Outsourcing at Aer Lingus

FlutterinBantam

Hmmmmm.... EI thinking of outsourcing Ground Ops and cabin crews.

Would certainly save a lot of money as new work practices and conditions would undoubtedly ride in with that.

Can't figure out if it is a bit of a kite flying exercise or a serious plan???

End of Sep. will reveal a bit more I would expect.

workaccount

What's happening at the end of September?

FlutterinBantam

Aer Lingus expect to roll out their latest cost cutting plan,which may involve outsourcing all ground Operations in Ireland.

Obviously they have learned something from the BFS experience:cool:

*Kol*

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Aer Lingus expect to roll out their latest cost cutting plan,which may involve outsourcing all ground Operations in Ireland.

Obviously they have learned something from the BFS experience:cool:

I thought that outsourcing the ground handling was part of the tender earlier this year when the heavy maintenance was up for grabs? Did that not get awarded yet?

FlutterinBantam

You may be mixing it up with line maintenance and line service.

What I am referring to is the outsourcing of check in/passenger handling/baggage handling/catering/cargo.

As far as I know this has never been really in the mix,and would appear to be a major cost cutting exercise with huge ramifications.

*Kol*

I was thinking of the line maintenance.

mark 2008

I wonder does anyone at Aer Lingus and SIPTU realise the effect all this talk of cost cutting and possible industrial unrest has. As a passenger I'm holding off booking any more flights with them until things are sorted. I know management need to cut costs, but they are actually going to lose potential bookings now. I know the Unions want to defend their members jobs, but if there is any possibility of a strike, the company will lose more bookings and have to make even more cuts. As a passenger I would like to see Dermot Mannion and Jack O'Connor isssue a joint statement saying whatever their differences there will be no strikes, disruptions etc between now and Christmas.

OPENROAD

mark 2008 wrote: »

I wonder does anyone at Aer Lingus and SIPTU realise the effect all this talk of cost cutting and possible industrial unrest has. As a passenger I'm holding off booking any more flights with them until things are sorted. I know management need to cut costs, but they are actually going to lose potential bookings now. I know the Unions want to defend their members jobs, but if there is any possibility of a strike, the company will lose more bookings and have to make even more cuts. As a passenger I would like to see Dermot Mannion and Jack O'Connor isssue a joint statement saying whatever their differences there will be no strikes, disruptions etc between now and Christmas.

Unlikely they will, just book with someone else if you can.

Run_to_da_hills

They will end up just like Hibernian Insurance, all their customer service will come out of India. :eek:

OPENROAD

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They will end up just like Hibernian Insurance, all their customer service will come out of India. :eek:

Quite possibly, but needs must, airlines are under pressure to cut costs so this may well be one of the ways they will reduce costs.

FlutterinBantam

Seems to be a bit of disagreement amongst board members.

Obviously such a drastic move would get the auld war horses clanking the sabres big time and the result could be very attritional indeed.

Interesting times ahead if the figures are anything to go by and the oil price stays over the $100.

New chairman Colm Barrington could be earning his crust fairly sharpish, when he takes over.

Former EI staffer and GPA exec as a matter if interest.

Tenger

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Seems to be a bit of disagreement amongst board members.

.....................New chairman Colm Barrington could be earning his crust fairly sharpish, when he takes over.

Former EI staffer and GPA exec as a matter if interest.

He has a good pedigree coming from GPA. Hope to see some new ideas from him.

I expect an announcement from DM on friday.

FlutterinBantam

Looks like next week will throw up a good few answers to the outsourcing plans.

Meetings Wednesday and Friday mat throw some more light on the situation I'm told.

I'm told Ei Mgmnt not interested in going thru the 18mth meeting fest which followed the last cost cutting exercise.

Interesting times ahead.

Tenger

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Looks like next week will throw up a good few answers to the outsourcing plans.

Meetings Wednesday and Friday mat throw some more light on the situation I'm told.

Interesting times ahead.

Personally I'm just happy that this time they are talking to the staff before the media. This and similar acts over the past 2 years have added to the IR strife at EI.
By talking to the staff rather than dictating, the management team 'should' have an easier time getting cost savings.

However a recent announcment from a female EI rep (can't recall her name)that all operations are "within budget" seems strangely chirpy considering DM warned of possible EUR100M losses in 2009,still want to see his explanation of that figure. Breaking even or up to 15M loss in 2008 to 100m down by end of 2009 is a big difference.

FlutterinBantam

To-morrow should shed some light on the "plan"

Tenger

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

To-morrow should shed some light on the "plan"

Well the new Chairman (Colm Barrington) has jusr flown in from Nice with EI. Obviously getting geared up for an announcement. I was told he looked quite relaxed and tanned.

FlutterinBantam

Was the yacht stored in the rear hold???


Will always look relaxed and tanned, take it from the auld Flutt;)

FlutterinBantam

The auld merde should hit the fan next week;)

Tenger

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The auld merde should hit the fan next week;)

You're forward to that!

FlutterinBantam

Wow!!

Fairly hard hitting proposals there, There will be some scatther to get out if the terms are anyway decent!!

Ei obviously banking of the fact that a lot will go voluntarily.

steeo

8 weeks per year with a cap of 2 years

FlutterinBantam

Not too sure about that, but one thing is sure, looks like there won't be any place for wasters and malingerers in the new set up.

No harm really, these toerags generally made life difficult over the years my sources tell me.

I see also that Nov 01 is set up as the deadline,would expect that to be put back about a month.

