Tottenham: Just what is happening to them?!

Dont be at yourself

Perhaps he shouldn't have asked that we sign Bent then? It was his idea after all, after Bent put 2 past Spurs at the Valley in Jol's 1st full season in charge. Indeed, if Jol had managed to get his head around the task of making Keane and Defoe work as a strike partnership instead of obsessing with the "big man/little man combo" the £16m might have been spent elsewhere.

I didn't know that. I was under the impression that transfers were being conducted by those upstairs.

That Bent transfer is bewildering in any case. That squad was really just one or two big players away from pushing Arsenal and Liverpool.

Snake Plisken

yeah and the above statistic says that we are going backwards again, also Jol didn't want Bent that was a Comolli/Levy decision Jol recognised the need strengthening in midfield but wasn't supported by Comolli as he was already eyeing up Ramos for the post, as Jol wasn't Comolli's man he was Frank Arnesen's man (its a great shame that Franky left us as I'm sure himself and Jol would have got us into the top 4)

Galvasean

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Bingo.. I was saying the exact same thing last night to my mates... I really don't understand the media over the past few years saying that Spurs had the best team outside the top 4 and were the most likely to break into the top 4. As you said, the stats don't show this...

2007/2008 -> 11th. 11 Wins (4 of those wins against teams that finished above them in the final table). No wins against 'the big 4'.

2006/2007 -> 5th (decent finish). 17 wins. (1 Win against the big 4. Chelsea).

2005/2006 -> 5th (decent finish). 18 wins. (no wins against the big 4).

2004/2005 -> 9th. 14 wins. (no wins against big 4). 3 wins against teams above them in the final table.

2003/2004 -> 14th. 13 wins. (no wins against big 4).

To stress the point even more in the 2005/6 season they missed out on 4th by two points (slipped on the last day of the season I might ad) with a goal difference of +15.
In 2006/7 they missed out on 4th place by 8 points and with a GD of +3.
In 2007/8 they missed out on 4th place by 30 points, although their GD increased to +5.

therecklessone

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

One other important thing which PHB has highlighted is that they don’t have a central midfielder that they can build their game around, at least, not yet. Modric has made a slow start which I don’t think is particularly surprising, but I’m still convinced he will come good, as long as Spurs give him time. Even when he’s playing badly, his quality is apparent. Spurs really should be looking for a high energy, defensively disciplined, battling midfield player to bring out the best from their central midfield. It’d be of great benefit to the centre-backs too. Dawson isn’t great but Spurs nearly made 4th with him before and I think with a good partner and some protection he is decent.

The thing is, while we never replaced Carrick adequately, the players we do have are better than Monday night's performance. I've been banging the Tom Huddlestone is too slow drum for quite a while now, but Jamie O'Hara has put in a good shift any time I've seen him play central (he's often used as a LB). I wouldn't have played Pavlyuchenko last night, I'd have played 4-5-1 with Zokora/O'Hara/Jenas in the middle, and Bent up top. Then take your pick from dos Santos, Bentley or Modric to support Bent.

We don't have a played capable of holding the midfield who is coveted by the top 4, but until we do identify a target we should be getting the best out of what we do have.

I'd happily take industry over flair right now, and let the new guys settle in a bit.

Oh, and Dawson had a good start at Spurs because he had a fit ledley King alongside him, and Carrick in front. Kinda proving you and PHB right.

herbieflowers

I think they lack a bit of bite and steel in the middle of the park tbh. and possibly having too many good individual players, lacking those who can knit things together. that said, they're pretty much a new side

kronsington

what's the deal with ramos not giving any english interviews? ive seen him give one or two when he first joined but it seems poyet is the main mouthpiece these days. he's been in the country longer than capello and scolari and theie english is pretty good at this stage.. just seems a little odd is all.

therecklessone

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I didn't know that. I was under the impression that transfers were being conducted by those upstairs.

