Lazy song 'writing'

corblimey

This is becoming a pet peeve of mine. It comes in 2 forms:

1. Rhyming a word with itself
2. Rhyming a word with a different, non rhyming word (including putting on a weird pronunciation to make it work)

The 2 more egregious examples I have from recent pop atrocities are Beyonce:

You must not know 'bout me
You must not know 'bout me
I can have another you in a minute
Matter fact, he'll be here in a minute

And Kid Rock manages to hit both things in 1 chorus!:

And we were trying different things
We were smoking funny things
...
Sipping whiskey out the bottle, not thinking 'bout tomorrow

Does this annoy anyone else, or am I just getting cranky?

GhostInTheRuins

Well in fairness, I don't think Beyoncé and Kid Rock would be considered masterful song writers.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

I don't know, as long as it's tasteful (excludes Kid Rock) it's ok.

There are equally objections to be had if artists start rhyming cat with hat and bat (the Dr. Zeuss school of poetry).

It can sound naff either way depending on the lyrics and song, but when well executed, you can get away with a lot.

Shryke

I pick up on these things too OP and I've decided that it's not neccesarily bad writing. It all depends on the actual lyrics in question, the quality of the music and the artist. Even things like the voice you hear singing will influence whether you think they can pull this stuff off or not.
The examples you gave I'm not familiar with happily. I hate Kid Rock for butchering Skynyrd. Call it a homage if you like. I call it butchering.

Nightwish

I find crap like this to be completely lazy songwriting

Example 1
I ain't freakin'
I ain't feelin' this
I ain't freakin'
I ain't feelin' this
I ain't freakin'
I ain't feelin' this
Shut up and let me go

Example 2
Trust me, trust me
I'm a doctor (repeated ad nauseaum)

Example 3
I love it when you call
I love it when you call
I love it when you call
But you never call at all


All display a level of songwriting that can only be described as juvenile. And then of course, when people go buy this type of ráiméis, it makes baby jesus cry as it justifies lazy songwriting.

DenMan

Unfortunately some of the best songwriters actually never performed. They were professionals who happened to be great writers and poets and could play out a story in their head and allow the performers to sing their work. Right now in the pop industry the singers themselves are writing their own material. Girls like Britney Spears and Hillary Duff (I know I hate them too!!!) are writing or at least contributing to their own material. Shut Up And Let Me Go is a prime example and you used it. Would you see some of the worlds best songwriters writing that rubbish? Of course not. It also appeals to a certain age group and mentality which again just irritates me but unfortunatley I can't do anything about it. The solution is just don't support them. Eventually they will end up being replaced anyway with a new act, and the cycle will continue again and again.......

Robbo

Sean_K wrote: »

I don't know, as long as it's tasteful (excludes Kid Rock) it's ok.

There are equally objections to be had if arts start rhyming cat with hat and bat (the Dr. Zeuss school of poetry).

It can sound naff either way depending on the lyrics and song, but when well executed, you can get away with a lot.

The diminishing returns on latter day Oasis albums show that you can only do it for so long though.

stovelid

Robbo wrote: »

The diminishing returns on latter day Oasis albums show that you can only do it for so long though.

Slowly walking down the hall/Faster than a cannon ball was always a particular favourite of mine. The guys just didn't get the recognition they deserved.

gustavo

For a lot of pop music I couldnt care less about the lyrics , its all about the melody and as long as it sounsd good I'm happy , I do like a good lyric especially the likes of Morrissey some of his were priceless , But they would have meant nothing if the tunes he was writing the lyrics to were rubbish , Luckily they werent

Blisterman

corblimey wrote: »

This is becoming a pet peeve of mine. It comes in 2 forms:

1. Rhyming a word with itself
2. Rhyming a word with a different, non rhyming word (including putting on a weird pronunciation to make it work)

The 2 more egregious examples I have from recent pop atrocities are Beyonce:

And Kid Rock manages to hit both things in 1 chorus!:Does this annoy anyone else, or am I just getting cranky?

So basically, the definition of a good songwriter by your standards, is one who is good at rhyming?

Nailz

stovelid wrote: »

Slowly walking down the hall/Faster than a cannon ball was always a particular favourite of mine. The guys just didn't get the recognition they deserved.

Ah now I don't know, they mighten't have got the recognition back when the first 2 album were releast, but now I just think they are over rated and somewhat repetetive. I like most of their work, don't get me wrong, but they just seem to be repeating themselves musically, and in the way they critisize other bands, almost as if they think they can do what to because they see themselves as icons.

That's why I like Shaun Ryder, lyrically genuine and original, but at the end of the day, he doesn't give a shìt if people like him or not, and couldn't give a toss about other bands, minding his own business.

