Tottenham: Just what is happening to them?!

Daysha

Two years ago, they were far and away the best PL club outside the top 4. They had a likeable manager in Martin Jol, a strong spine throughout the team, a potentially leathal strikeforce in Berbatov, Keane and Defoe and were only 90 minutes from Champions League football.

Now? Well, for the second year running they're rooted to the bottom of the table after the first month of football. Their 3 strikers have gone to Man United, Liverpool and Portsmouth respectively and are now left with a vastly over-rated and over-priced Darren Bent, a former Man United youth team player who has seen less than 90 minutes of PL football and a Russian who frankly only came to prominance after Euro 2008.

The money is obviously there, they've got the manager they chased for over a year, a strong defense on paper and a wealth of quality attacking midfielders to choose from.

What's the cause? Can Ramos just not cut it in England? Has it been several misgivings in the transfer window? Or is it that unless they make a real breakthrough players will always use Spurs as a stepping stone to the top 4?

SantryRed

They're fcuking sh1t.

End of. :pac:

DSB

To be fair, Villa were unreal there.

OPENROAD

deise59 wrote: »

Two years ago, they were far and away the best PL club outside the top 4. ?

I wouldn't go that far.

Savman

Er, who cares? So they spent millions and cant get it together, boo hoo.

Charlie

It's oversimplifying it, but imo, poor poor execution in the transfer market from the board. That includes both incomings and outgoings. They have signed some quality players, but neglected areas woefully, and dragged out deals like Berbatov to the detriment of their opening fixtures.

staker

They're taking an awful long time to gel.
And that fcukking Defoe won,t stop scoring, it's not funny:rolleyes:

eagle eye

Eh its four games into the season. They have one point, United have four points and are 14 on goal difference, 18th has 4 points as well. I don't hear anyone getting too worried about them.


This is a silly thread, far too early in the season, this is rubbish.

staker

It's just the normal venting process. wp Aston villa

Dont be at yourself

They need to sort out their midfield. I feel sorry for Jol, if he could have used that Darren Bent money on a combative central midfielder and a defender or two, they could have been really pushing on.

As it stands, they've sold half of their first team over the summer, and replaced them largely with young and inexperienced players.

Helix

DSB wrote: »

To be fair, Villa were unreal there.

lol

did you really think we were that good?

spurs are just rubbish, the most surprising thing about it is that people are surprised

Villain

They spent money but not enough I mean have they gone anyway near to replacing Keane and Berba?? They made 16 million on transfers, they need strikers

Helix

its their lightweight midfield and defence thatll cause them problems, not the front line

strikers may seem important on paper, but theyre not worth a jot to spurs til they get the rest of the team sorted

Villain

I dont agree Lennon and Bentley have the quality to deliver but no-one to finish it.

Adamcp898

If you buy a whole new team then you can't expect them to play well together instantly, still a team of individuals on the pitch and don't play like a team. That said I think Ramos should've started the same side that played Chelsea.

Corluka was ****e.

DSB

Helix wrote: »

lol

did you really think we were that good?

spurs are just rubbish, the most surprising thing about it is that people are surprised

Yeah definitely. Looked really strong in defence. ReoCoker and Barry were immense and Petrov has improved bigtime this season. Young, well hes Ashley Young. Carew has been class, and whatever peoples opinions on Agbonlahor he always looks like he might get a goal.

vincenzo1975

They are simply lacking Leaders and personalities on the pitch that can inspire the other players.

Helix

Villain wrote: »

I dont agree Lennon and Bentley have the quality to deliver but no-one to finish it.

the wings arent the issue, its the ridiculously featherweight midfield with no oomph to it. spurs are too easy to take apart coz theyve no grit or muscle in the middle

its the same problem they had last year

theyll continue to perform poorly until it, and the back line, are properly addressed. they had keane and berbatov last year and were still pretty rubbish, a front 2 doesnt make any difference when you concede soft goals and cant bully the middle

Adamcp898

Villain wrote: »

I dont agree Lennon and Bentley have the quality to deliver but no-one to finish it.

There was no quality in the delivery tonight anyway.

Helix

DSB wrote: »

whatever peoples opinions on Agbonlahor he always looks like he might get a goal.

dont know about that

eagle eye

WTF, Is the Villa thread closed or something and the prem week 4 match thread, this is just clogging up the first page of the forum.

Galvasean

For the past few years we've heard the likes of Jamie Redknapp leading the array of voices crowing on about how Spurs are getting closer and closer to the top 4. The league table has said the exact opposite.

