freezer,dead compressor, under gaurantee, refund or not????

bouncie

have a freezer which harvey norman have offered a full refund in the form of a credit note for their store. what I am wondering, is a cash refund something I can ask for as the item was purchased with cash. I do not feel confident purchasing from them again. any help or sugestions???

Ian Beale

When was it purchased?

cml387

Normally, if it is under guarantee, the retailer should replace it with another free of charge.

miju

Ian Beale wrote: »

When was it purchased?

OP this is a key question you need to answer before anyone can give you a proper answer

bouncie

it was purchased 6 mth ago and is under gaurantee, they are unable to find the same freezer so the are offering me a credit note for the store.
I think a full refund is what I should get as the item was faulty leaving the factory. this is what I was told by their inspector/engineer.

Biggins

If its under guarantee, you are entitled to a FULL refund. No question, no matter how they try to fob you off.
They just want to hold onto your money!
If they fail to replace it with an exact working item, the law is clear on this.

Next time in the shop bring a witness and ask him to state for the record that "your telling me I'm not entitled to my money back by law!"

Then.."right... see you in court!"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/Guides_To_Consumer_Law/Product_Safety/

SEE HERE: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-complaints/replacements_refunds_and_credit_notes

A credit note is a paper note issued by a retailer to a customer when goods are returned. A credit note acts like a voucher that can only be used in the particular shop or chain of shops that issued the credit note. If you are returning goods that are faulty you do not have to accept a credit note. Instead, you can ask for a repair, a replacement or a refund depending on the goods in question and other circumstances. If you accept a credit note you may not be able to ask for a refund afterwards.

Go one better. Print off that website page and shove it under their arrogant faces!
They don't have a leg to stand on!

bouncie

thanks that is what I thought, they are trying to tell me Im not entitled to a refund, but Im unable to even get a confirmation email that they are giving me a store credit.
I think I need proof they are admitting they are at fault??

Biggins

1. You do NOT need proof of anything except to show that the goods are faulty.
2. DO NOT ACCEPT THE CREDIT NOTE.
3. If it is under guarantee (which it is), no if's, no but's - your entitled to your money back if they can't find an exact working replacement.

Go back to the shop (with someone), with print-out and stand your ground!
Tell them your going to be back every day if necessary with a protesting placard outside, that your going to contact the local papers, go on radio to Gerry Ryan, etc till they give you want your BY LAW entitled to.

Tell them they can argue their case in court "cos' by god, thats where this case is going..."
Get tough, get your money!

jor el

bouncie wrote: »

I think I need proof they are admitting they are at fault??

Not really. You have a warranty, and statutory rights, on your side. They must replace, repair or refund. For a refund, you are under no obligation to accept a credit note, so if that's all they're offering, they are breaking the law.

Since they've offered to refund (can't replace and presumably aren't bothered offering a repair), then you are entitled to that refund. Ask for the manager, explain that if you don't get a cash/cheque refund by the time you leave the shop that your next port of call will be the Small Claims Court. If the manager has more than two brain cells, he'll accept that he's wrong (he should already know this) and will refund.

Kensington

Biggins wrote: »

Tell them your going to be back every day if necessary with a protesting placard outside, that your going to contact the local papers, go on radio to Gerry Ryan, etc till they give you want your BY LAW entitled to.

This is a complete waste of time, trust me. They'll have heard it all before of irate customers, many many times over (I'd have quite a tidy sum if I got €1 every time I'd heard this!), so it will achieve absolutely nothing for you but waste your own time and also make you look a complete tool in front of other customers in the store.

Best thing OP is to put your issue in writing, requesting a refund and send it by REGISTERED POST (so it won't *mysteriously* get lost) stating you would like a refund and that if no joy, you'll go the SCC route. Keep a copy of the letter and the postage receipt. Leave it at that - do not visit the store again. Give them 10 days to reply (state this in the letter) and if you hear nothing back or they try fobbing you off again, then do not contact them again but take it to the SCC. Be fully prepared to take it to the SCC though, in all likelihood the mention of Small Claims Court at this early stage simply rings the "Idle Customer Threat" bell in the managers mind.

