How tolerant are you of average service?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

I am saying that there is a choice here- all I am saying is to target resourses towards the sober people. You seem to have a big problem with discriminating towards the real sick.

drunks and junkies make a lifestyle choice and the rest of us suffer thru crime traffic accidents and a whole lot of infringements on our rights because of the health resources medical and police resources set aside for them

cut those resources and they will be too bombed out to notice


what i am saying is that loads of people perform a service as part of their community and teachers do the same- why should they be paid for being members of a community and others dont.My daughter is in a GAA club - no teachers needed to run that.

this is voluntary work and i can think of a whole lot of reasons why this "imaginary" work should not be paid for.

So, does your daughter go to school? If so, why are you putting the education wellbeing of your child (whom I preume you care the world about) in the hands of someone you think provides crappy service and should undertake a pay cut?

CDfm wrote: »

its all relative - another bleeding heart liberal.

You guys dont help all you want to do is perpetuate the problem.

Hah! This from the guy suggesting that hospitas ignore them!

junkies are the most self serving group of whingers and spongers that ever lived- i cant believe that you buy into all this

why should we all pay because of "family issues" that they have and they accept as their social norm.

Ahhh, so this is all bout money? You want it, but you don't see why you have to pay for it? I believe it's called democracy. (They did try your plan here in Germany a few decades ago. Didn't work out.)

CDfm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

So, does your daughter go to school? If so, why are you putting the education wellbeing of your child (whom I preume you care the world about) in the hands of someone you think provides crappy service and should undertake a pay cut?




Hah! This from the guy suggesting that hospitas ignore them!





Ahhh, so this is all bout money? You want it, but you don't see why you have to pay for it? I believe it's called democracy. (They did try your plan here in Germany a few decades ago. Didn't work out.)

Yep but I am not one of those people who believe the teachers actually provide all these services. Most of them rush home to make 30 yoyos an hour tax free giving grinds



I am not saying anything like that - what I am saying is why should drunks and junkies get priority the should go to the end of the cue. I dont drink or take drugs so my tax money supports them. Children and OAPS first -junkies and drunks back of the queue.

Tax budgets are finite. Take their kids away. I dont see why wee should make it easier for them to live their lives that way and pay more taxes for the privelage.

I just dont understand why you find it hard to grasp that I think social services enable these people.

It has nothing to do with democracy - what you are saying is not democracy - it a bunch of people living in a state of anarchy and its the responsibility of the majority to say clean up your act your behaviour is not acceptable to us no more.

tvnutz

CDfm wrote: »

why should we all pay because of "family issues" that they have and they accept as their social norm.

If a junkie or drunk mamma has a child you offer them a choice continue with the lifestyle or your child goes up for adoption. There are loads of couples looking for kids to adopt.
.

are you serious? it has nothing to do with "family issues". You cannot help the social situation you are born into,the parents were probably born into the same situation. They never had a choice,and when you have nothing you don't have much to offer your children.

I'm no fan of junkies,I think those that try to get clean,try to change their life should be helped and should be treated. There might actually be some of your points I agree with if they weren't based on your single generalised principle that every junkie is a person who had no will power to say no and therefore should be left to rot. Depending on ones social surroundings,the reasons for drug addiction can vary and sometimes choices aren't there.

Just as an extra note I think this thread may slightly have gone off-topic for the consumer issues forum!

CDfm

tv nutz - consumer issues we are the states customers and they chip away half our earnings

so i think we should be careful about how our governments spend our pennies

we shouldnt be so willing to give money away from our pay cheques

we should be customers in A & E - if we went to McDonalds and had drunks falling around they would be thrown out - at a garda station they get put in the cells. So what am i saying thats so wrong

if we want a culture of good service we should apply it to all aspects of irish life and not just cherrypick commercial areas

evil-monkey

how tolerant am i of average service?? not very.

tvnutz

CDfm wrote: »

tv nutz - consumer issues we are the states customers and they chip away half our earnings

Even if you want to look at it like that,somehow I don't think this forum is actually for debates of "the people vs the state"!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

Yep but I am not one of those people who believe the teachers actually provide all these services. Most of them rush home to make 30 yoyos an hour tax free giving grinds



I am not saying anything like that - what I am saying is why should drunks and junkies get priority the should go to the end of the cue. I dont drink or take drugs so my tax money supports them. Children and OAPS first -junkies and drunks back of the queue.

Tax budgets are finite. Take their kids away. I dont see why wee should make it easier for them to live their lives that way and pay more taxes for the privelage.

