Mike Ashley strikes back

Charlie

AARRRGH wrote: »

I agree with you, but this is football, and in particular it's Newcastle United, so the fans will complain but in the end will put up with whoever owns the club.

People are being overly dramatic - everything will settle down in a few weeks.

I don't want to sound like a know it all, but you are off the mark this time. You only need to read the message boards and the fanzines to know that this time we have had enough, and know that we must grasp this opportunity to take action. This mood is exemplified by the fact that for the first time in our history, moves are underway to establish a supporters group.

George Caulkin of the Times writes a good piece today about it

Newcastle United supporters begin rebuilding
An anti-Mike Ashley banner is paraded around the pitch

George Caulkin

At 7.30pm on Tuesday evening, just around the corner from St James’ Park, a small piece of history was made for Newcastle United; the club’s true owners met to discuss its future. Mike Ashley was not present inside the Tyneside Irish Centre, there was no sign of any wealthy Arabs, no investment bankers made themselves known and no managerial candidates were interviewed.

Instead, a few hundred souls turned up their collars to brave the unending drizzle and reclaim their birthright from Ashley, the memory of Freddy Shepherd, too many energy-sapping disappointments to recall and the grotesque national caricatures of Geordie blarney. It is one of the (many) oddities of such a loyally-followed club that Newcastle has not had its own representative supporters’ body, but that is now changing.

Mobilised by Ashley’s mismanagement of Newcastle, the destructive and self-destructive treatment of Kevin Keegan, the appointment and influence of Dennis Wise – and with a back-history compromising years of underachievement, bad decisions and corrosive publicity – the Toon Army is marching. Amid the turmoil of the club, there is both momentum and a glimmer of optimism.

Start-up costs have been funded by fanzines and websites, The Mag, true faith and nufc.com and there is a sense in the city that if supporters cannot organise themselves now, when will they? The protests which accompanied last weekend’s 2-1 defeat to Hull City – proud and furious - proved beyond measure that Newcastle cares, but this latest venture will require time, effort and almost certainly heartache.

Those on stage – including veterans of earlier campaigns, from Save Our Seats to the Magpie Group – and those who spoke from the floor, reminded Ashley that in spite of his recent efforts in the Middle East, he is nothing more than a “caretaker” of the club. That supporting Newcastle is about more than buying pints in nightclubs and wearing a black and white shirt with – bitter irony – ‘King Kev’ plastered on the rear.

There were outbursts of anger – people grasping the opportunity to release frustration – and suggestions good and bad. For the sake of accuracy, there were several expressions of indignation at an article carried by The Times that morning in which Newcastle fans were termed “whining, whingeing, self-pitying, self-indulgent and deluded.” A powerful counter-argument was provided.

There was also a collective agreement that in an era when fans matter less – when ticket sales are made irrelevant by television income and the personal wealth of directors – their voices should be heard more and with greater clarity. These are early days; membership, leadership, and a name must be decided upon, never mind a course of action, but Newcastle’s owners are stirring. The message: they are not selling-up.

eagle eye

AARRRGH wrote: »

Right, I'll try once more:

Everything will go back to normal in a few weeks whether or not Keegan is brought back to the club. People are being totally deluded/stupid if they think otherwise.

Newcastle United is a business, and they couldn't give a **** about the few hundred "hardcore" fans who will refuse to go to anymore Newcastle United games if Keegan isn't brought back.

Mike Ashley has all the power here. The protesting fans are deluded.

You'll try what?
What on earth are you talking about. The club is up for sale now.
The 'Power' of Mike Ashley? Why is he selling then if everything will be back to normal in a few weeks?
Surely a billionaire businessman would know better than to sell the club if what you say is true.

therecklessone

Those on stage – including veterans of earlier campaigns, from Save Our Seats to the Magpie Group – and those who spoke from the floor, reminded Ashley that in spite of his recent efforts in the Middle East, he is nothing more than a “caretaker” of the club. That supporting Newcastle is about more than buying pints in nightclubs and wearing a black and white shirt with – bitter irony – ‘King Kev’ plastered on the rear.

Maybe if that message was passed on at the start then the Barcodes wouldn't be in their current mess?

One hopes that if anything positive comes out of this whole mess it will be that Newcastle fans will become more realistic, and less likely to be distracted by gimmicks.

Charlie

therecklessone wrote: »

Maybe if that message was passed on at the start then the Barcodes wouldn't be in their current mess?

Perhaps more importantly, the fans should have been duly informed before 3 yr seasons tickets were sold that we would be investing £0 in new players, and that our manager would have players sold against his will?

therecklessone wrote: »

One hopes that if anything positive comes out of this whole mess it will be that Newcastle fans will become more realistic

If we're hoping for positives, its that Mike Ashley and his sidekicks are shipped back where they belong, down 'saufth' with the rest of you shysters.

The majority of our fans expectations are well in check, but reading the southern papers, I can't blame you for falling for that old myth. On the topic of expectations though, perhaps Spuds should stop worrying about taking 4th place from Arsenal, and start eying up 17th place for starters.

therecklessone wrote: »

and less likely to be distracted by gimmicks.

