Upcoming Police State: New laws with e100 on the spot fines for being drunk in public

AlmightyCushion

andrewlownie101, I've had enough of your twaddle and abuse. You can take two weeks off.

CiaranC

javaboy wrote: »

I'm skeptical on that one tbh.



Who has suggested doing away with due process? If the right to not pay the fine and to contest the charge in court is eliminated, I'll be down at the Dáil protesting with the rest of you. I doubt that will be the case though.

Are we trying to clean up the streets or not here? Lets go the whole hog here I say. We're already talking about a grand bit of legislation that lets the fine fellows in the Gardai fine anyone with the neck to be on our streets of a Friday night at their discretion. Good start. But why just threaten to up their fine if they have the gall to challenge it in the courts like we do with the driving fines? Why not just scrap the court end altogether. We'll have more money for more Gardai and sure there'll be no crime at all. Worked in East Germany, it could work here. If you arent one of these scumbags, sure youve nothing to worry about. But maybe you ARE one - ha!

javaboy

CiaranC wrote: »

Are we trying to clean up the streets or not here? Lets go the whole hog here I say. We've already talking about a grand bit of legislation that lets the fine fellows in the Gardai fine anyone with the nexk to be on our streets of a Friday night at their discretion.

Only if they are drunk.

Good start. But why just threaten to up their fine if they have the gall to challenge it in the courts like we do with the driving fines? Why not just scrap the court end altogether. We'll have more money for more Gardai and sure there'll be no crime at all. Worked in East Germany, it could work here. If you arent one of these scumbags, sure youve nothing to worry about. But maybe you ARE one - ha!

As I've said already, I find the whole idea of a 'discounted' fine for not exercising your right to go to court a bit shady and probably unconstitutional.

Run_to_da_hills

steph1 wrote: »

Some Gardai will apply a common sense approach. Being drunk and disorderly I agree with. I know what problems that brings as I am a taxi driver. But somebody who has had a few pints and is just walking up the road to home minding their business and not bothering anyone. If they come upon a Gardai are they going to be fined 100 euro.

This country is gone to hell altogether.

Again my point in this whole thread.

A Person is walking quietly home from the pub after a few being a danger to no one, (As I have often done in the past) a squad car pulls up, window rolls down, "Where are you going", your man utters a few words, again the cops say "Where are you going " they get impatient at your man because they cant understand him properly . They slap a e100 fine on him for being drunk in a public place.

With the way the economy is going there is going to be a lot more people like the above example walking home after a few beers than ever before and of course those that will be hit the hardest will be the lesser well off that cannot afford taxis.

This is all planned to boost funding for the Gardai to enable them to purchase more and more sophisticated surveillance equipment.

marcsignal

steph1 wrote: »

.....But somebody who has had a few pints and is just walking up the road to home minding their business and not bothering anyone. If they come upon a Gardai are they going to be fined 100 euro.

This country is gone to hell altogether.

hold the front page...nobody is going to be fined for walking home minding their own business. If you've had a row with your other half, and are shit faced walking home, kicking wing mirrors off parked cars, or running out in the middle of the road in front of traffic, you probably will, and you'll deserve it

There is generally a learning curve with drinking alcohol, and as a country, ourselves and England are still in the kindregarden. javaboy eluded to it already, if you cant handle your booze, don't drink, or it might cost you 100 euro for being a fcuking gobshite

120_Minutes

CiaranC wrote: »

If you arent one of these scumbags, sure youve nothing to worry about.

i'm not, and i wont. and if i ever am stopped i'll just rattle off article 4 as mentioned above. "i'm doing no harm to myself or anyone else, bye now"

CiaranC

marcsignal wrote: »

hold the front page...nobody is going to be fined for walking home minding their own business.

Then why make a law letting the Garda fine you for doing just that?

Jesus, its not rocket science. A five year old could grapple it.

Why make a law that lets the Garda fine anyone they like and hope they wont use it? Why not just, you know, not make the law in the first place?

120_Minutes

marcsignal wrote: »

There is generally a learning curve with drinking alcohol, and as a country, ourselves and England are still in the kindregarden. javaboy eluded to it already, if you cant handle your booze, don't drink, or it might cost you 100 euro for being a fcuking gobshite

Thank You! my point exactly. worried about getting fined? dont act like a gob****e....cant have fun without being a gob****e? then grow up sonny jim.

marcsignal

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

a squad car pulls up, window rolls down, "Where are you going", your man utters a few words, again the cops say "Where are you going " they get impatient at your man because they cant understand him properly . They slap a e100 fine on him for being drunk in a public place.

as far as i know, a guard cannot ask you where you are going, but can ask you where you've been. Having said that, if a guard asked me where i was going, and i responded 'ask me arse ye fcuking pig' because I was locked, and had an attitude, then I'd expect to get a fine.