Will certainly shake up the auld warhorses out there, thats for sure.:cool:

Tenger

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Not too sure about that, but one thing is sure, looks like there won't be any place for wasters and malingerers in the new set up.

I see also that Nov 01 is set up as the deadline,would expect that to be put back about a month.

6.1 news mentioned Nov 1st and Dec 1st. Heard George Hook venting on the radio earlier.

The redundancy in 2004 was 7000 per year of service with a max of 15 years (so 115,000) That package also had a minimum payoff of 40,000 which was stupid as the most junior (ie cheapest) staff all left and EI were left with ots of supervisors but few staff.

FlutterinBantam

Looks like a fairly draconian set up.

Anyone left will have a pay freeze, no increments guaranteed,increases on a performance basis,and a possible move to some handling agency.

Difficult to square the US cabin crews bit, they will hardly do an overnight into Dub in the morning and out again later that day???

Seems like a way to get rid of the "widebodies" amongst the cabin crew, hark back to the Jumbo days of one flt a week so I'm told.

best of luck anyway bramble, I'm sure it will work out for you.

Tenger

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Looks like a fairly draconian set up.

Anyone left will have a pay freeze, no increments guaranteed,increases on a performance basis,and a possible move to some handling agency.

Difficult to square the US cabin crews bit, they will hardly do an overnight into Dub in the morning and out again later that day???

Seems like a way to get rid of the "widebodies" amongst the cabin crew, hark back to the Jumbo days of one flt a week so I'm told.

best of luck anyway bramble, I'm sure it will work out for you.

I can swallow certain cut backs as long as they will increase the viability of EI. The current proposals don't do that. All they do is dramatically reduce staff costs. Will this translate into a more porfitable airline....in the short term yes....but lets see them expand in 2 years time when they realise they do not have the flexibility in their resources to do so and still attract passengers.
Personally I accept a pay freeze. But I can't see how this will help unless there is an increase in efficiency in many areas. There are a huge amount of supervisory positions in EI (In 2004 cabin crew had 1 manager,now we have 3,same job) which unless they contribute to the revenue stream should be culled. And yes there are alot of holdovers from the pre-Cahil plan years,they are an obvious group to target but EI management in the last 6 years must see things differently to me.

Foggy43

Listening to the media it looks as though this could turn into the future of Shannon rather than the future of Aer Lingus.

steeo

Bramble wrote: »

That package also had a minimum payoff of 40,000 which was stupid as the most junior (ie cheapest) staff all left and EI were left with ots of supervisors but few staff.

Why was it stupid ???

They got rid of cheap staff yes, in the short term but you add up wages, RDA, shift, pension contributions, holidays and FIL's over the next 30 years and that's a lot more than €40k.

Tenger

steeo wrote: »

Why was it stupid ???

They got rid of cheap staff yes, in the short term but you add up wages, RDA, shift, pension contributions, holidays and FIL's over the next 30 years and that's a lot more than €40k.

Because 12 months after the redundancy they needed to re-hire more staff. They had allowed the bottom rung of the rank structure to depart which left them with the more expensive mid to long term staff remaining. Mostly in supervisory postions. They also had to request cabin crew to volunteer to transfer to the ground for up to 12 months to cover the gaps in staffing.

As you say, over the course of 30 yrs these younger staff would cost a lot but younger staff with less memory would be more inclined to accept any changes to work practises. Ryanair have very few cabin crew with more than 10 years of experience,the majority are 2-3 years then move on.
The current group of younger EI staff may take the package but they should aim to target the staff who are in about 10-15 years. These are all appox mid 30s,still young enough to change career but worried about family and mortgages. These are the staff who have the potential to cost EI the most over the next 10-20 years. More senior staff may take the package as early retirement or may just stick it out for 4-5 years until they can retire.

FlutterinBantam

All this is of course, due in a large way to lack of any meaningful reform and changes over the last three years since EI went private and low cost.

Ok there was loads of shaping and arse boxing, but no real change.

As I kept pointing out nothing had really changed and the high cost base was the real problem.

Now at last looks like end game,as I notice all the usual escape avenues eg re deployment throughout the company have been boxed off, and a tight time frame set out.

I would expect a rush to take any offer, as the alternatives are at best:

Endure a winter of discontent with pay freeze

Work for a handling agency.

Limp along to retirement listening to the same auld crap year in year out.

Anyone within an asses roar or retirement will grab this chance with both hands I would suggest.

FlutterinBantam

I would suggest that the outsourcing of Cargo/baggage handling/cleaning/catering at Irish Airports, would be a strong objective for EI mgmnt.

This is what they really want to achieve,rest is less important.

I would imagine that at least at Dublin frontline check in staff might be retained on reduced conditions.

Pilots keeping very quiet I notice, their co-operation or lack of it would be crucial in how things pan out,as would be the SIPTU attitude Airport wide.


Interesting times ahead.

Fulton Crown

OPENROAD wrote: »

Unlikely they will, just book with someone else if you can.

As a fairly regular Lingus passenger would agree with above - will book trips with other airlines while this uncertainty exists - although would prefer to fly the National Airline.

What people must realise is that EI is a former featherbedded state enterprise which now finds itself a small player in a fiercly competitive and cutthroath market place and not to try and reduce cost base and increase efficiencies would be commercial suicide.

To put it more starkly - the airline will go to the wall if nothin is done.

From contributions of other seemingly well informed posters it appears that some of the practices and personnel more appropriate to the monopoly days have still to be weeded out.

A lot of responsibility on the trade union heads if this is going to be resolved would be the way I see it.