The head coach has a say in who comes in, and in the case of Bent he was definitely the instigator of that move. Charlton took a 2 goal lead at the Valley through 2 Bent goals in season 2005/06 before we came back to win 3-2. Jol approached Levy and Comolli (who was in the job a month after replacing Frank Arnensen) to tell him he would like Bent at Spurs.

Spurs are supposed to have a four-man committee that oversees potential transfers, the head coach, the DOF, Daniel Levy and club secretary John Alexander. Levy and Alexander are there to assess the financial side of the deal, transfer fee/wages etc, but also look at the investment from a business point of view (transfer fee vs asset depreciation if you will). Jol did not run the scouting network, so usually was presented with a number of targets that he could decide to take or not, but he definitely had an input into the type of player we bought. Just look at the list of strikers we bought: Raziak, Mido, Bent...all capable of fulfilling the "big man" role in Jol's preferred front partnership (his obsession with combining a big man with a little man contributed to Defoe refusing to sign a new contract, as he couldn't displace Keane from the side no matter whether Keane was scoring or not, and so saw him off to Pompey)

Snake Plisken

therecklessone wrote: »

The head coach has a say in who comes in, and in the case of Bent he was definitely the instigator of that move. Charlton took a 2 goal lead at the Valley through 2 Bent goals in season 2005/06 before we came back to win 3-2. Jol approached Levy and Comolli (who was in the job a month after replacing Frank Arnensen) to tell him he would like Bent at Spurs.

Spurs are supposed to have a four-man committee that oversees potential transfers, the head coach, the DOF, Daniel Levy and club secretary John Alexander. Levy and Alexander are there to assess the financial side of the deal, transfer fee/wages etc, but also look at the investment from a business point of view (transfer fee vs asset depreciation if you will). Jol did not run the scouting network, so usually was presented with a number of targets that he could decide to take or not, but he definitely had an input into the type of player we bought. Just look at the list of strikers we bought: Raziak, Mido, Bent...all capable of fulfilling the "big man" role in Jol's preferred front partnership (his obsession with combining a big man with a little man contributed to Defoe refusing to sign a new contract, as he couldn't displace Keane from the side no matter whether Keane was scoring or not, and so saw him off to Pompey)

Looks like you believe the rubbish that was fed to the media by Levy & Comolli, Jol wanted a hard man for midfield, As for Defoe even when he got his chance he wasted more then he put away.

therecklessone

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Bingo.. I was saying the exact same thing last night to my mates... I really don't understand the media over the past few years saying that Spurs had the best team outside the top 4 and were the most likely to break into the top 4. As you said, the stats don't show this...

The two seasons where we had one manager for the entire season we finished 5th twice.

Judging the side against our peers, by taking results gained vs the top 4 out of the equation Spurs gained more points than any of the other 15 sides in 2005/06 (+9pts over Newcastle in 2nd) and 2006/07 (+3pts over Reading)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54103661&postcount=20

That would suggest we were the best of the rest, though not good/consistent enough against the top 4 sides to break into the CL places.

The other seasons you've highlighted all involved significant upheaval (and in the case of 2003/04 we had David Pleat as caretaker for 34 games )

therecklessone

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Looks like you believe the rubbish that was fed to the media by Levy & Comolli, Jol wanted a hard man for midfield, As for Defoe even when he got his chance he wasted more then he put away.

I rarely if ever base my comments on this message board on stories in the media.

My sources for the above account come from two very good friends of mine who travelled to Tel Aviv last year with me (along with Graham Roberts). One is BEN, who you will know if you post on any Spurs message board, and the other is a very good friend who I sit with at away games, and has contacts both in the media and at Spurs. I trust both of my friends before I trust what's printed on the back pages.

edit: I should also ask, who is scoring goals for fun at Fratton Park right now?

invincibleirish

I think Spurs last night were pretty mediocre, and fully expected Villa to beat them, but i dont think Spurs are a bad team just an unsettled one. It was Corluka & Pavluychenko's first game,Gomes, Bentley, Modric & Dos Santos only have played for Spurs a handful of times and looked as disjointed as you'd expect.

