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Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever Thanks to DRM

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    #152
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    all of those definitions of theft assume a transfer of possesion , the person who had it originally does not any more, something tangible has gone, it's not hard to understand now is it


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    #153
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    MooseJam wrote: »
    yes but you don't aquire the item, you make a copy of it , how many times does it have to be said


    ACQUIRE
    –verb (used with object), -quired, -quir·ing.

    1. to come into possession or ownership of [but only if you physically hold the thing in question and by no other means, oh and there can only be one thing]


    I fixed the definition for you so that it accords with your own viewpoint.

    Seriously though to clarify, by copying, the software comes into your possession, illegally, by virtue of you having copied it. It is completely irrelevant that the original copy remains in possession of the legal owner or licensee as it happens (the irony is that the legal owner doesn't own it at all, he is merely a licensee)

    This whole argument is pedantic. You either agree that piracy is - let's call it wrong/illegal shall we - or it's not.


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    #154
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    yawn yes you have aquired something but you haven't aquired THE fuppin object, you copied it duh


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    #155
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    MooseJam wrote: »
    a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use


    nothing is taken by piracy, a copy is made, it's not theft end of

    Of course something is taken. You end up with a game, don't you? Maybe you suppose the millions that go into creating games is paid out for no end product. Or possibly you are under the misconception that you are paying €60 for a box and a little plastic disk - everything else comes free. Admit it, you are just too cheap or broke to pay for a game.


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    #156
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    nothing is taken, what does the original owner no longer have ? what is missing ? what is gone ? what is no longer there ? please answer any of the four preceding questions

    do you not understand what copy means ? I don't even copy the original , it's a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, a thousand times removed from the original, we may as well be in different universes


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    #157
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    MooseJam wrote: »
    nothing is taken, what does the original owner no longer have ? what is missing ? what is gone ? what is no longer there ? please answer any of the four preceding questions

    do you not understand what copy means ? I don't even copy the original , it's a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, a thousand times removed from the original, we may as well be in different universes

    Ok, lets assume you're right (you aren't but lets be crazy for a second) and it's only infringment.
    Are you telling everyone here that this distinction that you make excuses piracy? Or do you view it as a lesser crime more akin to jaywalking because of this distinction?


    Or are you just an insufferable pedant?


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    #158
    jonny72
    Closed Accounts Posts: 674 ✭✭✭jonny72


    MooseJam wrote: »
    yawn yes you have aquired something but you haven't aquired THE fuppin object, you copied it duh

    COPIED data is what you are paying for. The game 'spore' is copied data from the original. You have to pay for this copy. If you don't pay for this copy then you are stealing the data. That is illegal. Why is there an argument about this?


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    #159
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    jonny72 wrote: »
    COPIED data is what you are paying for. The game 'spore' is copied data from the original. You have to pay for this copy. If you don't pay for this copy then you are stealing the data. That is illegal. Why is there an argument about this?


    yes we know it's illegal, but it's not theft, no one has ever been charged with theft over downloading stuff why is that ? you need to actually physically take property to have stolen something


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    #160
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Or do you view it as a lesser crime more akin to jaywalking because of this distinction?

    actually I'd consider jaywalking worse, you could after all hurt yourself or a driver, pirating hurts no one


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    #161
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    MooseJam wrote: »
    yes we know it's illegal, but it's not theft, no one has ever been charged with theft over downloading stuff why is that ? you need to actually physically take property to have stolen something

    O R lY?

    Plenty of people have been charged and faced hefty fines & jailtime.
    So your argument at this point is that it's called infringment not theft, so it's ok?
    MooseJam wrote: »
    actually I'd consider jaywalking worse, you could after all hurt yourself or a driver, pirating hurts no one

    Ahh, the victimless crime angle.

    Just what is it that makes you think you deserve these games for free? Why do you think you are entitled to just take them, where as other people have to pay?


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    #162
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    O R lY?

    Plenty of people have been charged and faced hefty fines & jailtime.
    So your argument at this point is that it's called infringment not theft, so it's ok?

    In fairness he said noone was charged with theft. I don't think any of those were charged with theft.


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    #163
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    In fairness he said noone was charged with theft. I don't think any of those were charged with theft.

    i know, but the implication was nobody had been charged and therefore it was a lesser crime.
    I was just pointing out it's not.


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    #164
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    just because people are jailed for it does not make it bad, they shoot you in the head in china for pretty trivial stuff


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    #165
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Just what is it that makes you think you deserve these games for free? Why do you think you are entitled to just take them, where as other people have to pay?


    yeah well they don't have to do they, thats the point, you obviously think you are doing the right thing by buying games and you are all bitter and twisted that other don't have to pony up the dough for it, thats your problem


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    #166
    Azza
    Moderators Posts: 5,558 ✭✭✭Azza


    Hi guys just point out that EA have annouced they will patch Spore which will allow you to free up activations similar to ITunes system.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=239766

    Its mention half way down in the Eurogamer article.

