Pd's on verge of merge?

Dirk Gently

Not that it hasn't been on the cards for a long time now but is it finally going to happen? They've been pretty successful from their own point of view as regards the direction the country has taken over the past decade. Despite never appealing to the masses they were successful in changing FF, which also contributed to their own fall. That and the fact that they too didn't follow through enough on their own ideology and their existence now as a separate entity to FF is really untenable. I had always thought they might merge into FG though but perhaps their FF roots prevent that on some basic instinctive level. That and FG being more socially conservative might put them off.

What do people think will happen? Will they dissolve back into FF or will they each make individual choices about which party to join? Will the day ever come when FF and FG do us all a favour and merge too.

Firetrap

I don't think the core membership of the PDs would like the party to merge with Fianna Fail. I think it's more likely that the party will either dissolve now or try one last time to win seats at the next local elections. If the party dissolves, I'd say most of the TDs/Senators will continue on for this term anyway as independents. County councillors I could see moving into other political parties.

I can't see Mary Harney rejoining Fianna Fail; she's more likely to continue on as an independent TD who happens to be a government minister. She probably won't compete in the next general election anyway.

mike65

A mix of both I think.

(As for FF/FG merger - one party state.)

A pity about PDs really, the country they were born into was a thorough-going shambles. An economic basket case run by and for the public sector/semi-states (you think things are bad now? its so much better than back then), Garret the Good presiding over fiscal disaster as he expended all his energies pushing trying to push through his social crusade while Charlie the Bad lurked, throwing spanners in the works as and when.

Labour all wore beards and wanted all the then new legal local radio stations to be state owned which tells you enough.

The PDs with thier crazy ideas of deregulation, low taxes and enterprise (even taking of taking God out of the constitution, or was that just a vicious rumour?) were a blast of fresh air expelling much of the stench of 'civil war politics', for a while it worked a treat - the PDs changed the mood. Ray McSharry, Charlie McGreevy and a few others in FF took thier chance and ditched "old" Fianna Fail thinking on the economy, while FG and Labour licked thier wounds in opposition after 1987.

The party ultimately failed as its ficasl/economic clothes were stolen wholesale first by FF and then the rest (even the Shinners are free marketeers now) while its other core ideologies were often poorly presented and not followed through as the business of being in coalition with FF for years (a temporary little arrangment said Albert Reynolds in 1989) took its toll. Des O'Malley also proved a hard act to follow, Harney never seemed to have quite same ability to energise the vote, while McDowell proved too divisive a figure to pull 'em in.

The Progresive Dessiecrats were never going to be much more than a 10% party but they have pulled about 80% of the ideological weight of the last generation.

Mike.

nesf

Irish Times article on the issue: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/0915/1221430221023.html?digest=1

If Grealish leaves, it's hard to see the party surviving intact into the next General Election tbh.

irish_bob

mike65 wrote: »

A mix of both I think.

(As for FF/FG merger - one party state.)

A pity about PDs really, the country they were born into was a thorough-going shambles. An economic basket case run by and for the public sector/semi-states (you think things are bad now? its so much better than back then), Garret the Good presiding over fiscal disaster as he expended all his energies pushing trying to push through his social crusade while Charlie the Bad lurked, throwing spanners in the works as and when.

Labour all wore beards and wanted all the then new legal local radio stations to be state owned which tells you enough.

The PDs with thier crazy ideas of deregulation, low taxes and enterprise (even taking of taking God out of the constitution, or was that just a vicious rumour?) were a blast of fresh air expelling much of the stench of 'civil war politics', for a while it worked a treat - the PDs changed the mood. Ray McSharry, Charlie McGreevy and a few others in FF took thier chance and ditched "old" Fianna Fail thinking on the economy, while FG and Labour licked thier wounds in opposition after 1987.

The party ultimately failed as its ficasl/economic clothes were stolen wholesale first by FF and then the rest (even the Shinners are free marketeers now) while its other core ideologies were often poorly presented and not followed through as the business of being in coalition with FF for years (a temporary little arrangment said Albert Reynolds in 1989) took its toll. Des O'Malley also proved a hard act to follow, Harney never seemed to have quite same ability to energise the vote, while McDowell proved too divisive a figure to pull 'em in.

The Progresive Dessiecrats were never going to be much more than a 10% party but they have pulled about 80% of the ideological weight of the last generation.

Mike.

excellent post mike , it has always been a mystery to me why the pd,s were not at least as big a party as labour , one would think there as a large demographic who wanted to make money without state interfereance , didnt care about the church and also didnt care about collins or dev , of course this is ireland where the vast vast majority of people vote for whichever party there parents , grandparents and great grand parents voted for

the pd,s dont have any tradition and that is why they never made it big as a party

Het-Field

It pleases me to see such a rational discussion about the Progressive Democrats. On Politics.ie the discussion is biased, ignorant, and full of conjecture.

As a very active member of the Progressive Democrats, I am very disapointed at the way the party has gone. It has frozen the rank and file, while decisions have been made from the top down. No matter how active the grass roots are, if the Upper reaches of the party dont want its survival, then there is little we can do. The saddest thing is that there is a vareity of excellent sitting County Cllrs, and potential electees who could have the party base taken away from them. That is wrong.

In terms of the merger, it will only happen if the members say so. In dealing with the YPDs I know that I am one of the few who have any links to FF. Most other YPDs would have their political genesis in Fine Gael. Hence, it is very difficult to say whether the party would choose to merge. Remember, Democratic Left joined the Labour Party after the latter invited the former to do so in 1999. Frankly, I would doubt the Progressive Democrats would want a return to Fianna Fail.

It will all come clear tomorrow night, however, the concensus seems to be that Mr Grealish will change coats. This will leave the party with much to ponder

steveone

how did they change FF?

Dirk Gently

steveone wrote: »

how did they change FF?

It was more a case of FF stealing their clothes and embracing PD policy, something that probably would not have happened had they not left and set up on their own. FF's move towards the PDs and the PDs own holding back meant the two partys are near enough thinking along the same lines today. FF will always be more populist but that aside it's job done as far as the PDs are concerned tbh. Some PD members might disagree but if it's not job done then I would suggest they themselves should have stuck to their guns more in pushing their liberal agenda. I'm sure leaving behind a big public sector will probably annoy them but that's how you stay in power and that's where FF would have been telling them to STFU most.

Putting aside whether you like them or not, politically their existence achieved an awful lot for their own ideology even if it isn't reflected in their own election results. Even SF promote low corporation tax these days, no doubt conceded begrudgingly after the years of success of the policy. Whether what they achieved is sustainable is another story though.