Be prepared to be told to feck off though - HN may argue the credit note is their method of replacing the appliance for one of equal value, leaving you the choice of appliance you wish to go for.

Nody

Biggins wrote: »

If its under guarantee, you are entitled to a FULL refund. No question, no matter how they try to fob you off.
They just want to hold onto your money!
If they fail to replace it with an exact working item, the law is clear on this.

Next time in the shop bring a witness and ask him to state for the record that "your telling me I'm not entitled to my money back by law!"

Then.."right... see you in court!"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/Guides_To_Consumer_Law/Product_Safety/

SEE HERE: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-complaints/replacements_refunds_and_credit_notes


Go one better. Print off that website page and shove it under their arrogant faces!
They don't have a leg to stand on!

Can you for the love of what ever you believe in stop lying to the OP please and stop posting until you know what you're talking about? It is REPAIR/REPLACE/REFUND at the SALES COMPANIES DISCRETION.

No OP you do NOT have the right to the money back, that is up to the company to decide (but you can refuse a store credit note). The company has the choice of which of the three Rs to try and no matter who you bring in will change that.

Biggins

Nody wrote: »

Can you for the love of what ever you believe in stop lying to the OP please and stop posting until you know what you're talking about? It is REPAIR/REPLACE/REFUND at the SALES COMPANIES DISCRETION.

No OP you do NOT have the right to the money back, that is up to the company to decide (but you can refuse a store credit note). The company has the choice of which of the three Rs to try and no matter who you bring in will change that.

Well pardon us for agreeing with the Irish consumer organisation, the Irish Law Society, etc. We all must be wrong and you right!
The law is clear.
If they cannot repair, they can replace..
If they cannot replace, your entitled to your MONEY back - NOT A CREDIT NOTE.

Go argue with statute law!

Kensington

Biggins wrote: »

Well pardon us for agreeing with the Irish consumer organisation. We all must be wrong and you right!

The CAI says you have three options open to you - Repair, Replace, Refund. Never mentions who gets to choose which option is taken as the one to resolve the situation though.

Biggins wrote:

If they cannot replace (the original appliance)

They replace it one of equal value or of similar specifications to the original appliance.

Nody

Biggins wrote: »

Well pardon us for agreeing with the Irish consumer organisation, the Irish Law Society, etc. We all must be wrong and you right!
The law is clear.
If they cannot repair, they can replace..
If they cannot replace, your entitled to your MONEY back - NOT A CREDIT NOTE.

Go argue with statute law!

First of all that is not what you stated, allow me to qoute it again as you appear to have a short memory:

If its under guarantee, you are entitled to a FULL refund. No question, no matter how they try to fob you off.

Ring any bells?

As to the rest once again you've gotten it wrong once again. The 3 Rs are not a this then try that with a fixed order. It is at the companies discretion which they want to use. They can offer a refund directly or replace it directly with out bother to try to repair it, all depending on their choice and any of the options being correct!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Biggins wrote: »

Tell them your going to be back every day if necessary with a protesting placard outside, that your going to contact the local papers, go on radio to Gerry Ryan, etc till they give you want your BY LAW entitled to.

Jeez! Such piffle! That's no way to deal with any supplier or shop. They started by offering a Credit Note. Be calm and let them know you know you rights and want a refund; before flying off the handle and threatening this type of head-case action. Plenty of excellent advice here so far but please draw the line at this over-reaction.

You don't say if they have offered a repair, as they are entitled to do.

Biggins

Kensington wrote: »

The CAI says you have three options open to you - Repair, Replace, Refund. Never mentions who gets to choose which option is taken as the one to resolve the situation though.


They replace it one of equal value or of similar specifications to the original appliance.

Each does state that if the goods are unable to be replaced, the consumer is entitled to compensation that does not have to include a credit note. The consumer has the right to refuse a credit note - without question.

