Italian comedian faces "Fascist" prosecution for mocking the Pope

Nevyn

The Minister of Justice in Italy has given prosecutors permission to use a Fascist-era law to punish a comedian for mocking the Pope.

Sabina Guzzanti is accused of "offending the honour of the sacred and inviolable person" of Pope Benedict XVI.

The satirist and comedian, during a routine at a rally in Rome in July, condemned the Vatican‘s interference in issues such as gay rights.

“Within twenty years the Pope will be where he ought to be, in Hell, tormented by great big poofter devils — and very active ones, not passive ones," she said.

Now the Rome prosecutor has been given permission to proceed against her under the 1929 Lateran Treaty.

The treaty, between the Vatican and the Italian government, was signed when fascist leader Benito Mussolini was in power.

It stipulated that an insult to the Pope carries the same penalty as an insult to the Italian President.

Permission to bring a prosecution has to be given by the Ministry of Justice.

Nobel prize-winning playwright Dario Fo said of the decision to take action against a comedian: "This is Fascism pure and simple."

Ms Guzzanti's father, a centre Right MP, was shocked by the prosecution.

According to The Times Paolo Guzzanti branded it: "a return to the Middle Ages. Perhaps my daughter should be be submitted to the judgement of God by being made to walk on hot coals."

Conservative media tycoon Silvio Berlusconi won the Italian general election in March and began his third term as Prime Minister.

His predecessor Romano Prodi's commitment to increased gay rights caused tension in the previous administration.

It lost the support of parliament in January after the nine-party coalition government he was leading fell apart.

Proposals from ministers to bring forward a draft bill that would grant any unwed couple, gay or straight, the right to register themselves as a family stalled.

The proposed new law would also have granted some pension and health insurance rights, but falls far short of the civil partnerships gay and lesbians in the UK enjoy.

Italy is perhaps the only country in Europe where the Roman Catholic Church retains such strong influence over politics.

Church-state relations have improved following Pope Benedict XVI's repeated attacks on the proposed legislation to recognise gay couples

The mind boggles.

eoin5

Who is bringing the prosecution? And if its part of the law why would they need permission? The mind boggles indeed!

Italy is a very religious country still.

Using a fascist era law would be akin to using some Westminster anti-sedition law here against protesters. Still law but frowned upon.

Mena

Barbarians. Strike one more country off my never to return to list.

I hope they fight this.

CDfm

it was a treaty after all between countries to accord the Pope as Head of the Papal States the same respect accorded to the Italian Head of State according to the Treaty.

Italians know this and the real issue in Italy these days is not gay rights but the cost of pasta.

Is this the same pope that cloased down an austrian seminary for rampant gay sex- he is not against gays - just wants them celibate - as it says in the bible gays are ok "but to lay with a man as you would a woman is Revolting"

So its not the Pope he has a problem with its his Boss.

Kinda fundamental Christian belief I think and its the Bible - I dont think the same comedian would do the same routine in Tehran - now theres a place who really deal with gay rights protestors by the book.

Zillah

CDfm wrote: »

Kinda fundamental Christian belief I think and its the Bible - I dont think the same comedian would do the same routine in Tehran - now theres a place who really deal with gay rights protestors by the book.

I find comparisons work well when we compare things to the best available, rather than the worst. For example, if I give out to someone for stealing my parking spot, I'd not be very impressed if they used the rationale that Hitler did far worse. Yes Tehran is awful, but I'd be more inclined to compare The Vatican to, say, Scandinavia. That puts things in a much clearer perspective I think.

CDfm

Zillah wrote: »

I find comparisons work well when we compare things to the best available, rather than the worst. For example, if I give out to someone for stealing my parking spot, I'd not be very impressed if they used the rationale that Hitler did far worse. Yes Tehran is awful, but I'd be more inclined to compare The Vatican to, say, Scandinavia. That puts things in a much clearer perspective I think.

My point is in Italy the Pope is accorded the courtesy equivalent to the Italian head of state. It marked the concluding part of Italian unification. Nothing fascist there no matter how someone tries to dress it up.

So the prosecution is a civil/criminal matter in Italy.Nothing to do with the Pope but a matter for the Italian authorities.

The other point of course is doctrinal and on matters of catholic morality the stance the church takes is a theological one. You cant blame the Pope for being Catholic.

Does he preach gay bashing - no he doesnt -he preaches tolerance while pointing out the theological issues.

So in answer to that great question that seems to be troubling you - is the Pope Catholic? Yes he is.

Zillah

CDfm wrote: »

Nothing fascist there no matter how someone tries to dress it up.

The Fascist comments are in relation to a person being prosecuted for speaking their mind. Y'know, that whole free speech thing.

As for the rest of your post, I have no idea whats going on.

Galvasean

This kind of reminds me of the Jerry Springer 'blasphemy' trial in the UK a while ago. Hopefully this too will fail spectacularly.

CDfm

Zillah wrote: »

The Fascist comments are in relation to a person being prosecuted for speaking their mind. Y'know, that whole free speech thing.

As for the rest of your post, I have no idea whats going on.

Its equivalent in Italy to insulting the office of the Italian President and as such an offence like burning the flag. In Britain there are similar laws making it illegal to deface the currency as an affront to the state.

So its a matter more serious than simple civil disobediance- the Pope does not have armed guards etc other than the Swiss Guards and anything promoting anything which might harm him is taken seriously. Personally I think the guy pulled a cheap publicity stunt and deserves prosecution.

