Cutting down my trees!

Marla Singer 08

I was wondering if anyone here would be able to give me any advice on the following situation: I have moved into an old house in the country, it has large trees growing around the perimeter of the garden which were great privacy. This morning I was sitting in my kitchen when I heard a loud noise like a chainsaw, I went outside and there was a man on a tractor with a large blade trimming the trees, I have no problem with this as there is a small laneway to the side of my house and there are 2 houses at the other end. If the trees were in the way while they drove down then they would need to be trimmed. I looked out again about 20 minutes later and he was hacking the tops off all my trees!!!:mad: I was fuming. I went out and asked him why he was doing this and he told me that the man at the other end of the lane had paid him to !! This man came down to my house to ask what my problem was! He said he has to drive down there every day and he wants it looking 'right'. I was gobsmacked. Does he have the right to do this? Its not like the trees are near him, he lives about 200 Metres down the lane. I am now left with a 7ft hedge. Help!!

kfk

Are the trees on your property? If they are, then nobody else has the right to cut them without your permission. Not sure what you can do about it now though.

Marla Singer 08

Yes they are on my property, there is a wire fence seperating them from the road. But you're right there's not a lot I can do now. Thanks for the reply kfk.

il gatto

He has a right to trim back overhanging branches and a right to anything that blows off and falls into his land (apples etc.) He has no right to lop the top off your trees. Funny he picked the time he did, just as someone new (and a townie perhaps?:o) moves in. F@ck the ignorant ass. If he wanted it looking "right" he should've bought the place. I'd love to tell my neighbours how I'd like them to do things or where to put their sheds so I don't see them, but it's none of my business. I'd have him in court for destruction of property.

kfk

il GATT wrote: »

I'd have him in court for destruction of property.

Yes. Good advice. If there is something you can do now about it, then don't hesitate. Show him that you are not a pushover. Maybe it should be reported to the gardai.

Oldtree

This man did not care about your property or feelings, may I suggest that you do likewise.

Call the garda immediatly and report the issue, It is a pity you did not do so when they were at it. Did you take photos of them at work?

It sounds like he may not have even had a right to trim back the roadside branches either.

How far are the trees from your house?
What kind of trees are they? depending on the type they may already be standing deadwood, but die slowly.

You can sue neighbour for damage to your property and amenity, and also sue the fool who did the work (as he should have found out whose trees he was cutting, they were clearly not the neighbours).

I would suggest you also contact a lawyer immediatly.
Do not be scared to move foreward with this, as I would imagine the neighbour will also do as he wishes in the future.

I am a tree surgeon and this type of behaviour is appaling. I use bio-degradable chain lubrication oil, did the fool? If not he has polluted your land with mineral oil.

Did they offer back the limbs and branches (arisings) as this is also your property! if not then it is also a theft issue.

fastrac

The biodegradable chain oil is a bit ott.He seems to have used a circular saw on a tractor.Fair enough he should have called before cutting but making a criminal out of him wont win too many friends locally .Time to get the facts and tell him up front and see if he will respond in a proper manner.A lot of people will make money from both of you if this escalates into a fued.

irish_bob

fastrac wrote: »

The biodegradable chain oil is a bit ott.He seems to have used a circular saw on a tractor.Fair enough he should have called before cutting but making a criminal out of him wont win too many friends locally .Time to get the facts and tell him up front and see if he will respond in a proper manner.A lot of people will make money from both of you if this escalates into a fued.

this poster is talking the most sense

btw, when the man cut the tops of the trees and breasted the hedge , was he by any chance physically driving on a public highway or council lane and that in actual fact , you hedge and trees just happend to be adjoining this public highway , did the man actually drive into one of your fields and then cut the hedge , trust me , this is an important distinction , if your hedge was intruding onto a public highway and obstructing someone elses path , they may have been within thier rights

Oldtree

With regard to the biodegradable chain oil, while it may appear to be a minor issue, would you be happy for someone to spray a can of 3in1 on your garden/field? I do not think so! Insist on biodegradable chain oil if you are having tree work done.