Don't worry about our gimmicks mate, just concentrate on your own, chiefly, Juan point Ramos.

That aside, I never got to ask you how Vancouver was?

leninbenjamin

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Perhaps more importantly, the fans should have been duly informed before 3 yr seasons tickets were sold that we would be investing £0 in new players, and that our manager would have players sold against his will?

i can't believe you keep pointing to this. no club chairman worth his salt would do anything that might jeopardise the clubs already weakened financial position, and that's effectively what you are saying he should have done.

Charlie

leninbenjamin wrote: »

i can't believe you keep pointing to this. no club chairman worth his salt would do anything that might jeopardise the clubs already weakened financial position, and that's effectively what you are saying he should have done.

No. Just be more upfront with his 'plan' before he asked people to sign up to the club for 3 yrs. Newcastle fans are probably the best (sometimes for us, worst) fans in terms of always turning up. He would have filled St. James regardless, but probably on 1 yr tickets.

People feel lied and conned, as when they were asked to sign up for the 3 yrs, all the noises coming out of the club was that players would be bought, the squad would be strengthened, 'wait and see, you'll be happy'.

leninbenjamin

charlie mchugh wrote: »

No. Just be more upfront with his 'plan' before he asked people to sign up to the club for 3 yrs. Newcastle fans are probably the best (sometimes for us, worst) fans in terms of always turning up. He would have filled St. James regardless, but probably on 1 yr tickets.

People feel lied and conned, as when they were asked to sign up for the 3 yrs, all the noises coming out of the club was that players would be bought, the squad would be strengthened, 'wait and see, you'll be happy'.

but how would you feel if instead of selling those three year tickets he sold 1 year tickets instead and had a net transfer income of 20million to service the debt?

no business, no matter who established or what kind of relationship it has with it's customers, will disclose to them when it's doing badly. it makes no sense! When are Newcastle fans going to wake up and realise tat they aren't members of some 'exclusive toon club' and are actually customers instead?

you can whinge and moan all you want, but it doesn't fall on your shoulders to pay off Newcastles debt; i dont see ye having to make any tough decisions.

therecklessone

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Perhaps more importantly, the fans should have been duly informed before 3 yr seasons tickets were sold that we would be investing £0 in new players, and that our manager would have players sold against his will?

Charlie my old mucker, how many times do I have to say this?

They lie to you because they know they can get away with it by giving you lot something shiny to distract you. This time they though Keegan would be enough, they just didn't factor in the possibility of him walking.

“Newcastle fans are mugs for paying £30.00 for shirts that cost us £5.00 to make.” - Freddy Shepherd and partner in crime Douglas Hall reveal their true contempt for Newcastle United fans.

“Geordie women are dogs” - Freddy Shepherd and partner in crime Douglas Hall on why they prefer the company of the opposite sex in a Marbella brothel to their ‘own’ womenfolk back home.

Yet you kept filing through the turnstiles and buying the shirts, but at least you had the signings of Owen, martins, and Duff to keep your mind off things.

charlie mchugh wrote: »

If we're hoping for positives, its that Mike Ashley and his sidekicks are shipped back where they belong, down 'saufth' with the rest of you shysters.

The majority of our fans expectations are well in check, but reading the southern papers, I can't blame you for falling for that old myth.

I'm from Dublin mate, though currently about 100 miles north-east of Seattle, so I don't know exactly who your referring to when you talk about "down saufth". Incidentally, unless you're actually from Newcastle then all your talk of the southern media and down saufth borders on embarrassing tbh, be a bit like me calling you a norvern monkey...;)

On the topic of expectations though, perhaps Spuds should stop worrying about taking 4th place from Arsenal, and start eying up 17th place for starters.

If you check back on the thread re. 4th place from earlier this season you'll see I said no team would break the top 4, including my own. But nice to see you've jumped from distraction to deflection...:P

Blackjack

I have a foolproof plan.

All the Newcastle fans club together, and buy the club back.

That way they can spend as much of their own money (at least 20 Million a year, which is only a pittance) on the management and players they want.

Yep, that would work.

therecklessone

leninbenjamin wrote: »

but how would you feel if instead of selling those three year tickets he sold 1 year tickets instead and had a net transfer income of 20million to service the debt?

His point has merit in fairness, asking fans to shell out for three years football is a big ask, and has to be sold on the back of something. I don't recall anyone from Ashley's crews mentioning anything about having to tighten belts and service debt. In customer/service provider terms, haven't Newcastle mis-sold a product to their customers?

Of course, I think a lot of neutrals looking at the situation unfold feel that Keegan would still be there if Milner was not sold, or Schweinsteiger had been bought to replace him, and Toon fans would still be praising "Big Mike" for being one of the lads wearing his shirt and standing among the fans, which kinda calls into question the complaints about 3 year STs and net transfer spends. That said I do recall complaints on certain websites about ST increases at Sid James', so some of the faitful were already questioning the business conduct of Ashley and co.