I just dont understand why you find it hard to grasp that I think social services enable these people.

It has nothing to do with democracy - what you are saying is not democracy - it a bunch of people living in a state of anarchy and its the responsibility of the majority to say clean up your act your behaviour is not acceptable to us no more.

Re teachers: I want four answers from you: 1) How does what teachers do on their own time constitute bad service? 2) Why are you entrusting them with yoru daughter's well being (AGAIN) 3) Where's your proof that 'most of them rush home to give grinds? (You said you didn't want them doing community work, and they're apparently not) 4) How much do you think a teacher should be paid per year?

Re hospitals: To a certain extent I'm with you about drunks and junkies being lower priority, but if nurses are willing to put up with it, how does this constitute bad service?

And it has everything to do with democracy. "We are the state's customers" - remember? We voted the govt. in. This is where your problem lies, not with the hospitals and schools.

CDfm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Re teachers: I want four answers from you: 1) How does what teachers do on their own time constitute bad service? 2) Why are you entrusting them with yoru daughter's well being (AGAIN) 3) Where's your proof that 'most of them rush home to give grinds? (You said you didn't want them doing community work, and they're apparently not) 4) How much do you think a teacher should be paid per year?

Re hospitals: To a certain extent I'm with you about drunks and junkies being lower priority, but if nurses are willing to put up with it, how does this constitute bad service?

And it has everything to do with democracy. "We are the state's customers" - remember? We voted the govt. in. This is where your problem lies, not with the hospitals and schools.

i think teachers should be paid around twice a mcdonalds worker and get twice the holidays.

My daughter rushes from schoool to meet her dear old dad.

Everyone does community service only teachers justify theirs and loads of them do grinds as an excuse for their laziness. .

Everytime you see an A & E its full of drunks and junkies - I dont want them near me -ya might catch something from them. You wont convince me they should get anything. Id turn of all state benefits just like that.Nurses want sympathy and encourage it. Let them take care of them in their own time if they are soo compassionate.

Thoie

CDfm wrote: »

Everytime you see an A & E its full of drunks and junkies

Why do you keep going to A&E after midnight then? And what terrible accidents and emergencies befall you and your family that your GP can't deal with?

Last time I had an accident I broke my ankle at 11pm on a Friday night. I had the choice of going to A&E and spending the night sitting on an uncomfortable chair, with no way to prop the leg up, or going to bed with the leg elevated with a cold compress then getting a lift from a friend in the morning. I chose the second option, and was in and out in about an hour.

If you have something life threatening, you will be seen immediately, or as soon as humanly possible if they have to get a specialist out of bed and in to the hospital. No matter how discomfiting it is, a simple broken ankle with no complications is not an emergency.

jahalpin

CDfm wrote: »

I dont think country people are well served by A & E - if all thats using them is drunks and junkies.

Its up to people to say why subsidize a Dublin junky drunk culture.

Thats bad service for everywhere else.

Give them medical bunkers patch them up if you want.

No one forces junkies to take drugs - its not the governments fault. No one forces a junkie to take drugs.

Addiction centres my ass - give them the equivalent of antabuze which makes them relly sick if they drink or drug.

Then leave them off. They have it too easy.

The nurses are just enablers stopping them from kicking drugs. I am all for toughlove.

Why do country people always complain that they are not treated as well as people in Dublin?

Almost half the population of the country live in the Dublin area and they pay the majority of tax. Country people do not subsidise Dublin people, it is the other way around.

People who choose to live in sparsely populated rural areas are being subsidised by the tax paid by Dublin people.

It's not only in the public sector where the country people are subsidised, it also happens in the private sector eg shops generally charge the same prices throughout the country even though it is more expensive to service shops in rural areas than shops in densely populated cities, therefore, people in Dublin end up subsidising the country people AGAIN.....

CDfm

jahalpin wrote: »

Why do country people always complain that they are not treated as well as people in Dublin?

Almost half the population of the country live in the Dublin area and they pay the majority of tax. Country people do not subsidise Dublin people, it is the other way around.

People who choose to live in sparsely populated rural areas are being subsidised by the tax paid by Dublin people.

It's not only in the public sector where the country people are subsidised, it also happens in the private sector eg shops generally charge the same prices throughout the country even though it is more expensive to service shops in rural areas than shops in densely populated cities, therefore, people in Dublin end up subsidising the country people AGAIN.....

i am all for decentralising the civil serevice to the country - everyone complains that its a big huge monolith based on practices that are pre-war of independence.

i dont know - but i imagine any of the govt depatments would easily be the biggest emoployer in dublin- I say decentralisation but what i mean is modernisation. inm other words if the civil service was a private co it would be broken up.

without this inefficient public services delivery system dublin would be a ghost town so its debateable who is subsidising whom.