CiaranC

120_Minutes wrote: »

i'm not, and i wont. and if i ever am stopped i'll just rattle off article 4 as mentioned above. "i'm doing no harm to myself or anyone else, bye now"

Good man. Except under this law you could still get a 100 euro fine. Which makes it a stupid law.

120_Minutes

CiaranC wrote: »

Good man. Except under this law you could still get a 100 euro fine. Which makes it a stupid law.

and i'll waiver it and ask for the summons, he'll not want the hassle and let me go.

CiaranC

CiaranC wrote: »

If you arent one of these scumbags, sure youve nothing to worry about.

This is the exact argument that usually accompanies an infringement of civil liberties. Anyone who thinks this argument makes sense and is fine needs to look hard at themselves and consider the things this argument has been used to justify in the past.

kowloon

If it goes on blood alcohol level and not disorderly conduct you'll be done anyway.

suckslikeafox

Peoples main point here is that the law is fine because they'll only use it for people making trouble, etc but do we not have antisocial behaviour laws already for this?

marcsignal

CiaranC wrote: »

Then why make a law letting the Garda fine you for doing just that?

The offence has existed for years and years and years, the difference is, that now they can slap you with an on the spot fine, instead of wasting man hours, calling a car, transporting you to the station, taking a statement, and filling in mounds of paperwork, while 77 year old mrs o reilley down the road is being held at knifepoint in her bedroom, raped beaten and robbed, by the kind of person the police should be dealing with instead of having to deal with drunk brats.

kowloon

I've never seen an on the spot fine been given, do you get a receipt?

120_Minutes

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the exact argument that usually accompanies an infringement of civil liberties. Anyone who thinks this argument makes sense and is fine needs to look hard at themselves and consider the things this argument has been used to justify in the past.

the thing is though, less drunk scumbags our streets is a good thing. i'm as liberal as the next....well liberal... but i have zero tolerance for scumbaggery

Run_to_da_hills

kowloon wrote: »

I've never seen an on the spot fine been given, do you get a receipt?

Not any more, Its all typed into a hand held PDA device and loaded by USB into a central computer when they finish their shift.

CiaranC

120_Minutes wrote: »

and i'll waiver it and ask for the summons, he'll not want the hassle and let me go.

/me smacks forehead

Lol, so not only is this law mindbogglingly stupid, its completely redundant as well.

Look. My argument is that it its nuts to make it illegal to be drunk in public. If Im minding my own business walking home, its none of the states business if Im drunk or not! Allowing Garda to just fine you for such a ridiculous "offence" makes it a thousand times easier for them, they dont have to go to court, or fill in any paperwork or talk to a Judge or anything. Meanwhile, presumably you have to deal with the threat of higher fines etc if you dare challenge it (how could you win anyway? youve actually commited the offence by doing nothing more than drinking a few and walking home!), taking a day off work, dealing with the stigma of going to court etc.

It doesnt matter if the Gards are all the soundest lads in the world and would never abuse it, or that they'd only apply it to people you dont like and not you, or that youd be able to sneak past them without them noticing, its still a stupid law. Fines for drunk and disorderly - grand! Fines for drunk - feck off!

kowloon

kowloon wrote: »

I've never seen an on the spot fine been given, do you get a receipt?

Thats what a fine is. Its a receipt saying you owe money. You bring the fine to the garda station and pay it (I'm basing this on a friend of mine that got fined. Could be different now.).


Anyway.. I read up to page 6 so this might have been mentioned..

I believe the drunk fine will only be enforceable during the day time. On weekend nights, when the majority of people crawling the streets are drunk, i doubt it will be a feasible fine.

If you're stumbling around like a fool and other people feel uncomfortable around you during the day.. *boom*.. fined (and rightfully so).

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're stumbling around like a fool and other people feel uncomfortable around you during the day.. *boom*.. fined (and rightfully so).

I'm uncomfortable around foreigners can we have them fined too?

has anyone posted link to the actual legislation as opposed to all the hearsay and bulls**t?

marcsignal

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone who thinks this argument makes sense and is fine needs to look hard at themselves and consider the things this argument has been used to justify in the past.

ye see this is the kind of subtle scaremongering that i have to roll my eyes at. what things Kayroo?? be specific here, are you making some reference to nazi germany or something, because someone always says something like that when a law like this is modernised. You're making it sound like 'anyone found drunk will be arrested, locked up and then burned in a big fire'

we seriously need to grow up here in ireland, it's laughable, and any boardsie here that's been around europe will know what I mean.