I do wonder what the plan for financing the club's debt is for next season and the year after when the impact of reduced ST revenue is felt with less yearly STs to be sold? Assuming the Toon don't qualify for Europe, surely they are back in the same situation next season re. cash flow?

Charlie

Lads, I have argued and re-argued my points laboriously over the last week. I guess we have different viewpoints on certain issues, and some (i.e. me) feel it more, due to it being my club. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I will part with this, as a summary for my feelings on Ashley's statement, and Ashley's conduct:

Mr Alan

Charlie, wats your take on the fan ownership thing Newcastle are trying?

Charlie

Mr Alan wrote: »

Charlie, wats your take on the fan ownership thing Newcastle are trying?

This is a funny thing actually because I have been following this for a while. The bloke who is behind this, Peter Lee, posts on the Chronicle forum. About two days after the sh/t hit the fan, he came on saying that something was in the works, which involved getting KK back, and giving the fans a large say in things. He updated hsi posts over the coming week, but most people called him a WUM, and presumed he was bs'ing everyone. I actually took his story at face value, becuase his posts were very articulate, and very detailed. So, as it subsequently turns out, he was telling the truth, and a few people were left smoewhat redfaced.

Anyway, I have my doubts about it. It is a serious amount of capital to raise from just the fans alone. That would be my primary concern about the plan. However, having said that, he has people like Mel Goldberg involved, so there is something I feel that has not been made clear yet, I think their hand is stronger than most are probably giving them credit for.

In therms of the theory behind such a concept, I think it would actually suit Newcastle. For too long, we have been shafted by money men, who have run the club without the fans interest in mind. Some of the points that Peter Lee has outlined are very attractive, i.e. accountability at the top with elections held every couple of years. He proposes that the club would become a non-profit company, and that every pound spent in the club, would therefore be re-invested in the club. There is something very appealing in that, particulalry in the modern era where fans are bleed dry by their clubs.

Like I said, I have my doubts about the capital being raised (but then at the same time, I think they still haven't revealed an ace up their sleeve) but I really admire the guts and effort the bloke has put in. He has come up with an intelligent plan, and gone about the right way in trying to implement it. Dispels the myth that all Toon fans are thick chavs who can't even spell 'boycott' right.

Mr Alan

the boycott thing was funny, you must admit

Liverpool having been attempting something similar for quite a while now, the principles behind it are great.

but i really think it just cant happen now. the time for fans to do this has passed i feel, the amount of money needed to buy the clubs is just too much now. the time to do it would have been a decade ago when the cost would have been a fraction of wat it is now.

i bet you find out the "ace" they are holding is former players supporting it, Shearer etc etc. that was nearly always the big news ShareLiverpool had, people like Barnes/Aldo etc signed up to it and promoted it.

Charlie

Mr Alan wrote: »

the boycott thing was funny, you must admit

Yeah, even I could appreciated the 'boycoutt' gaf, but people presume all to often that the chavy attention whores who bend over for SSN, are representative of all NUFC fans, and that pisses me off greatly. I'm sure its gets on your goat having LFC fans, fans you know are loyal and decent people, being branded bin-dippers, and having Liverpool slums sung to.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Liverpool having been attempting something similar for quite a while now, the principles behind it are great.

Yeah I am awarre of that scheme, and that's what makes me doubt whether the capital could be raised for a Newcastle one. I would consider NUFC fans to be very similar to LFC fans in terms of devotion to their club, and putting their han in their pocket for it. If you lot couldn't get one going, I would have doubts whether we could.

Mr Alan wrote: »

but i really think it just cant happen now. the time for fans to do this has passed i feel, the amount of money needed to buy the clubs is just too much now. the time to do it would have been a decade ago when the cost would have been a fraction of wat it is now.

Agreed. Had NUFC fans managed to get this through at the time Sir John Hall floated the company (the reason why Keegan left in '97) I really think our history over the last decade would have been very very different.

Mr Alan wrote: »

i bet you find out the "ace" they are holding is former players supporting it, Shearer etc etc. that was nearly always the big news ShareLiverpool had, people like Barnes/Aldo etc signed up to it and promoted it.

Probably. However, Mel Goldberg is the man in the UK you go to in relation to sports law. I am sure he costs a pretty penny. I also know that several city strategists are involved. At the time Peter was posting on the forum, he was alluding to the possibility of several businessmen in the UK launching the bid.

On the eve before this went public, he informed people to watch SSN the next morning, as they would be going public. He seemed uneasy about this, but stated that they had to go public now, because Ashley was in Dubai, and they could no longer wait and risk him cutting a deal. He has also stressed that the scheme is not dependent on 300,000 people ponying up, that certain individuals may invest large sums, but re-assured people that those that do that, will not have any control over the club.

Like I said, as a Toon fan, I am well versed to disappointing letdowns, and this will probably be another. However, as of yet, not everything quite adds up.

Mr Alan

i cant see individuals investing sums without wanting more of a say over the running of the club, in which case you are back to square one almost. For it to work i think it has to be a vote per share. one share per person.