Question for the High Horse Brigade

Hagar

Is it actually possible to drive for a normal day's motoring without un-intentionally breaking some motoring law however small? Given the poor road signage, poor lane layout and marking, inconsistent speed limits, decisions we are forced to make due to the poor driving of others etc etc are we all sunk before we start?

Can anyone on here say that they never ever break the rules of the road?

victor1

good point, no i cant say that

Biro

Hagar wrote: »

Is it actually possible to drive for a normal day's motoring without un-intentionally breaking some motoring law however small? Given the poor road signage, poor lane layout and marking, inconsistent speed limits, decisions we are forced to make due to the poor driving of others etc etc are we all sunk before we start?

Can anyone on here say that they never ever break the rules of the road?

It's possible alright, I'm passenger with someone who's on their 2nd prov, so I'm helping them keep within the law at all times, and it works out fine for the most part.
On the other hand though I don't keep within the law when I'm driving. There are a number of Stop signs that I never completely stop for, and on some parts of Limerick by keeping up with traffic I'd be up to 8 or 10mph above the limit.

ergonomics

Just drove from Kilkenny to Limerick. At one point I came around a very sharp corner to find a car halfway on my side of the road, as one one back wheel and one front wheel well onto my side of the road. I was only going 60km/h so I was able to stop and pull around him in time but I blew the ancient farmer driving the car off the road.

So no, it's not possible to never break the rules of the road because according to the ROTR that is not one of the reasons to use the horn, but we almost all do it

ergonomics

Biro wrote: »

It's possible alright...for the most part.
.

So it's not actually possible 100% of the time?

Danbo!

Hagar wrote: »

Is it actually possible to drive for a normal day's motoring without un-intentionally breaking some motoring law however small? Given the poor road signage, poor lane layout and marking, inconsistent speed limits, decisions we are forced to make due to the poor driving of others etc etc are we all sunk before we start?

Can anyone on here say that they never ever break the rules of the road?

Anan1

Hagar wrote: »

Is it actually possible to drive for a normal day's motoring without un-intentionally breaking some motoring law however small? Given the poor road signage, poor lane layout and marking, inconsistent speed limits, decisions we are forced to make due to the poor driving of others etc etc are we all sunk before we start?

Can anyone on here say that they never ever break the rules of the road?

I break speed limits deliberately on a daily basis. What I do not do, though, is whine about 'I didn't see the sign', 'the nasty Garda was hiding' etc etc when I get caught. If you're big enough to break the law, you're big enough to take the consequences.

L1011

I know I break various rules of the road every single day, and pretty much have done since the first day I started driving. I, however, will take the consequences of my actions (which would basically be limited to speeding offences) without whimpering and bickering. Does this make me "high horse brigade"?

Biro

ergonomics wrote: »

So it's not actually possible 100% of the time?

The dangers of misquoting or quoting out of context! That's not how my sentence went!!
The first part of "It's possible alright" meant that it is possible to follow the rules of the road to the letter if you try hard. The second part of that sentence "for the most part" meant that while the Lerner driver suceeds some days, other days there are learner mistakes. Which is fine and normal.

Eoin

MYOB wrote: »

Does this make me "high horse brigade"?

No, but unfortunately telling someone they are driving like a prick when they admit to driving like a prick can summon the usual "high horse" comments.

Hagar

I wouldn't like anyone to take the high horse brigade thing too personally, it's not intended that way.

At the moment I'm parked on a yellow no parking zone on a one way street about 6m from a corner. But it's outside my own house on a sleepy side street in a quiet country town so no real harm done. In fact I'm about 5 doors from the cop shop and they stop and chat sometimes as they pass but never mention the parking. I'm a sinner too. Certain parking rules don't apply to me.

I suppose I'm just making the point that we shouldn't be unduly harsh with posters who come on here and admit to doing the wrong thing. Politely discuss how they are wrong and maybe set them back on the right track without trying to put them down. Live and let live.

Eoin

Hagar wrote: »

I suppose I'm just making the point that we shouldn't be unduly harsh with posters who come on here and admit to doing the wrong thing. Politely discuss how they are wrong and maybe set them back on the right track without trying to put them down. Live and let live.

My point is that you are more likely to be flamed for doing that here, rather than the person who has actually admitted to driving like an arsehole.

ART6

A future generation of robot cars will, no doubt, manage to operate strictly within the plethora of road traffic laws, at which point new laws that they can't comply with will have to be introduced. Meanwhile, while I consider myself to be a very experienced driver, I am not a robot, so I don't doubt I break some law or other fairly regularly. But given the size of the Statute Book and the urge our politicians have to legislate (their sole purpose it seems) I equally don't doubt that I manage to break daily many other laws I don't even know of.

