Tottenham: Just what is happening to them?!

SuprSi

estebancambias wrote: »

nothing strikers. they seem to create a lot.

This is the main problem. Selling all our quality strikers and not replacing them. Plenty of balls in the box, plenty of possession, but no killer pass, nobody who can produce that moment of magic, and critically, nobody who can be in the right position to put the ball into the net.

Savman

How about a little bit more respect for Hull City?
Winning at WHL and Emirates in the space of a week is no mean feat.

SantryRed

Wait til you see Geovanni's goal. Better than his one last week.

Sizzler

SantryRed wrote: »

Wait til you see Geovanni's goal. Better than his one last week.

This one

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/1632013/

I suspect Ramos is clearing his desk as we speak, kudos to Hull but sorry results not good enough for the talent in the Spurs squad.

Get your cash down @ a giveaway 4/5.

http://www.betting-portal.com/next-premiership-manager-to-be-sacked-the-sack-race-odds/

Villain

Sweet jesus that was some free kick

delija_sever029

Sheesh,when i remember we were discussing are they capable for top4....It seems next thread will be,Will Spurs manage not to relegate?....

Huge money invested and no results,i think its time they stop giving fortune for bad players,someone smart would make a dream team with the money they spent last few years

eZe^

And to think, he could be living it up with a genuine title chase and the CL if he stayed at Sevilla had he stayed, both parties have missed each other.

Sigh..

delija_sever029

Yep,Ramos is the biggest looser in all this

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Het-Field

The sheer overturn of players is to blame. Two years ago they signed Chimbonda, Zokora, Malbranque, and Berbatov. Only one of those remain at the club, and he rarely gets his game, in spite of his obvious talent.

In the past 2 years they have sold 3 players to one club at one time (Mendes, Pamerot, Davis to Pompey, Tininio,Chimbonda and Malbranque to Sunderland). They have also kept the likes of Fulham in playerss as they sell the likes of Danny Murphy and Paul Stalteri to them.

It is vital to keep a reasonably settled side. Remember, Manchester United have had Scholes, Giggs, and Gary Neville since 1993, Liverpool have been playing Gerrard and Carragher since 1998, while Chelsea have been playing Terry and Lampard since 2001. This does not include the amounts of players who have been in these squads since the early years of this decade

This weekend Lennon and Jenas were the longest serving players on the park, and they have only been at Whie Heart Lane for three years each. There is no cntinuity, hence there is no success

PHB

Look, there's lots of excuses here:

New players need time to gel
Massive turnover of players
Strikers aren't good enough

These however, are all reasons why Spurs shouldn't be yet challenging for top 4.
These are not reasons why Spurs should only have 2 points after 7 games.

However conducts transfer activity at WHL has an awful lot to answer for. Selling Berbatov last minute was stupid. He should have been sold earlier on and a replacement found.

At this stage, I don't know how Campbell hasn't been brought in, because Bent and Pav aren't doing the business.
Furthermore, there's some clear gaps in the squad, not least in the middle of the park, where they have no genuinely talented ball winner.
Whoever was in charge of the transfer business this summer ****ed up massively, massively.

If it was Ramos, he should be fired, flat out.
If it was Levy, Ramos should be allowed try work some magic. However, considering Levy's incompetence, I can't see that happening.

Either way, I'd be surprised to see Ramos in charge by the next match personally. International break should give a chance to find a decent replacement.

Who to get? I've no idea.

~Rebel~

PHB wrote: »

Who to get? I've no idea.

was thinking about this too recently, Frank Rijkaard perhaps?

PHB

~Rebel~ wrote: »

was thinking about this too recently, Frank Rijkaard perhaps?

Spurs are a bit below him I would have thought.
They need somebody English imo. I'd think the most obvious target would be Moyes if they could get him. The best English manager out there.

Galvasean

SantryRed wrote: »

Wait til you see Geovanni's goal. Better than his one last week.

I disagree. Last week he created space and scored from open play. Not taking anything away from the free kick mind. So, Geo for Goal of the Month?

~Rebel~

PHB wrote: »

Spurs are a bit below him I would have thought.
They need somebody English imo. I'd think the most obvious target would be Moyes if they could get him. The best English manager out there.

id say that too, but at the same time, there aren't really any big jobs going, and i could see him being attracted by working with the likes of their attacking players like Modric, Bentley, Dos Santos (again), Pav and Lennon. In theory they have some great attacking players who could fit in with his philosophy of the game, though as you said, he'd need to find a ball winner and leader.

All the same i wouldn't expect it, but its a possibility that might suit both parties.

Sizzler

PHB wrote: »

They need somebody English imo. I'd think the most obvious target would be Moyes if they could get him. The best English manager out there.

Moyes is Scottish

estebancambias

i don't think moyes would be happy being called english.

Roy Keane perhaps?

yabadabado

dont think ramos will be sacked but i could see him walk away. david moyes would be an excellent choice but i think he would look to have complete control over transfers ,not sure levy would let that.if ramos goes i think levy and comolli should follow him

Charlie

PHB wrote: »

Who to get? I've no idea.

