Return of the Terraces?

leninbenjamin

bbc.co.uk/football wrote:

Lib Dems to debate safe standing

The Liberal Democrats are set to back a fan-led campaign to return standing areas to all British football stadia.

A motion on the controversial subject will be debated at the Lib Dems' autumn conference in Bournemouth on Sunday.

Stadia in England's top two tiers have had to be all-seater since the Taylor Report into the Hillsborough disaster.

"If fans want to stand, and clubs want to let them, we should at least explore safe ways of achieving it," said Lib Dem sports spokesman Don Foster.

"This is a sensitive issue but we cannot ignore the large numbers of fans who want to stand and are doing so in seating areas, despite the existing regulations and the danger it causes.

"Given the seeming impossibility of policing existing regulations, and recognising that some passionate fans want to be able to jump up and down, then we need to look at technologies that allow them to do that safely.


We congratulate the Liberal Democrats' decision to debate safe standing and would encourage all political parties to follow suit

Malcolm Clarke
Football Supporters' Federation
"Football has taken enormous steps in recent years with more diverse crowds, improved stadium designs and better policing. These proposals would in no way seek to undermine that progress."

The Football Supporters' Federation (FSF) and Stand Up Sit Down have led the campaign to re-open the case for standing sections.

They point to German stadia as an example of how this can be done without jeopardising safety and they have drawn attention to the fact fans are allowed to stand at football matches outside the top two divisions, rugby matches and even music events at football stadia.

Concerns over ticket prices, an ageing crowd demographic, falling attendances at some grounds and a perceived lack of atmosphere at many venues have also contributed to the growing calls for a return to standing.

But the campaigners' efforts have been ignored so far by the government and the football authorities, particularly the Football Licensing Authority, the body created to implement the Taylor Report's post-Hillsborough recommendations.

Ninety-six supporters died on 15 April 1989 when the Leppings Lane end at Sheffield Wednesday's ground became over-crowded at the start of an FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest.

The official inquiry, conducted by Lord Taylor, blamed poor policing and inadequate facilities for the tragedy but the main recommendation was for the introduction of all-seater stadia and the removal of perimeter fencing.

Arsenal's North Bank in the early 1970s
The traditional British football terrace was a popular but basic structure
British football, embarrassed by years of hooliganism and tired of second-rate facilities, did not need a second invitation and the era of packed terraces was quickly consigned to the past. The authorities have regarded any attempt to reintroduce standing as a "retrograde step".

But Malcolm Clarke, the chair of the FSF, said: "When nine of 10 fans want the option to stand, it's something that should be provided. Standing still occurs in the lower divisions and the government acknowledges it is not inherently unsafe.

"We congratulate the Liberal Democrats' decision to debate safe standing and would encourage all political parties to follow suit.

"Safe standing isn't just about those who wish to stand, it's about those who want to sit and view the match in comfort too. Many have their enjoyment spoiled by those who wish to stand."

Foster, the shadow secretary for Culture, Media and Sport, is expected to vote in favour of the motion as is Portsmouth South MP Mike Hancock, who has proposed two Early Day Motions in Parliament on the subject of safe standing in recent years.

Conservative leader David Cameron has previously said his party would review the current situation if elected.

The Lib Dem debate is particularly timely as this weekend will also see football fans from 14 different countries unite in the "Eurostand 2008" campaign to demand the right to stand.

been noises on and off over the years, but i believe this is the first time the politicians have got involved? i know it's only the lib dems but it could be the start of something.

i for one prefer terraces myself, they always seem to have a better atmosphere.

CHD

FA said no chance of this like a couple of months a go didnt they?

Nearly sure Uefa, the Football League or someone did

OPENROAD

Personally would not like to see them back, also can't see it going ahead although.

applehunter

Good idea.

Hate sitting down at a match.

The Germans have it right

elshambo

Populist nonsence by The Liberal Democrats, a party, safe in the knowledge that they aint getting in can be everyones mate without having to face the string section!:eek:


I like standing at football, standing at LOI great, Standing on KOP/The Stretford End etc with a full house and some auld fella p*ssing in yer pocket/shoes, probably aint so good:D

Fifa/Uefa would not allow standing at internationals/European cup games (?)
so its a non starter

Dont the Germans close the standing ends for Euro games? id imagine they have to

leninbenjamin

OPENROAD wrote: »

Personally would not like to see them back,

how come, if you don't mind me asking? lazy?

elshambo

leninbenjamin wrote: »

been noises on and off over the years, but i believe this is the first time the politicians have got involved? i know it's only the lib dems but it could be the start of something.

i for one prefer terraces myself, they always seem to have a better atmosphere.