Run_to_da_hills

THe real loosers will again be the poor, under the former court system the majority of offenders would be asked by the judge to put e20 into the poor box and be given the probation order.

Now in future all this money will go directly into the ar*e pocket of an Garda Siochain.

marcsignal

Bambi wrote: »

has anyone posted link to the actual legislation as opposed to all the hearsay and bulls**t?

+1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Now in future all this money will go directly into the ar*e pocket of an Garda Siochain.

i'd like to see some proof of where the money goes

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

I'm uncomfortable around foreigners can we have them fined too?

I think thats something you should keep to yourself.





Seriously though... Its like saying "I'm uncomfortable around women, can we have them fined too?

120_Minutes

marcsignal wrote: »

we seriously need to grow up here in ireland, it's laughable, and any boardsie here that's been around europe will know what I mean.

+1. Ireland is the petulant teen of europe. what do teenagers like to do? knacker drinking and mouthing off to authority.

Lol, so not only is this law mindbogglingly stupid, its completely redundant as well.

not the point i was making. if you're stopped and are able to competently explain yourself and not be arsehole, and you're drunk...then you're ok. if you're staggering home and not able to stand....well tough.

Run_to_da_hills

marcsignal wrote: »

i'd like to see some proof of where the money goes

As i mentioned already It will more than likely go towards the purchase of more state of the art surveillance equipment and also the funding of the chipped National ID.

AlmightyCushion

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It will more than likely go towards the purchase of more state of the art surveillance equipment and the funding of the chipped National ID.

Chipped? Can it play pirated games?

120_Minutes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It will more than likely go towards the purchase of state of the art surveillance equipment and the funding of the chipped National ID.

*crosses fingers for the government plan to neuter scumbags*

oh please, oh please...

monument

javaboy wrote: »

Exactly. A bit of common sense is needed. There are probably half a dozen laws out there that the Gardai could already nab most people for if they were so inclined. The simple fact is that most of them aren't out to get you. And those who are don't need a law like this to harass you.

Most people will not come to the attention of the Gardai when a little tipsy and so will have nothing to worry about.

So what about the minority of "bad apple" garda and the few people who do come to their attention?

javaboy wrote: »

Who has suggested doing away with due process? If the right to not pay the fine and to contest the charge in court is eliminated, I'll be down at the Dáil protesting with the rest of you. I doubt that will be the case though.

As the amended saying goes: Only the rich and the (really) poor can afford to go to court.

kowloon wrote: »

I think the official line is the bar should stop serving you before you're drunk.

Remember: practicality and law are very different.

Being able to hand out on-the-spot fines to people is quite diffrent.

Remember: The police are only a group of humans, leaving the law open to abuse and it will be abused soon or later to one level or another.

sdonn_1 wrote: »

I have thought it through. The logical conclusion is that criminal behaviour (and let's not beat about the bush, that's what this is) must, and will, be punished.

...

Yes, and the majority can control themselves afterwards and not cause a scene. I have no problem whatsoever with that.

Just to be clear as has been said 100s times already: The law makes even the slightest bit of intoxication possible "criminal behaviour".

120_Minutes wrote: »

i've said it before and i'll say it again, the powers that be are dragging this country into 21st century maturity and "petulant teenager ireland" doesnt want to go. boo hoo, grow up. if you're not a cnut this wont affect you. we're a modern country and its time to start acting like it, this attitute of "ah sure it'll be grand" has gone on long enough, time to ditch this gombeenism and act our age.

You're the one who is saying "ah sure it'll be grand"!!!

And as for "if you're not a cnut this wont affect you"...

marcsignal wrote: »

in the end, if you're walking home late at night, pissed, but not causing any problems, not being a danger to yourself or others, then you're very unlikely to come to the attention of a guard.

120_Minutes wrote: »

I can go out any night of the week, get as drunk as i like, and walk home and i KNOW i'll never be fined. why? cos i dont look for it and draw attention to myself.

How much may articles about Garda abuse have you read in the last ten years and/or have you watched Prime Time or the news when they covered the same?

marcsignal wrote: »

we seriously need to grow up here in ireland, it's laughable, and any boardsie here that's been around europe will know what I mean.

What are you talking about? Maybe less tax and less restrictions (longer opening hours, longer off licence opening hours, being able to drink on the street)? Because that's what it's like around a large part of Europe. Where are you thinking about???