Nice to see a bit of tribalism

CDfm

Thoie wrote: »

Why do you keep going to A&E after midnight then? And what terrible accidents and emergencies befall you and your family that your GP can't deal with?

Last time I had an accident I broke my ankle at 11pm on a Friday night. I had the choice of going to A&E and spending the night sitting on an uncomfortable chair, with no way to prop the leg up, or going to bed with the leg elevated with a cold compress then getting a lift from a friend in the morning. I chose the second option, and was in and out in about an hour.

If you have something life threatening, you will be seen immediately, or as soon as humanly possible if they have to get a specialist out of bed and in to the hospital. No matter how discomfiting it is, a simple broken ankle with no complications is not an emergency.

Aha- you were drunk and wel anaesthesised perchance?

I brought someone to A & E who had a turn - an elderly gent who is a family friend and who had had a mild stroke. Luckily I had arranged to meet him somewhere anyway.

Got him to the Mater and if I hadnt been able to get hold of his GP he would have had a hard time been seen to. The GP told the staff down the phone to admit the guy immediately after giving a phone diagnosis.

IF i Hadnt seen at first hand the number of drunks etc arriving in casualty with medical cards passing out with ahem lifestyle injuries cloging up the placeI wouldnt have believed it. So what if I propose a two-tier A & E etc - ita about time these people stopped being treated with kid gloves.

MOH

CDfm wrote: »

Aha- you were drunk and wel anaesthesised perchance?

I brought someone to A & E who had a turn - an elderly gent who is a family friend and who had had a mild stroke. Luckily I had arranged to meet him somewhere anyway.

Got him to the Mater and if I hadnt been able to get hold of his GP he would have had a hard time been seen to. The GP told the staff down the phone to admit the guy immediately after giving a phone diagnosis.

IF i Hadnt seen at first hand the number of drunks etc arriving in casualty with medical cards passing out with ahem lifestyle injuries cloging up the placeI wouldnt have believed it. So what if I propose a two-tier A & E etc - ita about time these people stopped being treated with kid gloves.

So you're basing all your A&E rants on one visit to the Mater?

And given it was the Mater, does your family friend live in Dublin? Lucky for him then nobody's followed your advice to slash all services in Dublin.

You don't seem to have though this out very well.

CDfm

MOH wrote: »

So you're basing all your A&E rants on one visit to the Mater?

And given it was the Mater, does your family friend live in Dublin? Lucky for him then nobody's followed your advice to slash all services in Dublin.

You don't seem to have though this out very well.

Ya services in Dublin would be a lot better without the junkies or drunks to wade thru.

It amazes me that people accept that they need to get inline behind these people and accept poor seervice because of it?

Dont you see anything wrong with that?

CDfm

MOH wrote: »

So you're basing all your A&E rants on one visit to the Mater?

And given it was the Mater, does your family friend live in Dublin? Lucky for him then nobody's followed your advice to slash all services in Dublin.

You don't seem to have though this out very well.

Ya services in Dublin would be a lot better without the junkies or drunks to wade thru.

It amazes me that people (in Dublin) accept that they need to get inline behind these people and accept poor seervice because of it?

Dont you see anything wrong with that?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

i think teachers should be paid around twice a mcdonalds worker and get twice the holidays.

My daughter rushes from schoool to meet her dear old dad.

Everyone does community service only teachers justify theirs and loads of them do grinds as an excuse for their laziness. .

Everytime you see an A & E its full of drunks and junkies - I dont want them near me -ya might catch something from them. You wont convince me they should get anything. Id turn of all state benefits just like that.Nurses want sympathy and encourage it. Let them take care of them in their own time if they are soo compassionate.

I believe you answer one out of the four questions I posed...? And while you're at it:

5) Do YOU do commuity service?
6) Is it one of the sh1t servies you keep monaing about?

CDfm

If you are not a public servant you are closely related to one a teacher or nurse.

I said it before what teachers do in their own time is up to themselves. They dont get pay cuts if they dont do community work and many get invoved in activities in the community- buts it is for personal reasons. They dont get their pay docked if they dont do it.If they do school plays its because its part of their job. They are not being altruistic.Other people from all walks of life including women who arrange flowers in churches and do the choir provide service amd dont get paid.