I think its down to a poor transfer policy. They spent £16million on Bent when the strike force was the only part of the squad that didn't need strengthening.
Then offloading your top 3 strikers (Berbatov, Keane & Defoe) in the space of a year without adequately replacing them.
When you look at all the other players the sold and compare them to the players the signed as replacements this season it shouldn't be surprising that the team isn't improving..

Villain

eagle eye wrote: »

WTF, Is the Villa thread closed or something and the prem week 4 match thread, this is just clogging up the first page of the forum.

Well we could post in the Spurs thread, oh no wait Spurs have their own forum, they are so special and all :rolleyes:

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Don't worry lads they're still gonna beat Arsenal to forth like last season:pac:

Seriously though I think they will improve as the season progresses and the team gels. The midfield is still too lightweight and they've gotten rid of what was probably the best strike force in the premiership but there's certainly still enough talent there for them to at least come top 6

Adamcp898

Galvasean wrote: »

For the past few years we've heard the likes of Jamie Redknapp

Don't know about that, think he's always had a bit of a chip on his shoulder regards Spurs or at least it seems so when you hear him say anything about them on Sky, I reckon something happened him while he was there that he wasn't best pleases about

leninbenjamin

it's very simple, once again they've spent their transfer budget on superfluous players while their soft core has been left untouched.

in order to be competitive they need two new CBs, two new midfielders (one an outirght holding, the other a bit more box to box i feel) which is exactly what they have been lacking for the past 5 or 6 transfer windows.

I suppose i should also add my doubts about Ramos. he's not been able to get to grips with the Premiership at all i feel, the best performances have come in cups which tend to be more conservative and tactical anyway. i do however think the last thing they should do is fire yet another manager. they seem to be a club addicted to chaos, anytime there is a hint of progress they have to go f*ck it up with some inhouse fighting.

Het-Field

1.Brown
2.Defoe
3.Robinson
4.Naybet
5.Atouba
6Pamerot
Edman
Mendes
Davis
Carrick
A.Reid
Dawson
Murphy
Huddlestone
Lennon
Routledge
Jenas
Rasiak
Davids
Berbatov
Bent
Young Peo
Tininio
Stalter
Zeigler
Zokora
Ekkoto
Boateng
Ghaly
Chimbonda
Malbranque
Bale
Kaboul
Rocha
Modric
Bentley
Corluka
Anlwick
Gomes
Woodgate
Hutton
Campbell

All of these are transfers In since 2004. This is a club which smacks of huge instability. No club has shelled out as much on players. It is also distinctly interesting that both Portsmouth (Mendes,Davis,Pamerot,Routledge) and Sunderland (Chimbonda,Malbranque,Tininio) have been capable of buying several Spurs players at a time.

They have made huge money, but have failed to instill stability with profligate spending. Once players are dropped, the only way is out.

Snake Plisken

I'm sure Martin Jol is laughing his Arse off in Hamburg tonight sitting pretty on top of the German League. We were crap tonight no leaders on the pitch waste of Money replacing Robinson with a crappy Grobbelaar imitation. Fair play to O'Neill and Villa for not selling Barry to liverpool pity Levy and Comolli didn't stand their ground over Keane! At least Robbie was a leader on the pitch. Also Ramos needs to play his strongest team for the premiership and not save players for the UEFA cup!
Very worried for Spurs this season

Helix

the fact that ramos is there nearly a year and still hasnt bothered learning english would worry me if i was a spurs fan, i cant see him being there much longer. needs 4 points from his next 2 or his gone imo

dantes74

the problem with my beloved spurs is the deadwood in the team, namely huddlestone (just so goddamn lazy), dawson (very error prone), jenas (just not good enough at the top level) and the biggest deadwood of them all bent (absolute rubbish, biggest waste of £16 million ever, we sold defoe and kept this muppet)

KevIRL

for helix

PHB

A club which is based entirely on making profit in the transfer market rather than anything else. The shocking actions in relation to Berbatov was just stupid on their part. Even if they got an extra 3 million for him, what was the point. They desperately looked for another striker that night, and had to settle for Campbell in the end.

They lack a decent central midfielder who can be the basis of their team. They need a defensive midfielder who can win the ball, and dictate simple play. They don't that, and as a result, their team is horribly unbalanced.

They still have unreal talent in the squad though, a cup win wouldn't surprise me at all.

vincenzo1975

The odds of Poyet becoming thye new newcastle boss must have increased after this game. I give the managment 3 games to turn it around.