This bloke is meant to be decent

delija_sever029

charlie mchugh wrote: »

This bloke is meant to be decent

has 5-1-1 in Bundesliga and hold 1st place with Hamburg

roryc

wow that was a stunning free kick...

PHB

Sizzler wrote: »

Moyes is Scottish

Apologies to Moyes and the Scottish nation

Snake Plisken

I say sack the board, you can't sell a top strike force like Keano Barbs & Defoe and replace them with your 4th choice striker a jaded player who can't speak english and a player who was off to Stoke or back to Hull on loan for the season.

Oh I wish we had Big Martin Jol back now

btw did anyone see Holy Comolli and Levy in the stands on TV, Levy's body was leaning away from Holy as if to say its his fault I'm not going to take the hit on this one.

One Cold Hand

Why is it always Poyet that speaks to the press? Why doesn't Ramos give post-game interviews?

Xavi6

Cause he can't speak English (well)?

estebancambias

he dont speak the english.

therecklessone

He speaks perfect English, he doesn't want to speak to the press.

Villain

therecklessone wrote: »

He speaks perfect English, he doesn't want to speak to the press.

Really?? He must not like talking to players then either because I have seen Poyet translate instructions to subs coming on several times??

therecklessone

Villain wrote: »

Really?? He must not like talking to players then either because I have seen Poyet translate instructions to subs coming on several times??

By translate do you mean Ramos says something to Poyet, then Poyet repeats in English to player, or is it jus that you've seen Poyet give the player his instructions before entering the pitch? Chris Hughton used to give the instructions under Martin Jol, and we know Jol speaks English.

I've two mates met Ramos during the week in Poland, both said his English was fine.

Villain

therecklessone wrote: »

By translate do you mean Ramos says something to Poyet, then Poyet repeats in English to player,

Yes exactly can't remember what game it was but jenas was coming on and Ramos said something to Poyet and was pointing around the pitch giving instructions and then Poyet did the same to Jenas, defo looked like he was translating for him.

pesireland

worst decision imo was getting rid of Martin Jol, he was/is a very good manager, but they never gave him the time to correct a poor start to last season

jaykay74

pesireland wrote: »

worst decision imo was getting rid of Martin Jol, he was/is a very good manager, but they never gave him the time to correct a poor start to last season

Once Spurs starting talking to Ramos while Jol was still manager his position was untenable so don't think Jol would have turned it around at all. Its kinda funny with all the effort that went into getting Ramos in the first place.

Still can't get over all the effort that went into squeezing the last drop out of the Berba transfer without having a replacement lined up. The Berbatov transfer looked likely from a long way out.

Boggles

I think it is very simple what is happening Spurs, if you sell your international strike force trio of Keane, Berbatov and Defoe you will struggle. Spurs were never defensively strong always relying on their attacking strengths.

Stats illustrate my point better, in the last 4 seasons

Goals Scored: 223
Goals Conceded: 194

You don't replace those goals you get relegated.

Charlie

Boggles wrote: »

I think it is very simple what is happening Spurs, if you sell your international strike force trio of Keane, Berbatov and Defoe you will struggle. Spurs were never defensively strong always relying on their attacking strengths.

Stats illustrate my point better, in the last 4 seasons

Goals Scored: 223
Goals Conceded: 194

You don't replace those goals you get relegated.

Entering into a stats war with a Spud, you do know you have ensured that this thread will be broken by the hour.

Burial

I just thought it was obvious losing your strikers would make you dire in attack... Besides, They just really need to gel together as a team atm. I don't think getting rid of Ramos for Venables would be a good idea...

therecklessone

Burial wrote: »

I don't think getting rid of Ramos for Venables would be a good idea...

I agree, I just don't think Ramos has it in him to turn what he does have at his disposal around. I hate saying that, and if we had even a few more points under our belt I'd want him given time, but I really can't see that team battling for him, whether he's lost the dressing or whatever.

I can take being beaten, but I was at yesterday's game and to say there was no game plan is an understatement...the movement off the ball was atrocious, Hull pressured us in possession but were helped by there being virtually no outlet once the player on the ball looked for a white shirt. Confidence is low, not helped by some truly baffling team selections (and substitutions).

Fcuk knows who will be able to sort it out though

mike65

El Tel would be "upstairs" I think, if Ramos can speak English then maybe he should speak to the media instead of hiding behind Poyet.

Mike

Boggles

mike65 wrote: »

El Tel would be "upstairs" I think, if Ramos can speak English then maybe he should speak to the media instead of hiding behind Poyet.

Mike

Haha, I guarantee if you had led the team to there worst start in 80 odd years you would be saying "No Speeka Da Inglish" too.

Actually are the managers not contracted to speak to Sky after every match, and if they don't without good reason don't they have to explain themselves?

Charlie

Its a tough conundrum all right.

I think a big part of the problem as to whether Ramos is pushed or not, is that the bottom half of the table is looking so much stronger than usual. I really think this season could be one where you'll need 44+ pts to stay up (like when West Ham went down) whereas last season, 36 was good enough.