I do think the atmosphere was more to do with who was in the ground rather than how they were in the ground

Awful lot of day trippers at English games now
Atmos at LOI games still good even with the bucket seats

Xavi6

It can be done no hassle. All you have to do is look at Borussia Dortmund for an example of how it works.



Never really any hassle and great atmosphere on match days.

_blank_

Hate sitting down at matches.

The only people who'd be against this are people who don't go to games.

"ooooh stop singing you, I paid for my seat, now I'm going to sit down".

Or to quote a simpleton in Landsdowne one time, to me.

"Sit down and shut up will ya". Prick.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Xavi6

Ha ha yeah you get some tools alright. It's impossible not to stand up in the heat of the moment.

astrofool

The lib dems will back whatever policies will get them a few more votes, knowing full well that they'll never be in government to implement them (and they will have changed their policies if they look likely to get in anyway).

gixerfixer

Yeap great idea,but alas it is about as likely as an Irish team winning the Champions league

CiaranC

Sure where would you store your prawn sandwich and stuff from the club shop if not under your seat? Plus people would be able to meet up with their friends and sing, ruining the athmosphere!

Karmafaerie

Would make such a difference!

Gavin "shels"

Still a good few in the LoI, Limerick, Dundalk, Drogheda, Cobh, probably a few others. Can't beat the terraces anyway.

Dont hit me.:D

Helix

terraces ftw

therecklessone

Xavi6 wrote: »

It can be done no hassle. All you have to do is look at Borussia Dortmund for an example of how it works.

+1.

"The Wall" holds 24,000...some PL sides can't get that many to go through the turnstiles.

OPENROAD

leninbenjamin wrote: »

how come, if you don't mind me asking? lazy?

Possibly with Hillsborough in mind, looking back their was something awful about terraces at that time, always reminded me of animal cages thankfully Arsenal refused to put fencing up which is why they never used to get the FA cup semi final. But then after matches just like in the zoo, these cages used to be washed down. I know I am probably in a minority and actually at the time I was against terraces going but then you see what replaced them, and looking at Highbury at the time the excellent North Bank stand, with excellent facilities where people were now treated like humans.

But can't see clubs going for it and secondly can't see any UK government being brave enough to reintroduce it.

Mr Alan

Hillborough was nothing to do with terraces Openroad.

there is no studies showing terraces to be unsafe.

its used safely in loads of Europes leagus.

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

Hillborough was nothing to do with terraces Openroad.

there is no studies showing terraces to be unsafe.

its used safely in loads of Europes leagus.

well the fencing certainly did, yes their were a number of factors that contributed to Hilsborough and it is fair to say that terraces did not directly contribute directly to Hilsborough.

As I said earlier terraces will not make a come back in the UK, clubs/police/MPs won't allow it.

Mr Alan

fencing and policing is the issue at hand.

just dont think its fair to give off even the slightest impression that terraces are unsafe when they are most certainly arent.

you are right, the authorities will probably not allow it back as it would provide a little more work for them, but it'd be ****ing great if they did, and they should. The Premier League brings so much ****ing money and prestige into England, the least they should do is try and make it as good as possible for the fans.

unfortunately, common sense rarely prevails with these people.

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

fencing and policing is the issue at hand.

just dont think its fair to give off even the slightest impression that terraces are unsafe when they are most certainly arent.

you are right, the authorities will probably not allow it back as it would provide a little more work for them, but it'd be ****ing great if they did, and they should. The Premier League brings so much ****ing money and prestige into England, the least they should do is try and make it as good as possible for the fans.

unfortunately, common sense rarely prevails with these people.

The thing with terraces back then was you certainly got the impression that they were vastly overcrowded you could NEVER have a return to that.If they were reintroduced, it would be all ticket. But lets be honest as you say vast amounts of money in the game and clubs are happy with the type of supporter they have now.

Mr Alan

OPENROAD wrote: »

The thing with terraces back then was you certainly got the impression that they were vastly overcrowded you could NEVER have a return to that.If they were reintroduced, it would be all ticket. But lets be honest as you say vast amounts of money in the game and clubs are happy with the type of supporter they have now.

they were vastly overcrowded.

yea if they were reintroduced it would have to be all ticket so they could control better the amount of people in them with the modern ticketing procedures.

true enough, clubs may be happy with all the money they are raking in, but it doesnt mean we have to be happy and just accept it.

plus i think fitting a lot more people in, for a slightly lower fee, could be profitable for the clubs too. and they'd still have a the main stands for the people who dont wanna stand.

Helix

behind both goals should be terraced imo