Snake Plisken

dantes74 wrote: »

the problem with my beloved spurs is the deadwood in the team, namely huddlestone (just so goddamn lazy), dawson (very error prone), jenas (just not good enough at the top level) and the biggest deadwood of them all bent (absolute rubbish, biggest waste of £16 million ever, we sold defoe and kept this muppet)

Disagree over Jenas he was the best player on the pitch tonight! I'm beginning to think Ramos is the new Santini Maybe we should lose him and let Gus run the team!

Charlie

Tottenham are a bit like this at the moment

mike65

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I feel sorry for Jol

You have seen the Bundesliga table?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/germany_results/tables/default.stm

Martin Jol is a happy chappie I expect

Mike

leninbenjamin

mike65 wrote: »

You have seen the Bundesliga table?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/germany_results/tables/default.stm

Martin Jol is a happy chappie I expect

Mike

slightly OT, but what's the setup in Hamburg. is Jol the manager in control of everything or he is tantamount to the first team coach operating under the more usual DOF model?

jank

As mentioned before why are people surprised when spurs fall flat on their asses year on year. Its like they are trying to fool everyone in thinking they are good cause they splash out money on new players.
The London version of Newcastle.

And, of course i feel desperately for my nearest neighbors:D

Snake Plisken

Nah Spurs are not as much of a joke as Newcash are at the moment thank God

One Cold Hand

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Nah Spurs are not as much of a joke as Newcash are at the moment thank God

They're argueably a bigger mess at this particular moment in time.

Newky are 16th with 4 points.
Spurs are bottom with 1.

But I've no doubt that Spurs will improve.

Frisbee

Het-Field wrote: »

1.Brown
2.Defoe
3.Robinson
4.Naybet
5.Atouba
6Pamerot
Edman
Mendes
Davis
Carrick
A.Reid
Dawson
Murphy
Huddlestone
Lennon
Routledge
Jenas
Rasiak
Davids
Berbatov
Bent
Young Peo
Tininio
Stalter
Zeigler
Zokora
Ekkoto
Boateng
Ghaly
Chimbonda
Malbranque
Bale
Kaboul
Rocha
Modric
Bentley
Corluka
Anlwick
Gomes
Woodgate
Hutton
Campbell

All of these are transfers In since 2004.

You forgot Dos Santos
(who incidentally I thought was Spurs best player when he came on tonight)

DSB

Frisbee wrote: »

You forgot Dos Santos
(who incidentally I thought was Spurs best looking player when he came on tonight)

Ah now that shouldn't be relevant:P

therecklessone

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

They need to sort out their midfield. I feel sorry for Jol, if he could have used that Darren Bent money on a combative central midfielder and a defender or two, they could have been really pushing on.

Perhaps he shouldn't have asked that we sign Bent then? It was his idea after all, after Bent put 2 past Spurs at the Valley in Jol's 1st full season in charge. Indeed, if Jol had managed to get his head around the task of making Keane and Defoe work as a strike partnership instead of obsessing with the "big man/little man combo" the £16m might have been spent elsewhere.

Villain wrote: »

I dont agree Lennon and Bentley have the quality to deliver but no-one to finish it.

Lennon couldn't deliver pizza, and Bentley keeps getting played on the left by Ramos for some infuriating reason.

Adamcp898 wrote: »

If you buy a whole new team then you can't expect them to play well together instantly, still a team of individuals on the pitch and don't play like a team.

Good point, and we've done it every transfer window since Santini joined us.

Helix wrote: »

the fact that ramos is there nearly a year and still hasnt bothered learning english would worry me if i was a spurs fan

Ramos speaks English, he just doesn't like doing interviews with the Enlish press.

This season has been knocked off kilter for us by the drawn-out Berbatov transfer. Selling him wasn't the problem, allowing the saga to drag out until deadline day without having a replacement sown up was. Spurs should have done one of two things: given United a deadline to complete the deal (like Barry to Liverpool) or simply bought a striker out of the Keane/Sunderland trio transfer fees. Instead we did neither, we fcuked around over Pavlyuchenko and Arshavin for two months when we knew we would need to sign one of them in the end, and blustered over Berbatov but caved in the end.

It destabalised the squad, and left us short of options for the start of the season. I lay the blame for that mainly at Daniel Levy's door, with Damien Commoli responsible to a lesser extent.

I also have reservations about Ramos' team selections this season, last night he "rested" Bentley/dos Santos/Jenas/King and left us woefully exposed in the centre of midfield, and at CB. I cannot fathom how anyone can justify playing Michael Dawson given the last year of his career at Spurs, he is only marginally better than Titus Bramble...:( I also look at the Villa side that played tonight and with the greatest of respect there are a few players of limited ability there (Davies, Young, Reo-Coker) but the difference is that MOL knows their limitations and plays to their strengths. Villa are a very well organised side, right now I can't say that for Spurs.