AS for entrusting my kids to teachers.Well under the Irish constitution the family/parents are the primary educators of their children not the schools. That loads of people think the schools are the primary educators is a misconception and you delegate authority but not responsibility to the schools.

I think schools actually overstep the mark and disagree with their involvement in areas of sex education etc which they teach abysmally.They encroach on the parents roles and should be put back in their box.

I also disagree with school uniforms - I think they are awful rags.

I am active in my community and do know recovering addicts- but that does not mean I would be soft on them. While I support recovery we are too soft on addicts.

This thread is about service- the health service and especially A & E would improve by being tough on junkies and drunks.I wouldnt have them near A & E with normal people you could have some concrete medical bunkers for junkies and deadbeats patch them up and send them packing.

Jaysus- from your posts - Im begining to think nurses enjoy getting slapped around in A & E and thats what they go to work for.

AARRRGH

Thoie wrote: »

You have failed to address my earlier point with proven statistics about the services available across the country... I'll let you find those stats yourself, they're quite available... I'd also appreciate if you can provide a source quote (a medical journal will do) for the statement "nurses love treating junkies".

You've already lost the debate when you start asking for statistics and sources from medical journals.

This is boards.ie.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

If you are not a public servant you are closely related to one a teacher or nurse.

I said it before what teachers do in their own time is up to themselves. They dont get pay cuts if they dont do community work and many get invoved in activities in the community- buts it is for personal reasons. They dont get their pay docked if they dont do it.If they do school plays its because its part of their job. They are not being altruistic.Other people from all walks of life including women who arrange flowers in churches and do the choir provide service amd dont get paid.

So what's the problem...? Really? I mean complete this sentence:
I, CDfm, think teachers give bad service because....

As for entrusting my kids to teachers.Well under the Irish constitution the family/parents are the primary educators of their children not the schools. That loads of people think the schools are the primary educators is a misconception and you delegate authority but not responsibility to the schools.

Start a new thread if you want to go that far off topic.

I think schools actually overstep the mark and disagree with their involvement in areas of sex education etc which they teach abysmally.They encroach on the parents roles and should be put back in their box. [\QUOTE]

What's so 'abysmal' about it? If you're going to make sweeping statements like that, you need to back it up.

I also disagree with school uniforms - I think they are awful rags.

Again, new thread. Teachers don't do uniforms.

I am active in my community and do know recovering addicts- but that does not mean I would be soft on them. While I support recovery we are too soft on addicts.

Again, new thread. Your opinoins on recovering addicts is nothing to do with service/bad service.

This thread is about service- the health service and especially A & E would improve by being tough on junkies and drunks.I wouldnt have them near A & E with normal people you could have some concrete medical bunkers for junkies and deadbeats patch them up and send them packing.

Your initial comment was "nurses - don't make me laugh" and "I blame the nurses, I do". They have no control over who comes into A&E - why are you blaming them?

Jaysus- from your posts - Im begining to think nurses enjoy getting slapped around in A & E and thats what they go to work for.

How would you know? You're never read them!

CDfm

AARRRGH wrote: »

You've already lost the debate when you start asking for statistics and sources from medical journals.

This is boards.ie.

I didnt expect anymore -these kind of people just dont want change even if it improves the health service.

The poor liddle nursies dont want change.They want to patch up drunks and junkies every night cos otherwise people might see beyond the scare tactics about people on trollies.

Thats why we have a first world health service bill with third world country work practices.:mad:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

The poor liddle nursies dont want change.They want to patch up drunks and junkies every night cos otherwise people might see beyond the scare tactics about people on trollies.
:

Bu11sh1t.

CDfm

Ickypoo2 - I answered your questions.

My views differ from yours and when I make a statement of fact about the constitutional status of the family you want to start a new thread.

Read the constitution and see if Im wrong or ask me which article and I will discuss it with you.The family is the primary educator of children under the constitution not the schools. Statement of fact.

When I say that teachers and nurses are paid for what they do well they are -statement of fact.

That both the nurses and teachers organisations are very skilled in the black arts of PR and not afraid to use their muscle for more pay just shows how organised they are. Thats my opinion.

THat nurses are so resistant to change and reorganisation of there work practices by the HSE means they put themselves before of patient care.:mad:

CDfm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Bu11sh1t.

I think Ive hit a nerve- now I know Im right:rolleyes:

taram

CDfm wrote: »

I didnt expect anymore -these kind of people just dont want change even if it improves the health service.

The poor liddle nursies dont want change.They want to patch up drunks and junkies every night cos otherwise people might see beyond the scare tactics about people on trollies.