Them like Ramos are still finding their feet, need time to gel etc. but i fully expect Spurs to come good after a run of games, Not good enough to get near 4th to 6th but definitely top half of the table.

Don't sack Ramos!

therecklessone

invincibleirish wrote: »

Don't sack Ramos!

I don't believe we will, if for no other reason than I think Daniel Levy would have to fall on his sword as a result.

I do fear Ramos might walk away if the pressure becomes too intense though. I've questioned his team selection quite a bit, but I do have faith in his ability to get the team working again.

Snake Plisken

Interesting read on last nights situation from Sky Sports Spanish commentator Guillem Balague, he actually makes some sense.
http://www.guillembalague.com/blog_desp.php?id=76

Third_Echelon

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Interesting read on last nights situation from Sky Sports Spanish commentator Guillem Balague, he actually makes some sense.
http://www.guillembalague.com/blog_desp.php?id=76

The man talks sense and has an inside track in most big clubs, especially those with Spanish connections...

Third_Echelon

Interesting Article:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_4153686,00.html

Opta's break down Tottenham's year of Premier League woe. A 2008 that has seen them secure just five league victories.

It may seem premature to brand Spurs' year so far as a fully-fledged disaster, the team did pick up the League Cup in February after all, but the side's league form has been horrendous and threatens to undo all the positive work of Spanish tactician Juande Ramos.

As the table below shows, in 22 league games in 2008, Spurs have picked up a mere 23 points. Only fellow crisis club Newcastle have collected fewer than that.

Other worrying statistics for the White Hart Lane faithful include the fact that this is the club's worst start to a season since 1974-75 when they lost their opening four matches.

Furthermore, Tottenham have now gone six games without a win at home, something that has not happened since 1996.

Helix

they havent lost their first 4 thought? did they not draw against someone?

Sizzler

Honestly, how long has Ramos got?

They have a more than decent side, lets be honest.

Inquitus

Another utter disaster today, 2-0 away defeat to Pompey, who themselves have looked **** so far this season.

We have looked all over the place, this drama has turned into a full scale crisis. I am not one to call for a manager to go a few games into the season, so I won't, but Ramos doesn't seem to know what he's doing atm. The only worry is that in persisting with him, we may find ourselves in a nearly hopeless position after 12 games or so, which is the number of games I think he should be given to try and salvage this.

What are the odds on Ramos getting the chop?

~Rebel~

That spurs team is seriously lacking something. Seems to be noone to 'spur' them on tbh.

Lennon at least did look electric when he came on for the second half.

Charlie

Deleted User wrote: »

What are the odds on Ramos getting the chop?

Slim I would think. If he is to be sacked, then Commoli and Levy would need to pack their bags also, as he really is their man.

It wouldn't shock me greatly though if he walked by the end of the month if they are still churning out similar results.

String

Only player that showed like he wanted to play today for spurs was o hara

Charlie

Xavi6

Nice tits on yer wan! :pac:

Charlie

Xavi6 wrote: »

Nice tits on yer wan! :pac:

Indeed. Pity Gareth Bale is gheying the pic up on various levels.

Xavi6

Yeah there's two tits either side of her as well!

_blank_

Why was that picture posted in this thread?

Footballers with girls shocker.

estebancambias

Again too many idiots in the team..Zokora, Pav, Jenas, Bent, Dawson, Lennon, Bentley.

Modric will turn out to be only just above average but he needs a chance to adapt to the league.

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

I said it when they signed him - you just can't trust a Brazilian keeper.

That lad is gonna be at fault for more goals than Robinson ever was.

So after Crouch's today and the one against Villa, that's 2 in 6 games. Keep up the good work!

Charlie

Des wrote: »

Why was that picture posted in this thread?