KnifeWRENCH

DenMan wrote: »

Shut Up And Let Me Go is a prime example and you used it. Would you see some of the worlds best songwriters writing that rubbish? Of course not. It also appeals to a certain age group and mentality which again just irritates me but unfortunatley I can't do anything about it. The solution is just don't support them. Eventually they will end up being replaced anyway with a new act, and the cycle will continue again and again.......

:rolleyes: Lol at the sweeping generalisation. Care to tell us all which age group and mentality you refer to? I'm a Ting Ting's fan and somehow I suspect I may not fit into whatever you define as "certain mentality"

"Shut Up And Let Me Go" is what it is - a good, solid, functionable indie-pop song. It's not lyrically inspiring, nor is it meant to be.
Many would agree that Nick Cave and Lou Reed are great lyricists, but if I want something jubilant I can sing along to I'm hardly going to stick on Murder Ballads or Berlin now am I?

I'm not a fan of Beyonce or Kid Rock, but I wouldn't slate them for doing what they do.
As for your point about songwriting, I would have more respect for Britney Spears and Hilary Duff for writing some of their own stuff rather than relying on a team of songwriters to pull them through.

DenMan

square_igloo wrote: »

"Shut Up And Let Me Go" is what it is - a good, solid, functionable indie-pop song. It's not lyrically inspiring, nor is it meant to be.
Many would agree that Nick Cave and Lou Reed are great lyricists, but if I want something jubilant I can sing along to I'm hardly going to stick on Murder Ballads or Berlin now am I?

I'm not a fan of Beyonce or Kid Rock, but I wouldn't slate them for doing what they do.
As for your point about songwriting, I would have more respect for Britney Spears and Hilary Duff for writing some of their own stuff rather than relying on a team of songwriters to pull them through.

Hi square_igloo

The thread is about a lazy approach to song writing and The Ting Tings were used as an example. Now the OP didn't give us a reference point in order to compare and contrast different styles with, just their own opinion, and Beyonce and Kid Rock were used, so who are we comparing them to? This was what the OP wanted to get across, in their own words:

1. Rhyming a word with itself
2. Rhyming a word with a different, non rhyming word (including putting on a weird pronunciation to make it work)

I didn't bring up The Ting Tings originally, just responded to it and used it as an example. Of course it is not meant to be lyrically inspiring, I never said that. It is produced for mass radio airplay and clocks in at under 3 mins. It is also played in a lot of clubs as it appeals to indie and pop fans alike. Now if you produce a 3 minute song for radio and television airplay the words and indeed the chorus are going to rhyme. It generates interest in the listener and it plays out like a short story. When you listen to it what do you go for in the song? Do you take in the lyrics or do you enjoy the beat of the song? Being a fan of metal music it is the story and the words which captivate me and holds my interest. I would be classified as a minority fan in Ireland. The story is everything and that is why it carries so well (and indeed is quite long) Indie and pop fans wouldn't have the patience to listen to something for that long (I hope I am wrong)

No hard feelings square_igloo but I think you may have taken my response up wrongly. From a sales point of view it would be young teens to people in their mid twenties who would support them and go and see them live. Many people can like their music when they listen to it because it can be short and catchy, but in order for them to survive and grow as a band they need their fanbase to support them, like any band does. They played to a sold out show at Oxygen this year. It wasn't an attack on the band themselves or a diss at their fanbase, just an personal opinion as I prefer metal to pop/indie. They are two completely different genres and the writing styles are vastly different. In the pop/indie world would their fanbase listen to a song that may be 10-20 minutes long? Possibly, but highly unlikely. Not a sweeping generalisation just an opinion and you and I have that right to express that. Peace.

Den

stovelid

Nailz wrote: »

Ah now I don't know, they mighten't have got the recognition back when the first 2 album were releast, but now I just think they are over rated and somewhat repetetive. I like most of their work, don't get me wrong, but they just seem to be repeating themselves musically, and in the way they critisize other bands, almost as if they think they can do what to because they see themselves as icons.
.

I was being sarcastic, dude. Think I need to brush up on my skills.

richie_os

hmmm

Insect Overlord

richie_os wrote: »

hmmm

Now this guy has really grasped the concept of this thread! This post epitomises the art of lazy posting. Note how he doesn't even need to use a recognisable word to put his point across. It's the boards equivalent of that shyte Chris Brown song, "No Air".

richie_os

An Fhile wrote: »

Now this guy has really grasped the concept of this thread! This post epitomises the art of lazy posting. Note how he doesn't even need to use a recognisable word to put his point across. It's the boards equivalent of that shyte Chris Brown song, "No Air".

its a gift

corblimey

Blisterman wrote: »

So basically, the definition of a good songwriter by your standards, is one who is good at rhyming?

