Would you like to see a united Ireland?

djpbarry

TOMASJ wrote: »

You should check again...

Ok...

Yep, still British.

Mayo Exile wrote: »

So in a conflict situation, there is absolutely no allowances for mistakes then? If IRA bombers blow up a shopping centre because they think its an economic target and kill kids, if that F-16 pilot drops his bombs and some go astray wiping out that house, if a Russian tank gunner lets fly at a Georgian army truck full of soldiers and he misses and hits an apartment block full of people directly behind?

But the IRA bombs were not "strays", were they? They hit their intended targets, didn't they?

TOMASJ wrote: »

Thats the reason for my post,
I have assumed (by you logic) that if a vote for Sinn Fein is not necessarily a vote for a united Ireland. That a vote for the DUP UUP ect maybe a vote for a united Ireland, you were as clear as mud on that point.

I'm saying that a vote for a particular candidate is not necessarily a vote for 100% of that particular candidate's party's policies. It's quite simple really.

Mayo Exile

Originally posted by djp barry: But the IRA bombs were not "strays", were they? They hit their intended targets, didn't they?

To be frankly honest with you djp, I don't know. I know i'm asking of you an impossible action: but you'll have to ask the planners...........

aquascrotum

I'm intrigued as to how retired RUC officers, retired soldiers, prison officers and TA, who were individually targetted, are construed as military targets.

I'm intrigued as to how assasination of a busload of mill workers, blowing up hotels hosting a meeting of Collie club owners, shooting a bandsman locking up the community hall after band practice, or blowing up a rural village centre is construed as an economic target.

By the logic of some, a good few provo "targets" were very much mistakes.

The words and thoughts of some on here are why Unionists will not willingly accept a UI - the thought of the actions of the last 30 years ascending glorified into folklore as some sort of joyous freedom fight is sickening. Freedom fighters in a "war" don't cry foul and ask for compensation from the govt. when the big bad Brits start shooting back when they're caught red handed, a la Loughgall.

Everyone over the age of 15 has been touched pretty much directly by the troubles (on both sides) in NI. Personally, my father was firebombed (his crime, renting a garage in a loyalist housing estate). One best mates father was shot through the head through his kitchen window making his sons dinner, his crime being in the RUC. Another best mates father was assassinated locking up a band-hall after band practice. My uncle played dead to survive an ambush on an army patrol in Armagh, and managed to survive only losing a leg in the process. We bought our family home after the previous owner emigrated following the provos blowing up her husband in a booby trap car bomb.

I regard myself as fairly open minded regarding a united Ireland, I'm not anti-Irish, I've more Catholic and Irish friends than protestant - I'm engaged to a Catholic from Dublin.

But it'll be a cold day in hell before I'll sit back and allow Adams, McGuinness & co. to be glorified as freedom fighters by people who have never had to grow up in a genuine atmosphere of fear caused by these scum.

tv3

TOMASJ wrote: »

As far as I am aware several people were jailed for the killing of garda Mc Cabe,
If you were to use your logic (turn themselves in) Thatcher and her terrorist murdering scumbag cabinet, would all be still in jail for the crimes they committed in the occupied six counties.

This is spot on,why dont the brits actually take some responsiblity for what they do around the world???
At the end of the day the brits have caused this trouble and well deserved what they got!
Remember the irish people who were killed on there own land because of them sc*m who tried to take over there land!There is know way in the world that the north of ireland is the uk..."north of ireland"...eh no!!:Dexcept to the thick brits
You cant blame the world for hating the brits!

getz

correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't any move to unite ireland start a civil war ? i am sure the republic would not have the ability to deal with that

tv3

getz wrote: »

correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't any move to unite ireland start a civil war ? i am sure the republic would not have the ability to deal with that

And why would the republic not have the ability???:rolleyes:

djpbarry

Mayo Exile wrote: »

To be frankly honest with you djp, I don't know.

Oh, I think you do. Perhaps you could hypothesise on the "economic" or "military" motive behind the detonating of two bombs in two pubs at 8.30pm on a Thursday evening?

tv3 wrote: »

There is know way in the world that the north of ireland is the uk...

