Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever Thanks to DRM

MooseJam

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Torrenting it shows that there is a demand there, that you *would* purchase it if the DRM didn't exist.

fixed

robby^5

projectmayhem wrote: »

The more we hear of DRM and piracy, the more I'm reminded of Valve. They do it much better. Online authentication attached to a specific service that allows you to have your game in an "online locker". It avoids piracy and keeps people like me happy

Exactly, in this day and age where you'll rarely find a PC gamer without an internet connection you'd think more people would follow in valves footsteps.

Canis Lupus

What would ever, in worst case scenario if Valve went tits up and their servers shut down.

What then exactly?

I like steam but I don't think it's the the way forward for everyone unless it can be guaranteed that people will have access for as long as they live.

Cuddlesworth

Canis Lupus wrote: »

What would ever, in worst case scenario if Valve went tits up and their servers shut down.

What then exactly?

I like steam but I don't think it's the the way forward for everyone unless it can be guaranteed that people will have access for as long as they live.

I would assume that they could write a patch allowing offline registration for the steam client. You can make your own backups of your games from within Steam.

FYI their activation and authentication servers did go down before during a huge blackout in the States.

thelordofcheese

MooseJam wrote: »

fixed

Don't talk bollox.
You're fooling no-one with that "ohh if there was no DRM i'd buy it" excuse.
If there was no DRM you could still get it for free via torrenting.

The fact that you've already torrented as some kind of protest shows you're quite comfortable with inventing justifications for downloading games, i'm sure you'd invent another reason to torrent something if you felt you could justify it.

The price of games maybe? You don't like what the publisher has done to company/fanchise X?

Kernel

steviec wrote: »

You decided the gameplay wasn't interesting enough to buy the game, yet it's still interesting enough for you to pirate it and play it?

Huh? How do you arrive at thte conclusion that I pirated the game????

projectmayhem

Canis Lupus wrote: »

What would ever, in worst case scenario if Valve went tits up and their servers shut down.

What then exactly?

I like steam but I don't think it's the the way forward for everyone unless it can be guaranteed that people will have access for as long as they live.

Financially I'm sure Valve are just fine. Someone like EA could easily do this and be fine forever. They have a primitive service with the EA Downloader (or EA Link... whatever its called these days) that works fine. Theoretically all you need is a large file server with a lot of bandwidth, and even the smallest, puniest of companies can afford that.

In terms of physically keeping the service going, there have been two incidents where storms cut out Valves services, making everyone with steam "locked out" of their accounts. I think since then Valve have adopted backup servers...

Stev_o

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Wow, if *only* there were some way to find out what other people thought of the product before you purchased it, some kind of published periodical on the subject. Or maybe even a website that did that....
Or maybe some kind of place online where people can discuss games that have been recently released and how they feel about them.

Pity none of those exist, because if they did, boy would your argument look stupid......

Clearly complete strangers words on the internet will thus give you a great feel for the gameplay :rolleyes:

The amount of BS on the internet makes your argument void how can anyone get the feel for a game by just reading someone's opinion? If there's no demo how the f*ck are going to know if you'll enjoy the game?

MooseJam

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Don't talk bollox.
You're fooling no-one with that "ohh if there was no DRM i'd buy it" excuse.
If there was no DRM you could still get it for free via torrenting.

The fact that you've already torrented as some kind of protest shows you're quite comfortable with inventing justifications for downloading games, i'm sure you'd invent another reason to torrent something if you felt you could justify it.

The price of games maybe? You don't like what the publisher has done to company/fanchise X?

you're the one talkin bollox mate, I buy games I don't download them, I've literally got 100's of PC games, however I don't buy games crippled by drm, that would just be daft

thelordofcheese

MooseJam wrote: »

you're the one talkin bollox mate, I buy games I don't download them, I've literally got 100's of PC games, however I don't buy games crippled by drm, that would just be daft

But you will download them, out of 'protest'.....

Maximilian

thelordofcheese wrote: »

But you will download them, out of 'protest'.....

I bought the game but I'm tempted to also download it just to add to the numbers & help make a point.

thelordofcheese

Maximilian wrote: »

I bought the game but I'm tempted to also download it just to add to the numbers & help make a point.