Becasue I think Bale in that pic sums up everything that is wrong with Spurs at the moment. Flash dan, but very soft.

Pighead

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Becasue I think Bale in that pic sums up everything that is wrong with Spurs at the moment. Flash dan, but very soft.

I don't really understand this.

You do realise that the majority of Premiership players go out, wear flash clothes and get pictures taken with women? And that includes players from the top four clubs. Actually that especially includes players from the top four clubs. How come their clubs aren't in trouble?

Charlie

Pighead wrote: »

I don't really understand this.

You do realise that the majority of Premiership players go out, wear flash clothes and get pictures taken with women? And that includes players from the top four clubs. Actually that especially includes players from the top four clubs. How come their clubs aren't in trouble?

I didn't mean in a literal sense, more a metaphorical one.

estebancambias

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Gareth Bale is blessed he was a footballer. He looks like a monkey.

Pighead

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I didn't mean in a literal sense, more a metaphorical one.

I think you are talking out your jacksie mate.

Metaphorically speaking of course.

Fratton Fred

estebancambias wrote: »

Gareth Bale is blessed he was a footballer. He looks like a monkey.

Peter Crouch Interview

Interviewer "Peter, If you weren't a footballer, what do you think you would be"?

Peter Crouch "Probably a virgin"

Love that one.

cson

Yeah thats a good one from Crouchie alright.

Some bird he's tipping though :eek:

Defo wouldn't throw her outta the bed for eating crisps.

eZe^

Karma haunting Ramos, as much as I liked the guy, and as good a manager as he is, this is what he deserves.

Snake Plisken

Come back Big Martin Jol, I doubt he would actually, still can't believe Spurs fans thought we were crap under him, oh well some of us have no sense.
I don't think Ramos will go, rumours abound that Spurs are going to be sold on and when that happens then we will jetison Ramos, Levy and the ex Arse man Comolli.
This team played like Ireland under Staunton i.e. headless chicken. No leaders on the pitch at least when we had Keane he was shouting and bollocking players out of it, no one to do that now Its a pretty sad situation to be a Spurs fan at the moment

therecklessone

estebancambias wrote: »

Again too many idiots in the team..Zokora, Pav, Jenas, Bent, Dawson, Lennon, Bentley.

I've read some dunder-headed posts on this forum in the past ut that's up there with them.

Yes, the players are clearly idiots, whereas the collective minds of Hull and Stoke are all of Harvard and Yale standard. Or perhaps there is something else that explains some players of limited ability at other clubs managing to do more on the pitch than their levels of intelligence?

Perhaps coaching comes into it, perhaps confidence, perhaps playng in a side with other players that compliment their playing style, or God forbid having a game plan and sticking to it.

No, you're right, it's just that the Spurs players are stoopid...:rolleyes:

therecklessone

Xavi6 wrote: »

So after Crouch's today and the one against Villa, that's 2 in 6 games. Keep up the good work!

Does he get any credit for the string of saves he made in both games to keep us only 1 goal down before he made his mistakes? Or do people do more than watch 10mns of MOTD2 and decide a player is **** based on that?

If a goalkeeper has enough shots fired at him eventually he will concede a goal, whether through a mistake or not. I've seen enough of him to concluse that he's better at claiming balls into the box, better at commanding his box and better at shot stopping than his predecessor.

therecklessone

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Becasue I think Bale in that pic sums up everything that is wrong with Spurs at the moment. Flash dan, but very soft.

Perhaps we'd be better if we'd a picture of Bale doing a Guthrie on somebody and breaking their leg?

FFS charlie, it's a great soundbite but it's a bit much slating Bale when he's been one of our better performers. Maybe you're suffering from the MOTD syndrome as well, and just lashing out at anyone in a white shirt as a soft southern nancy boy?