At this stage, Spurs (as well as my own Newcastle) need to pick up every point going. If getting rid of Ramos is what is required to enable this, than so be it, even if it does condemn Spurs to another period of 'transition', because the alternative is far far worse.

The only problem though is who do they recruit?

cson

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Its a tough conundrum all right.

I think a big part of the problem as to whether Ramos is pushed or not, is that the bottom half of the table is looking so much stronger than usual. I really think this season could be one where you'll need 44+ pts to stay up (like when West Ham went down) whereas last season, 36 was good enough.

At this stage, Spurs (as well as my own Newcastle) need to pick up every point going. If getting rid of Ramos is what is required to enable this, than so be it, even if it does condemn Spurs to another period of 'transition', because the alternative is far far worse.

The only problem though is who do they recruit?

Got it in one there. Hull, Stoke and WBA and the rest of the bottom clubs look a lot tougher than usual. I'd say its going to be very close as to who goes down at the end of the year - similar to the year WBA, Norwich, Palace and Soton all had it to play for on the last day.

Contrary to what most people would think, as an Arsenal fan I'd hate to see Spurs go down. I love the derby games. One man who could prolly pull you out of the mire handy enough is 'Arry, although he's building a good team at Pompey and I don't think he'd leave.

Dunno if this has been said here already but I think that Carling Cup win really masked what would have been a poor season otherwise. They finished with ~45pts iirc which is 20 less than the previous two seasons when they were pushing us all the time.

God knows what would have happened if they'd gone for the roast beef instead 2 years ago :eek:

therecklessone

cson wrote: »

Dunno if this has been said here already but I think that Carling Cup win really masked what would have been a poor season otherwise. They finished with ~45pts iirc which is 20 less than the previous two seasons when they were pushing us all the time.

At the risk of incurring charlie's wrath, it's worth pointing out the team's form up to and just after the Carling Cup final wasn't that bad, 28pts from 17 games and more than a few decent performances (unlucky to lose 2-1 at the Emirates with Keane missing a peno, very unlucky not to beat United at WHL) If that points tally lasted the whole season, we'd finish with 62pts.

In addition, the squad Ramos was working with was largely unchanged from the one inherited from Jol (Hutton and Woodgate arrived towards the end of that sequence, and defoe left) though he did introduce O'Hara and Cerny to the first XI, and made more use of Tainio (also employed Chimbonda at CB in King's absence)

I think the turning point was the penalty defeat in Eindhoven to knock us out of the UEFA Cup, after that we managed only 2 wins and 11pts from 10 games. Either heads dropped, or players felt that they didn't need to bother as we'd secured European football and we were fairly certain we'd not be relegated, which in itself is an indictment of the attitude that prevailed at the club.

Now Ramos has a squad he has had a large input into (with the exception of his forward line), and one that he has pared down significantly, up to the point of not issuing squad numbers to a number of former first teamers (Rocha, Boateng, Stalteri, and Ghaly are all still on the books)...

KevIRL

Things arent all bad for Spurs

cson

therecklessone wrote: »

Now Ramos has a squad he has had a large input into (with the exception of his forward line), and one that he has pared down significantly, up to the point of not issuing squad numbers to a number of former first teamers (Rocha, Boateng, Stalteri, and Ghaly are all still on the books)...

Still being paid?

Jesus thats madness.

homergriffin

I know they sold big but were they the highest spenders during the summer?

Mr Alan

nope, that was Villa i think (although Citys late spurge might have changed that)

therecklessone

Mr Alan wrote: »

nope, that was Villa i think (although Citys late spurge might have changed that)

According to soccerbase.com it's a toss up between Spurs and City

Modric £16.5m
Bentley £15m
Pavlyuchenko £12m (reported by soccerbase as £13.8m)
Corluka £8.5m
Gomes £8.5m (reported as £7.8m)
dos Santos £4.7m

About £65m give or take a couple of £100k

City is around the £65m mark as well, depending on what (if at all) they spent on Zabaleta.

Villa c. £45m spent.

Charlie

therecklessone wrote: »

According to soccerbase.com it's a toss up between Spurs and City

Modric £16.5m
Bentley £15m
Pavlyuchenko £12m (reported by soccerbase as £13.8m)
Corluka £8.5m
Gomes £8.5m (reported as £7.8m)
dos Santos £4.7m

About £65m give or take a couple of £100k

City is around the £65m mark as well, depending on what (if at all) they spent on Zabaleta.

Villa c. £45m spent.

Fook, that's alot for a goalkeeper with no EPL experience. No?

therecklessone

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Fook, that's alot for a goalkeeper with no EPL experience. No?

On a general note, I don't think the lack of PL experience is a bar to paying the asking price...would you say no to Buffon for that price? Casillas? I'm not comparing him to them in any way, just examples.

Xavi6

I would've said no to Gomes at that price....

One Cold Hand

Mr Alan wrote: »

nope, that was Villa i think (although Citys late spurge might have changed that)

Villa were one of the biggest NET spenders, ie they sold pretty much no one.

Spurs probably broke about even, did they?