If the Italians prosecute him on the basis that they have a duty to protect the pope so what.

In some countries these matters are taken seriously and throwing eggs at a Prime Minister would get serious jail time.

Zillah

Prosecuting someone for insulting the Prime Minister is a rather Fascist thing to do.

What developed nations will prosecute someone for insulting the Prime Minister?

CDfm

Zillah wrote: »

Prosecuting someone for insulting the Prime Minister is a rather Fascist thing to do.

What developed nations will prosecute someone for insulting the Prime Minister?

No. But doing a routine saying rape the pope at a rally is a bit more than that dont ya think.

Its not insulting its seditious.

You dont promote rape - not even as a joke

Dades

While I see the angle you're taking - I think your comparison to a head of state fall down in that people just don't get prosecuted for speaking out against the government (in the West, at least). That's what democracy is.

This may be a publicity stunt on both sides if you ask me, although the parties aren't working together.

Galvasean

CDfm wrote: »

You dont promote rape - not even as a joke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3av_qRR_DWc

CDfm

Its the Italian state thats doing the prosecution

Dont forget public prosectors get assassinated there and only 20 or so years ago Aldo Moro a former Prime Minister was kidnapped and murdered.

The last Pope was shot in Spain.

We dont really have an Irish equivalent to compare it against - not in recent times anyway.

CDfm

Galvasean wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3av_qRR_DWc

bold very bold

Zillah

We should rape the Pope though.

Dades

There are no circumstances where that post would make sense, Zillah.

Mena

Dades wrote: »

There are no circumstances where that post would make sense, Zillah.

Would make perfect sense in a public forum in Italy! :mad:

eoin5

CDfm wrote: »

No. But doing a routine saying rape the pope at a rally is a bit more than that dont ya think.

Its not insulting its seditious.

You dont promote rape - not even as a joke

Yeah taboo! Its really helped the victims of rape in the past...

CDfm

Me thinks Gay Pride is another Oxymoron:eek:

Nevyn

CDfm wrote: »

If the Italians prosecute him on the basis that they have a duty to protect the pope so what.

Her not him, she is an Italian actress devoted to comedy and satire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabina_Guzzanti

Sabina Guzzanti daughter of Paolo Guzzanti who isa former Italian political commentator and journalist and an Italian senator.

Seems that they are looking to shut her up, embrass her father and are using an old law which still stands to do it.

Galvasean

The law was brought in by Mussolini.
Surely taht should be enough to throw the case out the window?

robindch

Galvasean wrote: »

The law was brought in by Mussolini. Surely that should be enough to throw the case out the window?

Nope -- a law's a law, regardless of who introduced it. I'd imagine there's more fascist-approved law in Italy than just that one, probably the same in Germany, Japan and elsewhere. Even here in Ireland, I believe there's some Victorian-era statues still on the books (there certainly was up to a few years ago).

And, of course, the 1933 Reichskonkordat between the Vatican and Hitler's Germany is still in force.

ironingbored

Thaedydal wrote: »

Her not him, she is an Italian actress devoted to comedy and satire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabina_Guzzanti

Sabina Guzzanti daughter of Paolo Guzzanti who isa former Italian political commentator and journalist and an Italian senator.

Seems that they are looking to shut her up, embrass her father and are using an old law which still stands to do it.

Sabina Guzzanti is not an actress more a comedian and excellent satirist much admired by Nobel prizewinner Dario Fo. Both Sabina and her brother Corrado would be very critical of the political caste in Italy as well as Berlusconi's stranglehold on 90% of Italy's media. Their father Paolo is a senator for berlusconi's Forza Italia party and infamous for initiating a series of convoluted parliamentary invesitigations, one of which tried to implicate Romano Prodi as the KGB's top man in Italy. Senatore Guzzanti has not one shred of credibility.

As a result of the above, no one is trying to embarass her father as they are at polar opposites of the political divide. The government of Don Berlusconi are attempting to deflect the spotlight away from the true purpose of the recent rally; highlighting the anomaly that is Berlusoni's immense conflict of interest in a supposedly western democracy.

MrPudding

Zillah wrote: »

We should rape the Pope though.

Please stay where you are Zillah. I have reported you to the Italian authorities and an Italian / Vatican strike force of elite storm troopers in on their way.

MrP

Dades

MrPudding wrote: »

Please stay where you are Zillah. I have reported you to the Italian authorities and an Italian / Vatican strike force of elite storm troopers in on their way.

Ahh, so that's what the "Report" button is for?!

CerebralCortex

MrPudding wrote: »

Please stay where you are Zillah. I have reported you to the Italian authorities and an Italian / Vatican strike force of elite storm troopers in on their way.

MrP

A display of force here

Mr. Presentable

You people have some weird ideas about what fascism means. The comment in the OPs quote should have used the word "bully" rather than "fascist". George Orwell was right:

The word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. — George Orwell, What is Fascism?. 1944

The lady broke the law, irrespective of when the law was set (and note the use of the name Mussolini in the OP as an evocative term - it does not say he scribed or even supported the law) and while it may be argued it's a daft law, she can make her argument in court.

MrPudding

Dades wrote: »

Ahh, so that's what the "Report" button is for?!

Ha, I suppose you thought the vBulletin upgrade was all about improving the user experience?

MrP

studiorat

That's just one in a long line of measures against liberalism in Italy at the moment. A lot of people there are quite worried about the way things are turning there right now.

Meanwhilehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2958021/Italian-man-catches-wife-in-bed-with-priest.html he-he!