Xavi6

therecklessone wrote: »

Does he get any credit for the string of saves he made in both games to keep us only 1 goal down before he made his mistakes? Or do people do more than watch 10mns of MOTD2 and decide a player is **** based on that?

If a goalkeeper has enough shots fired at him eventually he will concede a goal, whether through a mistake or not. I've seen enough of him to concluse that he's better at claiming balls into the box, better at commanding his box and better at shot stopping than his predecessor.

Well for starters I watched the whole game, and have seen Spurs on a number of occassions.

Unfortunately keepers are judged on mistakes, not the ten or twelve saves that proceeded it. He's no better than Robinson imo with regards to saves and mistakes ratio.

therecklessone

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well for starters I watched the whole game, and have seen Spurs on a number of occassions.

Unfortunately keepers are judged on mistakes, not the ten or twelve saves that proceeded it. He's no better than Robinson imo with regards to saves and mistakes ratio.

Robinson had 175 appearances for Spurs, Gomes has 8 to date. If that's your statistical sample I don't hold out much hope for you career in mathematics.

If we're comparing like with like, in the 1st 8 games of last season Robinson conceded 14 goals, and kept 2 clean sheets. Gomes has conceded 9 goals, and kept 2 clean sheets.Most would hold Robinson at fault for at least two of the goals he conceded, personally I'd have him at 5 or more..

Xavi6

therecklessone wrote: »

Robinson had 175 appearances for Spurs, Gomes has 8 to date. If that's your statistical sample I don't hold out much hope for you career in mathematics.

You'll be pleased to know that my career path has nothing to do with maths, though I never actually drew up any equations so you're criticism of my grasp of figures is flawed.

I said he has made 2 serious mistakes in 6 Premier League games. Is that incorrect?

If we're comparing like with like, in the 1st 8 games of last season Robinson conceded 14 goals, and kept 2 clean sheets. Gomes has conceded 9 goals, and kept 2 clean sheets.Most would hold Robinson at fault for at least two of the goals he conceded, personally I'd have him at 5 or more..

Look there are a lot of factors to take into consideration, i.e. quality of opposition, defenders etc. All I'm saying is I don't think Gomes is any better than Robinson and will turn out to be just as big a liability.

The signs certainly aren't good imo.

therecklessone

Xavi6 wrote: »

You'll be pleased to know that my career path has nothing to do with maths, though I never actually drew up any equations so you're criticism of my grasp of figures is flawed.

I said he has made 2 serious mistakes in 6 Premier League games. Is that incorrect?

No, I don't have an issue with that. I have an issue with the implication that he's no better than Robinson. As I've said above, he's better under a high all, has a better command of his box, will be beaten from distance less often and is as good if not a better instinctive shot stopper.

Fratton Fred

I fail to see what all the concern is about tbh.

Spurs have lost three or four class players in a short space of time, that would hurt any team.

They will come good, they just need to gel. The trouble is, all this bad press isn;t going to help their cause. I don;t think getting rid of Ramos will help either.

If it was up to me, i would give ramos until the end of November so that if need be, a new manager could come in and have a month to look at the squad before the transfer window, but i fully expect spurs to be mid table by then.

Pighead

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I fail to see what all the concern is about tbh.

Spurs have lost three or four class players in a short space of time, that would hurt any team.

They will come good, they just need to gel. The trouble is, all this bad press isn;t going to help their cause. I don;t think getting rid of Ramos will help either.

If it was up to me, i would give ramos until the end of November so that if need be, a new manager could come in and have a month to look at the squad before the transfer window, but i fully expect spurs to be mid table by then.

Must get at leats 7 points from the next 3 games against Hull, Stoke and Bolton as Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City are up after that.

matrim

therecklessone wrote: »

he's better under a high all

I've only seen him in the Villa game but he didn't seem to be good under a high ball in that game.

Villain

Surely Ramos can't last much more, loosing to Hull at home? Bottom with 2 points from 7 games??

estebancambias

nothing strikers. they seem to create a lot.