There was no permission from the owner to allow this neighbour to touch this hedge. While the council may (if it is the case of a public highway) cut back or lift the side/branches of the hedge/trees to the boundry, this neighbour had no right to damage these trees. He has clearly taken advantage of the situation to suit his own ends and should be held to account. I do believe that the first stone has been thrown and has been done in a bullying way. Should local opinion support this kind of behaviour then those opinions should be ignored.

il gatto

fastrac wrote: »

The biodegradable chain oil is a bit ott.He seems to have used a circular saw on a tractor.Fair enough he should have called before cutting but making a criminal out of him wont win too many friends locally .Time to get the facts and tell him up front and see if he will respond in a proper manner.A lot of people will make money from both of you if this escalates into a fued.

Nobody should ever move somewhere and be someone's b1tch because they've lived there for years. Start as you mean to go on. You'll get no respect in the long run being a doormat. He didn't own the trees. He waited until someone moved in to trim them back severely. It doesn't matter how he responds unless he intends to replace fully grown trees with like (and that won't happen). That's what'd p1ss me off. Trees take decades to grow to maturity. It's not like his goat ate a shrub or his cow tramped a field.

il gatto

irish_bob wrote: »

this poster is talking the most sense

btw, when the man cut the tops of the trees and breasted the hedge , was he by any chance physically driving on a public highway or council lane and that in actual fact , you hedge and trees just happend to be adjoining this public highway , did the man actually drive into one of your fields and then cut the hedge , trust me , this is an important distinction , if your hedge was intruding onto a public highway and obstructing someone elses path , they may have been within thier rights

Driving on the highway doesn't make a difference. Once you reach over the actual border, you've gone too far. Overhanging is fine. A circular saw on an hydraulic arm with a reach of several meters is not. Just because I can reach over your wall as far as your car doesn't mean I have a right to pull the wing mirror off it.
If the trees are actually in the border (stragely they're usually either one side or another, but along a road, it's usually that they belong to the landowner), there might be some dispute over the rights to them, but if they're yours, it's still criminal damage. Like I said, if he wanted to make things look "right" because he has to drive past them, maybe he should have bought the place. If he wants to be the landlord of the parish, he'll have to pay for it.

Oldtree

While we may debate the pros and cons of this persons actions, there is no subtitute for a professional's opinion, in this case an arborist's opinion.

Marla Singer 08 I would suggest that you contact these people, who can help and advise you (it is not me by the way, me in mayo!) I am aware of them having helped a person in a similar position to you a while back.

see:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~goodwinarborist/index.html

fastrac

How much will that cost ( ball park) ?

Oldtree

A quick phone call to Goodwin arb will give you a good idea of the costs involved for their professional service.
Given that litigation (in my opinion) should follow in this case, (and would be successful) the costs would be recoverable.

fastrac

Sounds like ambulance chasing to me.

brianthebard

Sounds like someone took advantage of a new owner to suit themselves, even though they were completely in the wrong. How would he like it if the op were to hack down his front door with an axe, would he think it proper?

Oldtree

fastrac says "Sounds like ambulance chasing to me. "

Trees have a financial value (as well as an emotional one). This can be assessed by using the helliwell system. If it was a boundry wall that was knocked, would you like to pay for the repair yourself? What it boils down to, for me, is a respect for others and their property.

And if you are implying that I am looking for work, look to my other posts on this forum and the green forum.

fastrac

If the trees have a value he can claim off his house policy and let his insurance company deal with the neighbour and the guy who cut the trees .

Oldtree

It may be an avenue worth following (I am not an insurance expert/advisor), however will a claim not put up his/her insurance premiums in the future?

Mature trees have a substantial replacement value.

If the insurance company decided to take it further, would they not need witnesses in court.

The_Conductor

Oldtree wrote: »

Mature trees have a substantial replacement value.

Big time.
A 30-40 year old tree for a garden will cost at very least 100s possibly 1000s depending on the species, form etc.

Oldtree

Not to mention the establishment costs, as a mature tree needs to be nurtured for a number of years. (subsquent to that is the costs involved should the first tree fail and another planting is required.........)
It would appear that there is a number of mature trees involved here and so the costs of replacement (damages) increase.

The owner of the property in the following thread also has concerns for their property being damaged.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055357598

fastrac

Hence my interest in this post.

The_Conductor

Any update?

meathstevie

To the best of knowledge the only organisations or people who're entitled to cut or prune trees on someone's property are :

- utility companies to prevent infrastructure damage ( ESB for example ) and
they will always use a qualified contracter or skilled staff

- County Council while keeping the public highway clear

- emergency services to prevent damage or remove danger ( firebrigade
cutting down a storm damaged tree for example )

If the trees are beyond salvage did the chap who cut them have a felling permit ? You need this unless the trees to be cut down are an obstruction or a danger to built infrastructure.