Thats why we have a first world health service bill with third world country work practices.:mad:

K, teachers control the education system, third, second and primary level. Teachers are heads of schools, teachers are assistants, teachers are well, teachers. For hospitals, nurses are pretty ****ing low down the heirachy, they don't control anything. And only a handful work in A&E. Thinking of my local hospital the rest of the building must easily be 10 times the size of the A&E department.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

Ickypoo2 - I answered your questions.

My views differ from yours and when I make a statement of fact about the constitutional status of the family you want to start a new thread.

Read the constitution and see if Im wrong or ask me which article and I will discuss it with you.The family is the primary educator of children under the constitution not the schools. Statement of fact.

When I say that teachers and nurses are paid for what they do well they are -statement of fact.

That both the nurses and teachers organisations are very skilled in the black arts of PR and not afraid to use their muscle for more pay just shows how organised they are. Thats my opinion.

THat nurses are so resistant to change and reorganisation of there work practices by the HSE means they put themselves before of patient care.:mad:

You did. And I responded to them. If you ACTUALLY READ my post before last, you'll find out WHY I suggested you start a new thread. I'm not typing it again.

Now a question (because you're not that good at making your points clear): Do nurses and teachers offer a good service? In the hospitals and classrooms? Without the politics and unions?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

I think Ive hit a nerve- now I know Im right:rolleyes:

Wha....?!!! You can't defend your own statement - now you know you're bu11sh1t1ng!!

CDfm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Wha....?!!! You can't defend your own statement - now you know you're bu11sh1t1ng!!

They dont.

Anyone defending the schools for the way they teach the Irish language would have no problem with the facts on that one.

Nurses -they dont care- they are in it for the money. Against all health service reform. Legislate to tear up their work contracts ,take away their pensions and bring in nurses from the Philipines and Eastern Europe who know what they are doing.

Irish nurses are the laughing stock of the USA -the general thinking being if they had to deal with a real epidemic like antibiotic resistant TB as opposed to MRSA they would all be dead by now. Thats the general thinking -not nice but true none the less.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

They dont.

Anyone defending the schools for the way they teach the Irish language would have no problem with the facts on that one.

Nurses -they dont care- they are in it for the money. Against all health service reform. Legislate to tear up their work contracts ,take away their pensions and bring in nurses from the Philipines and Eastern Europe who know what they are doing.

Irish nurses are the laughing stock of the USA -the general thinking being if they had to deal with a real epidemic like antibiotic resistant TB as opposed to MRSA they would all be dead by now. Thats the general thinking -not nice but true none the less.

Irish - fair point, I agree - but the teachers' hands are tied on that one.

Nurses - in the list of most lucrative jobs I can think of, nursing isn't one of them. But even if it was: how does this constistute poor service? The vast majority of people who work are in it for the money (and let's face it - unless you're a politician, you're not in public service for the money).

CDfm

The nurses get paid very well when you compare what they do versus the average industrial wage, add in work practices , training and pensions and career options , almost 100% employment and it quite a good little number.

Compare it to any commercial enterprise and its mega.

What I am saying is that the nurses are very resistant to health service change and that affects the quality of service and value for money they give.

Im also saying God by with anyone in public life who criticises the nurses they are so well organised politically that the person would be hung drawn and quartered (metaphorically) by nightfall.

NO public figure would dare take on the nurses or health groups. They are too powerfull in their own right.

Sorry - I forgot the teachers- their hands arent tied they have no interest in changing the Irish stuff- happy with things asthey are.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

The nurses get paid very well when you compare what they do versus the average industrial wage, add in work practices , training and pensions and career options , almost 100% employment and it quite a good little number.

Compare it to any commercial enterprise and its mega.

What I am saying is that the nurses are very resistant to health service change and that affects the quality of service and value for money they give.

Im also saying God by with anyone in public life who criticises the nurses they are so well organised politically that the person would be hung drawn and quartered (metaphorically) by nightfall.

NO public figure would dare take on the nurses or health groups. They are too powerfull in their own right.

Sorry - I forgot the teachers- their hands arent tied they have no interest in changing the Irish stuff- happy with things asthey are.

Where are you getting your informatrion about nurses wages compared to commercial sectors from? Not disagree with you - just want to see them.

People can criticise nurses as much as they like, but they need to be prepared for rebuke if they do, especially from people who have spent time in hospitals as patients. Feedback from them regarding the quality of service FROM THE NURSES ALONE AND NOT THE HSE tends to be excellent.

Say what you like about the unions, it's a seperate issue. You need to remember we're talking about ground-level service here.