    Its a move that many people widely suspected would happen sooner or later.
    Think this whole DRM thing with Spore was blown way out of proportion.

    I think the whole idea of this type of DRM system is to limit day zero piracy (but its proven to have failed totally)

    I think thats where Valve get it right. There games are difficult to crack for a while or so when they are tied in with steam, so while valves games will eventually appear for download you won't get them at the time of there release so many potental pirates will get impatient and just buy those games.


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    #167
    Mr Bloat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭Mr Bloat


    Maximilian wrote: »
    I'm now expecting someone to argue that there can be no piracy except at sea and whilst wearing an eyepatch.

    Actually, it's nearly that time again. Arrr, mateys!


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    #168
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    MooseJam wrote: »
    yeah well they don't have to do they, thats the point, you obviously think you are doing the right thing by buying games and you are all bitter and twisted that other don't have to pony up the dough for it, thats your problem

    Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should. Which is pretty much the point, i could pirate every game i ever wanted, but i don't because i think it's wrong.
    More to the point, you know it's wrong too, it's just easier to create these innane justifications so you don't feel bad about stealing these games anjd worse that you feel entitled to steal them.


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    #169
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    Azza wrote: »
    Hi guys just point out that EA have annouced they will patch Spore which will allow you to free up activations similar to ITunes system.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=239766

    Its mention half way down in the Eurogamer article.

    Its a move that many people widely suspected would happen sooner or later.
    Think this whole DRM thing with Spore was blown way out of proportion.

    I think the whole idea of this type of DRM system is to limit day zero piracy (but its proven to have failed totally)

    I think thats where Valve get it right. There games are difficult to crack for a while or so when they are tied in with steam, so while valves games will eventually appear for download you won't get them at the time of there release so many potental pirates will get impatient and just buy those games.

    Cheers for that, i suspected it was coming but nice to get confirmation.


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    #170
    Benzino
    Registered Users Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭Benzino


    interesting discussion I must say.

    Personally, I don't like downloading games as i feel the developers deserve money for the hard work they put into a game. I have spoken to guys from Rockstar and Real Time Worlds who worked on the GTA 4 and Crackdown, hell i have even worked on a game myself, and the amount of work that is involved in the process, the dedication these guys give to the jobs, sometimes at the expense of their personal lives and health, is unbelievable.

    Of course that is the moral side of it all.


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    #171
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should. Which is pretty much the point, i could pirate every game i ever wanted, but i don't because i think it's wrong.
    More to the point, you know it's wrong too, it's just easier to create these innane justifications so you don't feel bad about stealing these games anjd worse that you feel entitled to steal them.

    how can you feel bad about a free lunch, you pay 50 odd quid for a restricted version, I get it for free and generally in a better condition and I'm supposed to feel bad. You're perfectly entitled to feel it's wrong to pirate but that doesn't make it so, and it doesn't give you the right to look at pirates as scum, seriously which is worse downloading a game or viewing a large percentage of the population as scum, you are in the minority.


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    #172
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Benzino wrote: »
    Personally, I don't like downloading games as i feel the developers deserve money for the hard work they put into a game.

    Nine times out of ten a game I play will leave me frustrated and disappointed at the bad design decisions and lack of playtesting. I would be a very bitter person if I had paid for all those games. I will pay for games that impress me.

    There is no way in hell I am paying 50+ euro up front for the kind of shite the industry is coughing out these days. A great deal of it I would describe as insultingly bad.


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    #173
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    MooseJam wrote: »
    how can you feel bad about a free lunch, you pay 50 odd quid for a restricted version, I get it for free and generally in a better condition and I'm supposed to feel bad. You're perfectly entitled to feel it's wrong to pirate but that doesn't make it so, and it doesn't give you the right to look at pirates as scum, seriously which is worse downloading a game or viewing a large percentage of the population as scum, you are in the minority.

    Nope, it pretty much does.
    The irony being you're still whinging about restrictions and yet you see no correlation between your illegal downloading and the rise in DRM.

    Simply stunning.


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    #174
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    Zillah wrote: »
    There is no way in hell I am paying 50+ euro up front for the kind of shite the industry is coughing out these days. A great deal of it I would describe as insultingly bad.

    That's a terrible excuse for piracy and you know it. Nobody is forcing you to buy the games, and there isn't exactly a shortage on information, reviews, discussions and often demos for you to make a reasonably informed decision before you buy something. That excuse is childish beyond measure.