My problem is that I really don't think it is making the point to EA that you want it to make.
They're not able to tell what's a protest download and what is someone actually stealing the game. You can make the case either way given these figures but a publisher is going to look at the amount of people downloading spore and see potential customers who've gotten the product for free because the DRM wasn't strong enough.
And i can see where they're coming from, why should they invest millions in a product have people work like slaves in order to get it released just so people can steal it?

If people *really* wanted to make a point, they'd just not buy the game. This torrenting as protest is a farce, really. No matter how anyone tries to justify it.

TheDoc

Bought this game ,drm shafted me, went back demanded refund and got one, cash. No where on the package does it mention DRM.

Its no wonder people download games, and tbh 60 euro for this game was absolute robbery.

I think im gonna stay away from spending my hard earned cash on crap overhyped tripe...and i dont care if the means of which I gain my games brings the gaming industry to its knees... I'm not spenidng anymore money on pc games because of their dodgy bugs on release, drm and anti pirating methods that blow...and all round general not any use games.

thelordofcheese

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Bought this game ,drm shafted me, went back demanded refund and got one, cash. No where on the package does it mention DRM.

Its no wonder people download games, and tbh 60 euro for this game was absolute robbery.

I think im gonna stay away from spending my hard earned cash on crap overhyped tripe...and i dont care if the means of which I gain my games brings the gaming industry to its knees... I'm not spenidng anymore money on pc games because of their dodgy bugs on release, drm and anti pirating methods that blow...and all round general not any use games.

That was a bad post and you should feel bad.

Maximilian

thelordofcheese wrote: »

My problem is that I really don't think it is making the point to EA that you want it to make.
They're not able to tell what's a protest download and what is someone actually stealing the game. You can make the case either way given these figures but a publisher is going to look at the amount of people downloading spore and see potential customers who've gotten the product for free because the DRM wasn't strong enough.
And i can see where they're coming from, why should they invest millions in a product have people work like slaves in order to get it released just so people can steal it?

If people *really* wanted to make a point, they'd just not buy the game. This torrenting as protest is a farce, really. No matter how anyone tries to justify it.

I don't think EA can be oblivious to it. It is being reported all over on news sites. Forums everywhere have people saying they refuse to buy it & will download out of protest. Of course, the numbers can be interpreted as being just simple piracy but that they can also be interpreted as protests. I can't see EA not taking notice of that.

There are other ways to protest though, such as the amazon ratings thing.

BadCharlie

Stev_o wrote: »

Clearly complete strangers words on the internet will thus give you a great feel for the gameplay :rolleyes:

The amount of BS on the internet makes your argument void how can anyone get the feel for a game by just reading someone's opinion? If there's no demo how the f*ck are going to know if you'll enjoy the game?

That's how things used to work before we had the internet. And in my mind it worked fine then.


Back to OP, We will never get away from Pirating. Its just to easy to sit at home with our BB & click on the simple link to start the download. People want to experience the games without having to pay for them. I my self download games from time to time but mostly buy them. And I could see how you could get hooked on downloading the games. Especially since the BB is getting faster. Bring back 56k that should slow down Pirating

thelordofcheese

Maximilian wrote: »

I don't think EA can be oblivious to it. It is being reported all over on news sites. Forums everywhere have people saying they refuse to buy it & will download out of protest. Of course, the numbers can be interpreted as being just simple piracy but that they can also be interpreted as protests. I can't see EA not taking notice of that.

There are other ways to protest though, such as the amazon ratings thing.

I still say the best way to protest is just not to buy it. It's a clear and unambigious message. The other problem with the downloading as protest model is what you're essentially doing is stealing the product and going "i've taken this because i disagree with your DRM but i'm still showing enough interest in the game to download it"

Even if we take everyone who says that the reason they've downloaded it is as protest and that they just deleted it afterwards to be telling the truth, that's still a hell of alot of people who are interested in Spore. Now, from EA's standpoint they don't really have any other option but to look at new ways to make it harder and harder to copy games so that these people will be forced to by games like spore.

I know people would want a DRM free world, but lets face it, This is EA we're talking about, even if they had no DRM then people would just steal from them anyway. It's EA there are a thousand hollow excuses as to why it's ok. "they have plenty of money anyway", "They killed westwood", "Fifa-fucking-street".
What do people expect them to do? just let people steal their stuff and go "ohh, that's ok".

Like i said, if people really wanted to send a message that they're not ok with their current DRM model, not buying spore would send the clearest message.