Rowley Birkin QC

Yup, I would also say that 99% of the time I go on the public road I break a ROTR in some way shape or form.

It's virtually impossible not to. Consider an area where the speed from 100 kph to 60 kph. Is it possible to instantly reduce your speed by 40 kph in a safe manner?


That said, there are some rules that I will never break such as drink/drug driving or driving without seatbelt/letting those in my car travel unbelted.

Wibbler

MYOB wrote: »

I know I break various rules of the road every single day, and pretty much have done since the first day I started driving.

Do you mean deliberately? If so, what's your motivation?

I'm by no means a perfect driver myself - I make my share of mistakes - but I try not to break the rules of the road.

I'm not getting up on a high horse here, but I'm genuinely curious to know the motivations of folks who approach driving from a different perspective.

L1011

Wibbler wrote: »

Do you mean deliberately? If so, what's your motivation?

I'm by no means a perfect driver myself - I make my share of mistakes - but I try not to break the rules of the road.

I'm not getting up on a high horse here, but I'm genuinely curious to know the motivations of folks who approach driving from a different perspective.

Speed.

I also passed people on the left today when the outside lanes suddenly slowed down on the N7 and the empty inner lane I was in didn't, waiting to be hauled away to the 'joy for that one

Tipsy Mac

I currently can't travel 1 mile from my house without breaking the law numberous times thanks mainly to worthless public sector employees not able to do their jobs.....
Crossing a continuous white line as some tool parks opposite it in full view of passing Gardai.
Passing the stop line at traffic lights as the sensors to activate the lights are embedded after the line.
Cross into the cycle lane as there's traffic islands fitted in the centre of the road making it impossible to pass without crushing the right side of my car.

L1011

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

I currently can't travel 1 mile from my house without breaking the law numberous times thanks mainly to worthless public sector employees not able to do their jobs.....
Crossing a continuous white line as some tool parks opposite it in full view of passing Gardai.
Passing the stop line at traffic lights as the sensors to activate the lights are embedded after the line.
Cross into the cycle lane as there's traffic islands fitted in the centre of the road making it impossible to pass without crushing the right side of my car.

You don't live in Sallins by any chance? Those last two sound very familiar...

Wibbler

MYOB wrote: »

Speed.

I also passed people on the left today when the outside lanes suddenly slowed down on the N7 and the empty inner lane I was in didn't, waiting to be hauled away to the 'joy for that one

Would you not be technically 'okay' there, what with the slowness caused by traffic conditions and it not being a wreckless attempt to undertake? :-)

Wibbler

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

I currently can't travel 1 mile from my house without breaking the law numberous times thanks mainly to worthless public sector employees not able to do their jobs.....
Crossing a continuous white line as some tool parks opposite it in full view of passing Gardai.
Passing the stop line at traffic lights as the sensors to activate the lights are embedded after the line.
Cross into the cycle lane as there's traffic islands fitted in the centre of the road making it impossible to pass without crushing the right side of my car.

Now there's something to get on our high horses about. The quality of road design / signage / markings are all third world in this country.

L1011

Wibbler wrote: »

Would you not be technically 'okay' there, what with the slowness caused by traffic conditions and it not being a wreckless attempt to undertake? :-)

The law is very, very poorly worded on this issue.

eringobragh

MYOB wrote: »

The law is very, very poorly worded on this issue.

Yep agreed ..and a different scenario I read somewhere a lad over here (on one of the irish biker forums) on a bike overtook a car on a straight white line but didn't cross the line at all and was done for it.

On Topic from before I agree Anan1 and MYOB, i myself often don't adhere to all the ROTR mainly ridiculously low speed limits, and have since I've started driving, I'll take the ticket if i get pulled over...but there's no need for the traffic cops speak to us like a schoolchild

L1011

eringobragh wrote: »

Yep and i read somewhere a lad over here (on one of the irish biker forums) on a bike overtook a car on a straight white line but didn't cross the line at all and was done for it.

I'd expect him to be, to be honest - dangerous driving rather than crossing a white line, though. Overtaking someone in the same lane as they are in is not giving them enough road space to react if required = dangerous.

daveharnett

Wibbler wrote: »

Do you mean deliberately? If so, what's your motivation?

I'm by no means a perfect driver myself - I make my share of mistakes - but I try not to break the rules of the road.