In fairness to Ramos his coaching team have the players fitter (look at any performance during the Jol era to see the fatigue kick in around the 60min mark) and he is far more willing/able to adjust tactically as a game wears on than his predecessor. Now if he could only get his head around the idea that we should play our best XI as often as possible...:rolleyes:

Xavi6

I said it when they signed him - you just can't trust a Brazilian keeper.

That lad is gonna be at fault for more goals than Robinson ever was.

leninbenjamin

Xavi6 wrote: »

I said it when they signed him - you just can't trust a Brazilian keeper.

That lad is gonna be at fault for more goals than Robinson ever was.

that will be some feat. Robinson most have cost about 20 goals a year at least fo the team he pays with. at least.

Smegball

You can't blame the start on the team not gelling, look at Man City last season, nearly the same thing, completely different team and they started great.

Pepe LeFrits

therecklessone wrote: »

Lennon couldn't deliver pizza

hahah

Simply put, lack of continuity. Too many changes to personnel, management, tactics, line-ups, etc. That alone is the biggest hindrance to them and that needs to change (hur hur) if things are to improve.

One other important thing which PHB has highlighted is that they don’t have a central midfielder that they can build their game around, at least, not yet. Modric has made a slow start which I don’t think is particularly surprising, but I’m still convinced he will come good, as long as Spurs give him time. Even when he’s playing badly, his quality is apparent. Spurs really should be looking for a high energy, defensively disciplined, battling midfield player to bring out the best from their central midfield. It’d be of great benefit to the centre-backs too. Dawson isn’t great but Spurs nearly made 4th with him before and I think with a good partner and some protection he is decent.

Another striker is obviously required and a top class wide midfielder is missing - although perhaps Dos Santos can be that player in time.

So I guess to summarise, they need time, and to stop changing everything constantly.

Incidentally, on last night’s match – I thought it was more a case of Spurs being poor than Villa being good. Villa were well organised defensively but going forward they weren’t great. As the game went on Villa became less and less able to hold onto the ball, but they were disciplined and Spurs lacked imagination so they weren’t punished. I thought Reo-Coker and Agbonlahor in particular were very poor on the ball. Good work-rate but not much else. Still, a win at WHL is an excellent result for them.

JimiTime

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

So I guess to summarise, they need time, and to stop changing everything constantly.

+1
If i was a spurs fan, I'd try not be so anxious. There is huge transition happening. Morale must be at an all time low after the players seen Keane and Berbatov leave. 2 big personalities at the club. Then to a lesser extent, malbranque etc went out the door. Ramos obviously has it. What he did at Seville was great. he also won the CC last year with Spurs, beating Chelsea in the final. Give him time. Spurs are in transition, and i think fans need to get behind the team and the manager and realise they're not going to be an overnight sucess after losing arguably their 2 best players.

Drummerboy2

Levy is more interested in making money for the shareholders than strengthening the team. Perhaps he is planning to sell the club. I hope he does sell up.

Savman

therecklessone wrote: »

I also look at the Villa side that played tonight and with the greatest of respect there are a few players of limited ability there (Davies, Young, Reo-Coker) but the difference is that MOL knows their limitations and plays to their strengths.

Yeah, it's called "management"

Third_Echelon

Galvasean wrote: »

For the past few years we've heard the likes of Jamie Redknapp leading the array of voices crowing on about how Spurs are getting closer and closer to the top 4. The league table has said the exact opposite.
<snip>.

Bingo.. I was saying the exact same thing last night to my mates... I really don't understand the media over the past few years saying that Spurs had the best team outside the top 4 and were the most likely to break into the top 4. As you said, the stats don't show this...

2007/2008 -> 11th. 11 Wins (4 of those wins against teams that finished above them in the final table). No wins against 'the big 4'.

2006/2007 -> 5th (decent finish). 17 wins. (1 Win against the big 4. Chelsea).

2005/2006 -> 5th (decent finish). 18 wins. (no wins against the big 4).

2004/2005 -> 9th. 14 wins. (no wins against big 4). 3 wins against teams above them in the final table.

2003/2004 -> 14th. 13 wins. (no wins against big 4).


The key to beating the 'big 4' is to be regularly beating them... Not many teams are beating them regularly enough... but spurs sure ain't.


Quite clearly, watching the Villa game last night and what I have seen of Spurs so far this season, they are too soft up the middle. Defending is a shambles. Middle of the park has no steel...