It is; repeating over and over again that it is not will not make it so.

tv3

No it is not and as i said look it up and come back with the right answer!

Or better still ask somebody with a bit of knowledge.:D

getz

tv3--note the united kingdom is the kingdom of scotland -the kingdom of england-the kingdom of wales-and the kingdom of northern ireland--it was once all of ireland untill the people in the south no longer wished to stay part of it -as for british atrocities around the world - nearly every single british colony around the world after self determination .remember the united kingdom with pride and still wish to be part of the commonwealth with the queen as its head--so not every thing british is bad--read your history books

djpbarry

tv3 wrote: »

No it is not and as i said look it up and come back with the right answer!

Or better still ask somebody with a bit of knowledge.:D

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/specials/0006/e.europe/countries/images/countries/united.kingdom.gif

Seems pretty clear to me.

dante18

I would love to see a united Ireland. I don't know how much money it would cost us but I'm sure we'll be able to manage. As long it doesn't plunge us back into a basket-case economy then I think we'll be alright. Speaking for myself, I would have no problem living with less disposable income in my pocket at the end of each week if it meant that our country was finally united.

dante18

djpbarry wrote:

Last time I checked, Nothern Ireland was British and has been for some time.

That's a very unpatriotic thing to say. The north is not British. It is Irish, always has been and always will be.

The north is clearly part of the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom but that doesn't mean that it's British. India wasn't British when it was governed by Britain.

getz

dante18 being northern irish is being british the united kingdom is ruled from parliament with mpsfrom england scotland northern ireland and wales - before the republic came to be the country that had the most mps was ireland -so you could say that ireland ruled britian ?anyway mid 19century what the irish said went ==they dident tell you that in your school--i know i was not

Fratton Fred

tv3 wrote: »

This is spot on,why dont the brits actually take some responsiblity for what they do around the world???
At the end of the day the brits have caused this trouble and well deserved what they got!
Remember the irish people who were killed on there own land because of them sc*m who tried to take over there land!There is know way in the world that the north of ireland is the uk..."north of ireland"...eh no!!:Dexcept to the thick brits
You cant blame the world for hating the brits!

and how is Brtain not taking responsibility? the Brits of today are paying for the legacy of their forefathers. There has been an enormous lack of development in NI, today the 1 million or so people in NI receive net £6.5bn of public money, to relates this, the 15 or so million people of the South East of England contribute net £40bn. Britsih tax payers are paying grants to Irish Language initiatives, GAA clubs, even the Truth Process is being paid for by British tax payers, when all they ever got out of NI was the threat of some mudering scumbag blowing them up on their way to work.

tv3 wrote: »

And why would the republic not have the ability???:rolleyes:

do you think they will then? MI5 had a network of spies that had infiltrated the loyalist death squads and they still struggled to control them.

getz

i seem to remember the irish press saying the gardia could not control some orange idiots marching in dublin was it last year ? but i can never see a united ireland as long as people are singing rebel or orange songs in the pubs or streets

thejamescaird

tv3 wrote: »

There is know way in the world that the north of ireland is the uk..."north of ireland"...eh no!!:Dexcept to the thick brits
You cant blame the world for hating the brits!

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the past we must now get on with life in the present which is where we actually live.

It is called "Northern Ireland" and it is in the UK.
This is accepted and voted for in the referendum north and south.
if you can't accept this simple overwhelming democratic decision then you are unreasonable plain and simple.

thejamescaird

I would love to see a united ireland where we can accomodate all sorts.
I would love to see a united Europe where we can live in peace and reasonableness and still keep our cultural identities especially the positive bits.
I would love to see and end to negative nationalism drawing on the mistakes of ancestors which seperates men into different tribes.

Down with nationalism british and irish.

getz

well said jamescard --when i was walking with my dog in kilkenny last year .i cut down one of the narrow lanes towards dunnes - in it playing music and singing was a irish lad --my dog refused to pass him -he said whats up -i said i don't know he hasent done this before -when he asked what kind of dog is it -i told him its a english[british]bulldog -ho he said now i know why -- i am singing reb songs--- honest this is true--i am back this year and the dogs a lot bigger

djpbarry

dante18 wrote: »

That's a very unpatriotic thing to say.