TheDoc

thelordofcheese wrote: »

That was a bad post and you should feel bad.

I wonder do developers feel bad taking 60 euro of me for a game worth about 20.

My new motto is if i can get **** for free, im gonna get it, why should i feel bad.

Theres enough people out there still going to buy it...and with the way my income is and my expenditure, i cant afford to be splashing out on hyped games that turn out to be pants...


But this isnt a review thread, the DRM, just makes people wanna priate more. Why should legally paying customers get the shaft end, its almost as bad as eircom in fairness.

I agree with the steam scenario, i think its brilliant. You download games, cant play them cracked really. And they are way cheaper aswell.

Company of heros and exp is 45 euro in gamestop ( robbers)

29 dollars on steam, works out like 20 euro or less.

thelordofcheese

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

My new motto is if i can get **** for free, im gonna get it, why should i feel bad.

Because that's stealing and that's generally considered to be bad.

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Theres enough people out there still going to buy it...and with the way my income is and my expenditure, i cant afford to be splashing out on hyped games that turn out to be pants...

then do some research into games before splashing out, jesus fucking christ, i can't believe you're using you're own poor judgement as an excuse to steal games.
You're supposed to be an adult, right? Then take responsibility for your own decisions, you bought a game, you didn't like it.
Tough shit. That's life. People make mistakes, just because you've bought a game you don't like that does not justify piracy in any way shape or form.
If you can't afford to take risks like that, then you can't. When people can't afford to buy something on a whim, they don't. They don't steal it and go "ohh, well it *might* have been bad". Grow up.

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

But this isnt a review thread, the DRM, just makes people wanna priate more.

No, it gives people who want to pirate stuff a convenient scapegoat for their actions.

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Why should legally paying customers get the shaft end, its almost as bad as eircom in fairness.

Why should developers get shafted because you think it's ok to steal their product provided you come up with some half assed excuse.

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

I agree with the steam scenario, i think its brilliant. You download games, cant play them cracked really. And they are way cheaper aswell.

Company of heros and exp is 45 euro in gamestop ( robbers)

29 dollars on steam, works out like 20 euro or less.

So the markup that bricks and mortar shops put on their product is justifcation for stealing it even though you freely admit that if you shop around you can get it cheaper?
what the hell is wrong with you?

Otacon

thelordofcheese wrote: »

I still say the best way to protest is just not to buy it. It's a clear and unambigious message. The other problem with the downloading as protest model is what you're essentially doing is stealing the product and going "i've taken this because i disagree with your DRM but i'm still showing enough interest in the game to download it"

Not that I agree with the downloading of it, but if someone doesn't buy it, could that not be saying that "I have no interest in this game, therefore I am not buying it".

If someone does protest the DRM by pirating it, are they not saying "I am interested in this game, but I would rather pirate it to play it than put up with your crappy DRM", meaning "You are losing my business over this" versus "I wasn't getting it anyway."

thelordofcheese

Otacon wrote: »

Not that I agree with the downloading of it, but if someone doesn't buy it, could that not be saying that "I have no interest in this game, therefore I am not buying it".

If someone does protest the DRM by pirating it, are they not saying "I am interested in this game, but I would rather pirate it to play it than put up with your crappy DRM", meaning "You are losing my business over this" versus "I wasn't getting it anyway."

I was working off the theory of less sales && internet nerd rage == stronger message.

Plus any piracy on this scale, would, in my eyes, make a stronger case for protecting your product, seeing as so many people stole it, regardless of their intentions.

Otacon

I just thought your possible plan of protest was flawed in its likely outcome!

Anyway, consoles ftw! :pac:

thelordofcheese

Otacon wrote: »

I just thought your possible plan of protest was flawed in its likely outcome!

to be fair, i think that spore will sell so much that it won't matter how you protest, EA won't care. But if you have to protest then i'd believe in going down the route that is the most legitimate.

Otacon wrote: »

Anyway, consoles ftw! :pac:

Ohh jesus, now you've done it..... It'll be a PC vs Console flamewar in about five posts.

Ciaran500

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Plus any piracy on this scale, would, in my eyes, make a stronger case for protecting your product, seeing as so many people stole it, regardless of their intentions.