Oldtree

Tree law in Ireland is as follows:
http://agriculture.irlgov.ie/index.jsp?file=pressrel/2005/160-2005.xml
http://agriculture.irlgov.ie/index.jsp?file=forestry/pages/felling.xml

Telephone number for felling section is now (053) 91 60170, Sean Crowe HEO.

meathstevie said:

To the best of knowledge the only organisations or people who're entitled to cut or prune trees on someone's property are :
- utility companies to prevent infrastructure damage ( ESB for example ) and
they will always use a qualified contracter or skilled staff
- County Council while keeping the public highway clear

In the context of this thread:

Irish law prevents tree felling or uprooting only, not tree pruning.

Utility Companys must ask the owners permission to prune or reduce or fell a tree. I would debate the 'skilled staff issue', it may be more appropiate to say 'went on a 3 day chainsaw course'!

Should the county council wish, for road safety reasons, to remove branches or fell a tree from within a boundry, the owners permission is also required.

Kenn sprinter

Felling permits or felling licences are not required in a case like this. They are only really required for large scale felling operations such as thinning and clearfelling in forested areas.

Johnnyr

Felling permits or felling licences are not required in a case like this. They are only really required for large scale felling operations such as thinning and clearfelling in forested areas.

The above from Kenn sprinter is incorrect, felling licences are required for individual trees, hedgerows etc., not just large scale operations.

Trees that are within 100ft of a building do not need a licence.

See Part 4 of the 1946 Forestry Act for full details of felling licence requirements, http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1946/en/act/pub/0013/index.html

Oldtree

If in any doubt about any tree felling issues speak to:

felling section on (053) 91 60170, Sean Crowe HEO.

He is a very pleasant and patient person and will fill you in on any information you require. he was very helpful with all my questions.

Cookie_Monster

smccarrick wrote: »

Any update?

+1

Marla Singer 08

Hi Everyone,

Firstly, I would like to thank you all for the advice and replies. Apologies for the delay in replying but my internet connection is not great here and usually crashes before i finish typing a reply.

Anyway, to update you on what happened... as i said in my first post, we are new to the area and this was my first time to meet any of our neighbours. When my partner came home from work he decided to confront this man. I think he might have had a few hours to consider how he had spoke to me earlier and when my partner questioned him, he was all apologies. He said that he was unaware that anyone had moved in as the house had been vacant for 20 years. He offered to pay for us to plant more trees. I still feel like we should have taken this further but I don't want to make eniemies in my new neighbourhood.

Oldtree

It is a tough decision, but yours to make.

In my opinion, it is best to plant the smallest plants you can as these will prove to be more successful in the long run. These are usually called whips and are not that expensive. sadly he wont have to pay that much. You could be a stickler and ask for local provenance plants (seed sourced and grown within 20 miles), these would cost more and be more appropiate. Don't forget the cost of any failures next year. If you have a damp or exposed site I can describe a very successful planting technique.

What kind of trees were they?

Marla Singer 08

I have asked a friend to have a look and he says there were both ash and poplar trees.

Oldtree

Both are easy to get and can be bought in bundles of 25. They will both grow quickly esp the poplar. plant at a density of about every two foot, in both directions, to give a thicket quickly, it can be thinned later. Don't worry about weedkilling or the such like.

Buy your plants after leaf fall and before the end of november as this will give you the besy choice of the available stock. Cover the plants when transporting to avoid any wind damage. The bundles can be put in a healing in bed until you are ready to plant. plant before the end of feb as that is when the roots start growing.

just before next winter move any long grass off the stems, if snow falls the weight could break the new stems.

Marla Singer 08

Thanks so much Oldtree for all the advice, its much appreciated

Oldtree

You're welcome. Give a shout here when you get your plants and I'll describe the healing in bed and planting technique for you.

intbn

Hi Marla,

How did you get on with the replant, it's been nearly 4 years now, much progress/height? hope it went well

brian_t

intbn wrote: »

Hi Marla,

How did you get on with the replant, it's been nearly 4 years now, much progress/height? hope it went well

Marlas Last Activity on Boards was 01-08-2010 09:30.
She may not be following now.

intbn

brian_t wrote: »

Marlas Last Activity on Boards was 01-08-2010 09:30.
She may not be following now.

spot on brian_t, cheers