So?

getz

at least put a smile on your face:P

tv3

getz wrote: »

dante18 being northern irish is being british the united kingdom is ruled from parliament with mpsfrom england scotland northern ireland and wales - before the republic came to be the country that had the most mps was ireland -so you could say that ireland ruled britian ?anyway mid 19century what the irish said went ==they dident tell you that in your school--i know i was not

Complete rubbish..."northern irish is being british"...are you serious or is that a joke.You really didnt go to school did you or perhaps do proper research on it!Im 100% irish and i can tell you that the "north of eire" is irish weather you or anybody else like it!Always has being and always will be:D:P

tv3

getz wrote: »

i seem to remember the irish press saying the gardia could not control some orange idiots marching in dublin was it last year ? but i can never see a united ireland as long as people are singing rebel or orange songs in the pubs or streets

Correct you there..when the orange scum came to dublin the gardai were NOT needed as the irish public would take care and prove the orange scum were not welcome down south and never will be!
They are trouble among other things were ever they go!:rolleyes:

dante18

djpbarry wrote: »

So?

So don't expect to have much success in changing the minds of your fellow countrymen. Most Irish people are patriotic and we take it for granted that everyone else in the country feels the same way. We tend to ignore the view of those people who aren't.

djpbarry

tv3 wrote: »

..when the orange scum crowd came to dublin the gardai were NOT needed as the irish public a few scumbags with nothing better to do tore up O'Connell Street for no good reason, causing tens of thousands of euros' worth of damage in the process would take care...

Fixed that for you.

dante18 wrote: »

Most Irish people are patriotic and we take it for granted that everyone else in the country feels the same way. We tend to ignore the view of those people who aren't.

:rolleyes:

As open-minded as that is, it's not how democracy works.

getz

i take it then tv3 that non of your grand parents or family ever needed to go over to the uk to make a living and feed the family ? not so nasty britain then was it ?-- i know my grand parents did as over one million southern irish -most of the staying and making it home

oscarBravo

Anyone who's not interested in having a grown-up conversation, feel free not to bother posting. tv3, I'm looking at you in particular.

getz

how could united ireland ever come about any ideas ? -- maybe by sport football ect --religion i know the anglican church is talking to the vatican to come back under one roof--how about the republic joining the commonwealth [that will please royalists] --i may well be way off the mark -but we are the same race afterall

Fratton Fred

UK adopts the Euro and changes all the road signs to KM/H, Stormont has complete control and somehow manages to stop behaving like spoilt children arguing over who has the most sweets, RUC becomes a normal, decent police force.

The south adopts a smiliar health service to the UK and somehow both countries come up with similar tax regimes, maybe even things like similar car registration plates etc.

Common education system, run by the respective states not a church, but with the provision of religious schools for those wishing to send their kids to one

Businesses start charging people north and south of the border the same rates for the same goods.

If all that happens, I seriously doubt many people would be too worried about unification and eventually it will happen without people noticing.

All the time it is seen as a victory for one side and a defeat for the other, it will never happen.

getz

i like the bit about changing the road signs into km pity it hasent been done in ireland yet,also i don't like the idea of driving on the other side of the road like they do in the republic [oups]

thehighground

getz wrote: »

tv3--note the united kingdom is the kingdom of scotland -the kingdom of england-the kingdom of wales-and the kingdom of northern ireland--it was once all of ireland untill the people in the south no longer wished to stay part of it -as for british atrocities around the world - nearly every single british colony around the world after self determination .remember the united kingdom with pride and still wish to be part of the commonwealth with the queen as its head--so not every thing british is bad--read your history books

Hi getz

Thank you for your advice. Can I respectfully suggest that you read some history books that have not been written by British historians.

While you as a British person might feel proud to have such a 'wonderful' heritage (which seems to me to be mostly war mongering), us ex-foot soldiers and cannon fodder of British Empiralist wars might not see it exactly the same way.

Did I read in the last day or two something about Gurkhas, great servants of the British Army are not allowed live in Britain?

PS - and there is no such place as the Kingdom of Northern Ireland and I think Wales is a Principality not a Kingdom. I'm surprised you didn't learn that in school in Britain :rolleyes: