sad day if we were all lining up to agree with your 2 line summary. The fact you claim to have driven a similar engine and deride it as boring is of course mighty convenient and no less irrational.

Mr.David

Matt Simis wrote: »

It was an assumption based on the way you irrationally dismissed a 500bhp / 1000nm engine on a motoring forum. Id would be a sad day if we were all lining up to agree with your 2 line summary. The fact you claim to have driven a similar engine and deride it as boring is of course mighty convenient and no less irrational.

Why do you miss the point again and again?!!

I DO NOT find 500bhp and 1000Nm of torque boring. It simply isnt!

I DO find the engine boring (not what it is capable of).

To discuss an engine like this, it must be compared to similar engines, i.e. other V12s. Imho, it is then exposed as boring. It sounds wheezy, has a narrow powerband and doesnt rev high enough. That to me is a boring V12. The byproduct of the engine (500bhp, 1000Nm) is not boring its the way in which it is delivered that is.

Does anybody understand where I am coming from? Yes I have driven the V10 and it too is boring. Foot down, the thing moves no doubt about that, but its not all about how fast it goes. Its about the manner in which it does it. Its about perception. The novelty of brutal acceleration is something that wears off (to SOME extent anyway) but enjoying the raspy howl of a big NA petrol at 8000rpm isnt.

So, do you find artic truck engines to be sexy and exciting? I don't.

maidhc

Lets not turn this into a another stupid diesel v. petrol debate. A v12 engine cannot be boring, if it is, every engine ever built must be boring.

And an artic truck under full load with the turbos howling sounds almost as terriffic as a ferrari. A different noise entirely, but no less impressive.

ronnie3585

maidhc wrote: »

Lets not turn this into a another stupid diesel v. petrol debate. A v12 engine cannot be boring, if it is, every engine ever built must be boring.

And an artic truck under full load with the turbos howling sounds almost as terriffic as a ferrari. A different noise entirely, but no less impressive.

Quite. You can't start comparing a diesel V12 to it's petrol counterpart, it's apples and oranges.

As an aside, are there any details re the transmission - automatic or manual. Is there a clutch capable of handling that much torque?

Matt Simis

Mr.David wrote: »

Why do you miss the point again and again?!!


To discuss an engine like this, it must be compared to similar engines, i.e. other V12s. Imho, it is then exposed as boring. It sounds wheezy, has a narrow powerband and doesnt rev high enough. That to me is a boring V12. The byproduct of the engine (500bhp, 1000Nm) is not boring its the way in which it is delivered that is.

Oh Im not missing your point, youre just failing to convince me/anyone.

I have just one question, have you heard V12 engine? Your entire view is based around it sounding wheezy or dull and the noise of an engine is of paramount importance to you.

Matt Simis

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Quite. You can't start comparing a diesel V12 to it's petrol counterpart, it's apples and oranges.

As an aside, are there any details re the transmission - automatic or manual. Is there a clutch capable of handling that much torque?

Presumably like the V10, VAG custom made the clutch (as no Clutch vendors were up to the task at the time). Almost assuredly Tiptronic, dont think DSG can handle the torque/4WD reliably and manuals are so passe it would seem.

Mr.David

Matt Simis wrote: »

Oh Im not missing your point, youre just failing to convince me/anyone.

I have just one question, have you heard V12 engine? Your entire view is based around it sounding wheezy or dull and the noise of an engine is of paramount importance to you.

Im not trying to convince anyone, im simply stating my opinion. I dont care whether you prefer chalk or cheese.

Have I heard a V12 or this diesel V12? I have heard this V12 (well the Le Mans Audi diesel on which it is based) and it sounded lame.:p

Mr.David

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Quite. You can't start comparing a diesel V12 to it's petrol counterpart, it's apples and oranges.

As an aside, are there any details re the transmission - automatic or manual. Is there a clutch capable of handling that much torque?

I'm pretty sure that Merc have engines with similar amounts of torque. What does the 65 twin turbo put out? I think its over 1000Nm!

Neilw

Mr.David wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that Merc have engines with similar amounts of torque. What does the 65 twin turbo put out? I think its over 1000Nm!

Correct, limited to 1000Nm to stop the transmission landing on the ground in a ball of bits. I think the V12 tdi is also limited to 1000Nm.

VH

maidhc wrote: »

Lets not turn this into a another stupid diesel v. petrol debate. A v12 engine cannot be boring, if it is, every engine ever built must be boring.

And an artic truck under full load with the turbos howling sounds almost as terriffic as a ferrari. A different noise entirely, but no less impressive.

there are very big boring engines - just none of the above

Rowley Birkin QC

I like the Q7. Would love to have a go in a V12 TDi.

It's quite honest in it's appeal. None of this namby pamby "is it or isn't it" Nissan Qashquai bull****.