Helpful Link about the three "R's": http://www.irishconsumer.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/FAQs/Faulty_goods/
Note that the onus is not just on the seller to decide which of the three "R's" is applicable. He/she can only offer them - not enforce them (as this person is being lead to believe by shop staff).
You, the consumer has the right by law to refuse them.

chocciebutton

The 3 r's are Repair, Replace, or Refund! A colleague of mine works for a service centre, and they deal with this everyday, you never did state whether or not you were offered a repair.

Nody

To Biggins, please read my original post one more time before replying to this:

TLDR version: NCA are a bunch of muppets who're over stating the rights of the law (you have the right to cash back campaign anyone?).

Wall of text time (all from here):

21.—For section 53 of the Act of 1893 there shall be substituted the section set out in the following Table:

Remedy for breach of warranty

53.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), where there is a breach of warranty by the seller, or where the buyer elects, or is compelled, to treat any breach of a condition on the part of the seller as a breach of warranty, the buyer is not by reason only of such breach of warranty entitled to reject the goods, but he may—

( a ) set up against the seller the breach of warranty in diminution or extinction of the price, or

( b ) maintain an action against the seller for damages for the breach of warranty.

(2) Where—

( a ) the buyer deals as consumer and there is a breach of a condition by the seller which, but for this subsection, the buyer would be compelled to treat as a breach of warranty, and

( b ) the buyer, promptly upon discovering the breach, makes a request to the seller that he either remedy the breach or replace any goods which are not in conformity with the condition,

then, if the seller refuses to comply with the request or fails to do so within a reasonable time, the buyer is entitled:

(i) to reject the goods and repudiate the contract, or

(ii) to have the defect constituting the breach remedied elsewhere and to maintain an action against the seller for the cost thereby incurred by him.

(3) The onus of proving that the buyer acted with promptness under subsection (2) shall be on him.

(4) The measure of damages for breach of warranty is the estimated loss directly and naturally resulting, in the ordinary course of events, from the breach of warranty.

(5) In the case of breach of warranty of quality such loss is prima facie the difference between the value of the goods at the time of delivery to the buyer and the value they would have had if they had answered to the warranty.

(6) The fact that the buyer has set up the breach of warranty in diminution or extinction of the price or that the seller has replaced goods or remedied a breach does not of itself prevent the buyer from maintaining an action for the same breach of warranty if he has suffered further damage.

In short Biggins NCA is NOT the law, they are NOT telling you what the law states and they are NOT a source to qoute as a truth for customer rights.

Biggins

I can't agree or disagree with you as regards the quality of NCA but the original poster wanted to know I think also if she/he had to accept the credit note.
On that, from a number of sources which say the same, they have within the law, the right to refuse a credit note (not have it enforced upon them) and seek refund by alternative methods.

I'd be interested too also to hear of the person was offered a repair prior to this situation arising. It could make a big difference also.

Either way bouncie, try not to be pushed into something your unsure about.
The best thing you can do is maybe bringing someone with you, if only to get their perspective on how things are going and offer an independent (as hard as that is sometimes if its a friend) solution.

EKRIUQ

Biggins wrote: »

Go back to the shop (with someone), with print-out and stand your ground!
Tell them your going to be back every day if necessary with a protesting placard outside, that your going to contact the local papers, go on radio to Gerry Ryan, etc till they give you want your BY LAW entitled to.

Tell them they can argue their case in court "cos' by god, thats where this case is going..."
Get tough, get your money!

I hate people who think they know it all when it's their attitude that stinks in the first place. Firstly be calm and understanding and get their full side and then see what your options are, getting full credit is a good start.

Sam Vimes

Biggins wrote: »

If its under guarantee, you are entitled to a FULL refund. No question, no matter how they try to fob you off.
They just want to hold onto your money!
If they fail to replace it with an exact working item, the law is clear on this.

Next time in the shop bring a witness and ask him to state for the record that "your telling me I'm not entitled to my money back by law!"

Then.."right... see you in court!"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/Guides_To_Consumer_Law/Product_Safety/

SEE HERE: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-complaints/replacements_refunds_and_credit_notes


Go one better. Print off that website page and shove it under their arrogant faces!
They don't have a leg to stand on!