Piracy always happens to PC games, these pirates always download games and shouldn't be considered a lost sale. When this amount of people pirate the game it shows that people that would normally buy the game are pirating it cause they aren't willing to buy a limited game.

thelordofcheese wrote: »

to be fair, i think that spore will sell so much that it won't matter how you protest, EA won't care. But if you have to protest then i'd believe in going down the route that is the most legitimate

The backlash from Mass Effect caused them to change the protection on Spore, the initial backlash from Spore led EA to change the activation limit to 5 for Red Alert 3. EA are listening.

RabidDog

You can't overlook the fact that the DRM used on Spore has had practically no effect on piracy. It (SecuROM) was cracked before the game was even on general release.

The game itself was available on public torrent sites at least 24 hours before the official release.

And this isn't the first time, every EA game in the past using SecuROM (and even this version - Sims 2 and Mass Effect) have been cracked within 24 hours of release. So they (EA) must know that SecuROM has little effect on piracy.

And then there's the fact that BioShock, which also uses SecuROM, allowed you to regain an activation by uninstalling the game. EA purposefully left this out.

My point is that I believe that the limited activations were put in place to prevent second hand selling (and swapping, passing on etc) and not to prevent piracy.


I would have had absolutely no problem with Spore's DRM if it had online activation (like Company of Heroes Opposing Fronts) or even used BioShock's method (which I also own and have never had a problem with).

RabidDog

Ciaran500 wrote: »

The backlash from Mass Effect caused them to change the protection on Spore, the initial backlash from Spore led EA to change the activation limit to 5 for Red Alert 3. EA are listening.

Unless un-installing the game returns an activation they are not really listening.

steviec

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Piracy always happens to PC games, these pirates always download games and shouldn't be considered a lost sale.

And that's why DRM is necessary. I know the response to that is "the DRM didn't work", but companies are going to keep trying stronger DRM until it does work, and eventually those pirates are going to have to pay for their games, or just not play them. It only takes 1% of pirates to actually be lost sales for it to be worth it.

And Spore is the most pirated game ever because it's the most recent big release. Whatever the biggest PC release is on any given year is going to be the most pirated game ever because piracy levels rise each year and there will obviously be more interest in games with the kind of hype Spore had. The DRM is just a convenient excuse.

Ciaran500

steviec wrote: »

And that's why DRM is necessary. I know the response to that is "the DRM didn't work", but companies are going to keep trying stronger DRM until it does work, and eventually those pirates are going to have to pay for their games, or just not play them. It only takes 1% of pirates to actually be lost sales for it to be worth it.

People have to stop thinking pirated game = lost sale. By far the majority of pirates will not buy games if they can't download them and companies are starting to piss people off and loose customers by trying to stop them.

thelordofcheese

Ciaran500 wrote: »

People have to stop thinking pirated game = lost sale.

Why. If someone has taken a copy of something i've worked on, then what else could it possibly be?

Ciaran500 wrote: »

By far the majority of pirates will not buy games if they can't download them and companies are starting to piss people off and loose customers by trying to stop them.

People download them because it's easy. You don't have to be technically literate to pirate PC games. If the process becomes difficult then people will be forced back to actually purchasing things in order to get what they want because it's less effort to buy it legit than to pirate it. It's a law of nature, people take the path that rewards them the most for the least amount of effort.
At the moment, piracy is easier than paying for alot of people, so they do it.
If it becomes harder to pirate they'll return to purchasing.


As an example, people cite the Steam system, but it is possible to pirate copies of HL2, portal etc etc. The reason it's not so prolific is because it's harder to do. Meanwhile steam is right fucking there, with it's own DRM that's only a step below the current EA model, but it's easier to buy stuff on steam.

steviec

Ciaran500 wrote: »

People have to stop thinking pirated game = lost sale. By far the majority of pirates will not buy games if they can't download them and companies are starting to piss people off and loose customers by trying to stop them.

And what I said is just 1% of pirated games need to be lost sales for it to be worth company's while to pursue DRM. It's impossible to know the exact amount of pirated games that would have been sales, but I'd guess it's something like 5-10%

And that's not entirely the point. "I wouldn't have bought it anyway if I couldn't steal it" isn't really a valid excuse, you're still taking someone's work without their permission. Maybe you wouldn't have bought it now, but you would have picked it up from a bargain bin a year down the road. Or the time you spent playing that pirated game is time you might have spent playing another game that you would have legally purchased.