I'm not getting up on a high horse here, but I'm genuinely curious to know the motivations of folks who approach driving from a different perspective.

On one stretch of dual carriageway in limerick, the speed limit goes from 100 to 50 (it's a full kilometre before a roundabout). I have never seen anybody obey it, and I think it would be dangerous to do so, considering the 'normal' and 'natural' speed of the road is so much higher.

So, my motivation for breaking the law every day? safety!

Esel

bigkev49 wrote: »

Consider an area where the speed from 100 kph to 60 kph. Is it possible to instantly reduce your speed by 40 kph in a safe manner?

If you can see the sign in advance, yes! (Not 'instantly', of course).

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

..Crossing a continuous white line as some tool parks opposite it...

Not illegal to cross, if you have to, in this scenario.

eringobragh wrote: »

...a lad over here (on one of the irish biker forums) on a bike overtook a car on a straight white line but didn't cross the line at all and was done for it.

If the wheels were on the line, half the bike was over it!

I am probably a member of the "high horse" brigade, but agree, it is impossible to follow the rules of the road 100% of the time, anyone who says they do is either lying or naive. However, as someone pointed out earlier, there are certain rules that need to be obeyed at all times, overtaking in a no overtaking zone for example, allowing passengers not to wear seatbelts or children not to be in car seats - pure selfish.

Unfortunately, the government change the rules of the road without notice, for example, the old rules of the road book used to state that you use the left hand lane for first and second exits - which is the rule i have always followed, since i've been driving there has never been a "after 12 O'clock" rule in the book, however, apparently there used to be, now, the rules state, "when turning right" and "when going straight ahead" firstly making the rule very vague, and secondly meaning if you do not know the rule has changed, you'll break it! phew, that was a long one!!! :eek:

crosstownk

Let he without sin cast the first stone........

I don't think it's possible to go a whole day without breaking some law. Most commonly for me it would be breaking the posted speed limit. For example, If I'm in a 100 kmh zone and the vehicle in front is doing 90kmh, I will pass it as quickly as possible, which means I could be doing 110/115kmh as I pull back in. I'll slow back to 100kmh, but I have exceeded the limit. If a Garda was up ahead I'd be done.

Amber gambling would be a close second some days........

eringobragh

esel wrote: »

If you can see the sign in advance, yes! (Not 'instantly', of course).

Not illegal to cross, if you have to, in this scenario.

If the wheels were on the line, half the bike was over it!

Sorry I meant on a white line road itself AFAIK the bike didn't pass or was on the line.

Wishbone Ash

Hagar wrote: »

Is it actually possible to drive for a normal day's motoring without un-intentionally breaking some motoring law however small? ............

.............Can anyone on here say that they never ever break the rules of the road?

I'd say it's virtually impossible to avoid breaking some regulations.

I know I don't always come to a complete stop at STOP signs. I've occasionally given a beep of my horn or flashed my full lights to someone I know. I regularly enter a hatched area in my area as to not do so could place myself and others in greater danger.

I've driven a few times with a blown bulb!

There are also a plethora of regulations out there that the 'ordinary' motorist isn't familiar with and therefore may be unknowingly breaking.

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Crossing a continuous white line as some tool parks opposite it

Crossing a continuous white line is not illegal when you have no other option. How do you think drivers of large/long vehicles manage on narrow roads?

Tipsy Mac wrote:

Cross into the cycle lane as there's traffic islands fitted in the centre of the road making it impossible to pass without crushing the right side of my car.

Presumably it's a cycle track - not a cycle lane?

Mr. Presentable

Hagar wrote: »

I wouldn't like anyone to take the high horse brigade thing too personally, it's not intended that way.

At the moment I'm parked on a yellow no parking zone on a one way street about 6m from a corner. But it's outside my own house on a sleepy side street in a quiet country town so no real harm done. In fact I'm about 5 doors from the cop shop and they stop and chat sometimes as they pass but never mention the parking. I'm a sinner too. Certain parking rules don't apply to me.

I suppose I'm just making the point that we shouldn't be unduly harsh with posters who come on here and admit to doing the wrong thing. Politely discuss how they are wrong and maybe set them back on the right track without trying to put them down. Live and let live.

Yeah, but it's the ones who believe they are the only ones who can decide what's a safe speed who get neighed at, not those who park inconsiderately

Tipsy Mac

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Presumably it's a cycle track - not a cycle lane?

I'd say lane considering it's got a continuous white line between it and the rest of the road which should mean illegal to cross.