Biggins wrote: »

1. You do NOT need proof of anything except to show that the goods are faulty.
2. DO NOT ACCEPT THE CREDIT NOTE.
3. If it is under guarantee (which it is), no if's, no but's - your entitled to your money back if they can't find an exact working replacement.

Go back to the shop (with someone), with print-out and stand your ground!
Tell them your going to be back every day if necessary with a protesting placard outside, that your going to contact the local papers, go on radio to Gerry Ryan, etc till they give you want your BY LAW entitled to.

Tell them they can argue their case in court "cos' by god, thats where this case is going..."
Get tough, get your money!

please stop saying that, every single thing you said there is wrong and people will end up reading that but not all the replies telling them you're wrong and will make some poor shop assistant's life hell and make a fool of themselves

Sam Vimes

to clarify:


if the item is faulty, the retailer has three options:

1. Refund
2. Repair
3. Replacement

nowhere there does it say that it has to be replaced with the same model. it is perfectly legal to replace with an equivalent model.

you are right in that he doesn't have to accept a credit note but your interpretation of that is wrong. credit notes have no legal standing but in this case it is a reasonable solution. he is entitled to a replacement and he is getting a replacement. all a credit note means is that he doesn't have to take the replacement home right then and there, he can come back at his leisure and get the replacement which he is enetitled to

he absolutely has the right to refuse a credit note but unless he has a vehicle capable of carrying home a fridge with him it would be a very stupid thing to do

craichoe

I'd call the manufacturer first, usually their quite good at sorting out problems, the retailer is only a middleman anyway.

That way you dont have to deal with the Retailer that you have lost confidence in.

Biggins

Sam Vimes wrote: »

please stop saying, every single thing you said there is wrong and people will end up reading that but not all the replaies telling them you're wrong and will make some poor shop assistant's life hell and make a fool of themselves

Yea, right.
Pardon some of us for agreeing with multiple independent law societies assessments. The rest are all wrong and your totally right!
And by the way... you are who exactly to give orders to say whom can post?

Sam Vimes

Biggins wrote: »

Yea, right.
Pardon some of us for agreeing with multiple independent law societies assessments. The rest are all wrong and your totally right!
And by the way... you are who exactly to give orders to say whom can post?

i'm a person who worked in retail for years and had to put up with hundreds of people who KNEW THEIR RIGHTS!!!!!11!!!1111!!11!11!

chances are they read their 'rights' from threads just like these where people such as yourself gave wrong information.

Biggins wrote: »

you are who exactly to give orders to say whom can post?

"please stop" is an order now is it? must make a note of that

Sam Vimes

now if they can't give an equivalent (note the difference between equivalent and exact) replacement or an acceptable replacement, and they don't want to repair it, then he is entitled to a refund. he can take his credit note and look around the shop and if there is nothing that is acceptable as a replacement to him and they still refuse to give him a refund, then they're breaking the law

edit:and of course "acceptable" could end up being determined by a judge. he could be rejecting a replacement that's just as good as the original for no apparent reason and in that case a judge would most likely rule in favour of the shop

Biggins

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i'm a person who worked in retail for years and had to put up with hundreds of people who KNEW THEIR RIGHTS!...

Just for the record, I too worked in retail for 20+ years but I (and the multiple organisations I provided links for) still must know nothing.
You must be an oracle of all that is right!

We will just have to agree, to disagree and leave it at that.

Sam Vimes

Biggins wrote: »

Just for the record, I too worked in retail for 20+ years but I (and the multiple organisations I provided links for) still must know nothing.
You must be an oracle of all that is right!

apparently so

Biggins

Sam Vimes wrote: »

apparently so

LOL

Peace and happiness to you. Life is too short to be arguing at the end of the day.

Sam Vimes

Biggins wrote: »

LOL

Peace and happiness to you. Life is too short to be arguing at the end of the day.

na, as the oracle i'm never going to die

Biggins

Sam Vimes wrote: »

na, as the oracle i'm never going to die

Now thats one secret you will have to share!