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    #175
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Nope, it pretty much does.
    The irony being you're still whinging about restrictions and yet you see no correlation between your illegal downloading and the rise in DRM.

    Simply stunning.

    no the irony is the publishers see no correlation between their increasingly restrictive drm and the growth in downloads !


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    #176
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    MooseJam wrote: »
    no the irony is the publishers see no correlation between their increasingly restrictive drm and the growth in downloads !

    You think publishers like having to spend the money on having more and more advanced DRM built into their products? I mean seeing as you have them painted as lumbering wallets from whom it's ok to steal, surely then they'd want more money, not less. Y'know, what with them being all corporation-y

    DRM software ain't cheap, but it's nessicary now.
    Well done.


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    #177
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Games like other things such as films, photos, music, art, poems, articles, books, blog posts, posters, websites, programs, building designs, product designs etc etc are at least a kind of "intellectual property". Such is automatically covered by copyright (without any legal or copyright notice, registering etc).

    Is unauthorised use of a game theft? Well, it's not very simple. It's not old or the legal meaning of actual 'theft'. But, in a time when whole industries are based around "intellectual property", you would be following the 'spirit' of the meaning. But simple theft is clear, you're taking something physical which has real value. You have to prove value of intellectual property.

    In theory, (I'm not a lawyer and please don't take this as any type of advice...) what about if you can't afford a game and (unlikely or not) will never in your life be able to do so and you are taking a electronic downloaded game from a download source which allows you to take it?

    Then the copyright holder has no real moral or legal claim, they are not losing anything -- not potential revenue which could have been made yesterday, not current revenue, not potential revenue. The user in this example (however unlikly or not) can't afford your game so you are losing nothing. Keep "can't afford" and drop "will never in your life be able to", the copyright holder's case is now only weak (compared to having no case whatsoever).

    Is unauthorised use of a game piracy? Not in a million years. Piracy is distribution (selling or making available) of the product. It's not use.


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    #178
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Also, contact EA, they can free up your registrations for you so you don't have to be a filthy pirate.
    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    What? That's the stupidest thing i've ever seen

    MOD HAT ON:
    1. Please do not accuse somebody of piracy or any breach of the law (you should note that piracy of software is a crime which is far greater than use of such software, and, in any case, the user you accused says s/he paid the game).
    2. Also "That's the stupidest thing i've ever seen" is just another way of calling somebody stupid which you would get banned for.

    Since you're getting a warning if I see doing any of the above or breaking the charter is way like the above you will be banned for two weeks.

    NOW:     EVERYBODY BACK ON TOPIC, UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE BANNED FOR A FEW DAYS DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST!


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    #179
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    You think publishers like having to spend the money on having more and more advanced DRM built into their products? I mean seeing as you have them painted as lumbering wallets from whom it's ok to steal, surely then they'd want more money, not less. Y'know, what with them being all corporation-y

    DRM software ain't cheap, but it's nessicary now.
    Well done.

    DRM is the baby throwing the toys out of the pram, wah wah they're downloading our stuff we have to do something, do they care that it has ZERO effect no, there's just some suit somewhere who can point to it when another suit complains about piracy, it does NOTHING to stop it , sweet fa, they are retards for using it, they are just driving more customers away


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    #180
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    monument wrote: »

    Is unauthorised use of a game piracy? Not in a million years. Piracy is distribution (selling or making available) of the product. It's not use.

    Nope, 'unauthorised use' most definitely is piracy.

    There are some bizarre opinions in this thread, but I have to say I agree pretty much with the viewpoint of thelordofcheese on this one. All the excuses in the world don't make piracy morally right, and it seems that a few people in this thread are armed only with excuses.


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    #181
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    lenny_leonard wrote: »
    Nope, 'unauthorised use' most definitely is piracy.

    Just to make it clear: The piracy of goods has a legal meaning and it will not be tolerated on this board that end users are accused of piracy.

    I know there has been a lot of changes in the Irish copyright law in recent years so if you can point out the changes which has massivly changed the meaning of the word then I'll look at changing the above. A link to an Irish newspaper article, or the law its self should do -- PM me if you have one or the other.
    lenny_leonard wrote: »
    There are some bizarre opinions in this thread, but I have to say I agree pretty much with the viewpoint of thelordofcheese on this one. All the excuses in the world don't make piracy morally right, and it seems that a few people in this thread are armed only with excuses.

    If you would like to agree with other posters, fine. Or even disagrees with other posters and address points they have made, fine. However, slinging muck isn't really allowed here.


This discussion has been closed.
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