Yes, that's exactly right. All songs should rhyme. Also, all poems, rap songs, football commentaries, funeral eulogies, and everything everybody says ever.

Nice summary of my post there, Blisterman.

humberklog

Big difference beween the Beyonce and Kid rock songs though. Beyonce's levity. The lyrics are not even secondary to it's purpose. However kid rock is trying to tell us something. How brilliat he is and how jealous we should be of him. Agree with op on Kidrock but not Beyonce.
Lyrics Schmirics I say. The real lazy bone of a lot of songwriters (that want you to notice their lyrics) lies much more rooted in the songs intention. A girl, I miss her, Oooh I must mention eyes, a girl, she pissed in my bed and left without saying goodbye, I miss her, she treated me cruel. Now all I have is my manky duve to hold and sniff whilst I dream of her and tell you all about it.
The lazyness is in the road they try take us down. Those that want to tell us something instead of letting us enjoy the sound and make our own road. The hand holders disease.
I wanna go BMXing on the quarter pipe with the ting-tings not eat fallafel with Chris while he shows me pictures of apple and gwenith.

Nailz

stovelid wrote: »

I was being sarcastic, dude. Think I need to brush up on my skills.

Aw sorry, pal. Sarcasim doesn't transmit well in writing...

KrazeeEyezKilla

I doubt if anyone who listens to the Ting Tings does so because of their amazing lyrics. The guitar part at the beginning and after each chorus is the main part of the song. It's hardly a great piece of playing but its just about good enough to make it a decent song. Having heard their album last week there are a couple of weak songs on it but its not anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be.

The laziest way to write a song is to focus on what demographic will buy it and what gimmic to use and pay little attention to any actual tune. The worst song for that is the Katy Perrys song but the new Sugababes song is almost as bad. I can see the light bulb going off over the head of someone in their record company when they realised that sampling that annoying song from an ad on TV would have most of the promotion work already done.

Nailz

Oh yes, how could we forget our friends Scouting For Girls, that lad must have a capacity of 20 words or something, I could get a 3 year old to write better lyrics!

KrazeeEyezKilla

Class band name though. Nothing makes me want to listen to a band like the reminder of paedophilia.

Nailz

The name can be suceeded by it's Irish cover band... Out On The Pull!

Insect Overlord

corblimey wrote: »

This is becoming a pet peeve of mine. It comes in 2 forms:

1. Rhyming a word with itself
2. Rhyming a word with a different, non rhyming word (including putting on a weird pronunciation to make it work)

The 2 more egregious examples I have from recent pop atrocities are Beyonce:

And Kid Rock manages to hit both things in 1 chorus!:Does this annoy anyone else, or am I just getting cranky?

Especially true of Kanye West's Stronger. The song annoys me for many reasons, but it's hailed by many as the greatest song of the year. :mad:

Blisterman

Well, sometimes the Rhyming a word with itself, is used to emphasise a point, or as part of wordplay.

I like this line, from Jay-Z. Forgot which song.

"I'm not a businessman, I'm a business, man."

All he does is put a tiny pause, and changes the meaning of the line.

RossFixxxed

Now this looks like a job for ME
So everybody just follow ME
Cos we need a little controversy,
It'd be so empty without ME

3 times!!! That always drove me mad. Always though Eimenememenemenemen was overrated tbh.

Nailz

Well, it's a shame to say it, but for every song with good lyrics, there's 5 songs without....

Blisterman

RossFixxxed wrote: »

Now this looks like a job for ME
So everybody just follow ME
Cos we need a little controversy,
It'd be so empty without ME

3 times!!! That always drove me mad. Always though Eimenememenemenemen was overrated tbh.

Don't see anything wrong with that. He's actually matching "Job for me" with "follow me" which match vowel sounds and number of syllables. Not strictly a rhyme, more assonance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assonance

Which is actually a lot more difficult than merely rhyming. If he just wanted to rhyme, he could have put any sentence ending in sea, bee, key, fee, tree etc.

humberklog

Blisterman wrote: »

Don't see anything wrong with that. He's actually matching "Job for me" with "follow me" which match vowel sounds and number of syllables. Not strictly a rhyme, more assonance.

100% Blister. I'd seriously rate m+m's lyrical ability. Not everyone may agree but not everyone has too. But one thing is for sure...it ain't LAZY.
A lot of people have gone down the road of pointing out lyrics they don't like or don't rate from a genre they don't like nor rate.
But the OP is regarding a lazy attitude to songwriting. Being bad is very, very different than being lazy and the OP is talking about lazy. LAZY not BAD.