The New Lansdowne Road

DWCommuter

WhatadayDerek_ wrote: »

I agree I think they did a top notch job considering.
I'm glad they did'nt leave the north end open and unfinished like croke park which was very possible considering the major restriction that was on hand. Good job Paddy James..yeah right!!!:D

Can the mods examine this post. Its clearly a troll attempting a very unproductive dig. The user name and join date are bordering on a literal attempt to get personal.

I can explain in PM.

As for WhatadayDerek..... are you really that bored?

citycentre

WhatadayDerek_ wrote: »

I agree I think they did a top notch job considering.
I'm glad they did'nt leave the north end open and unfinished like croke park which was very possible considering the major restriction that was on hand.

So does anyone really think that about 16 rows of seats that we have topped off with a massive almost vertical wall, (the top half of which seems to be clad in solid panelling as opposed to the clear/translucent stuff used elsewhere from what I've seen) is any less visually obtrusive or causes any less shadowing of the properties to the north than a decently scaled stand at the northern end with a semi - normal roof would have?

From what I have seen seating up to about the height of the second tier on the east and west stands could have easily been provided (with the attendant reduction in height at the southern end that this would cause) with little additional overshadowing or affect on the height of the structure at this end. Even if they had built the seating up to the height of the old concrete terrace that existed before the development it would have been an improvement.

The stadium wouldnt be any bigger in capacity terms but it would be better balanced and would have much more chance of having some sort of atmosphere with the pitch actually surrounded by the crowd rather than a blank wall of cladding at one end...

Aesthetics aside, at least Croke Park has 13,000 people enclosing the northern end of the pitch. I'd take that any day over the aviva bus shelter...

Sorry to go on and on about it - it'll be grand, I just find it really frustrating that something potentially fantastic has been so thoroughly compromized by what looks to me simply like a lazy design decision.

dRNk SAnTA

I think it will be cool to be able to see the city from inside the stadium. If only we had a decent skyline! It might not be ideal but I think it's a great looking stadium.

WhatadayDerek_

DWCommuter wrote: »

Can the mods examine this post. Its clearly a troll attempting a very unproductive dig. The user name and join date are bordering on a literal attempt to get personal.

I can explain in PM.

As for WhatadayDerek..... are you really that bored?

What exactly are you raving here?
Who am I making a literal attempt to get personal with?
I think someone may have a little too much time on their hands..
I'm not sure whats on your screen but I was discussing the new stadium!

Poster King

spacetweek wrote: »

As for buying the houses and extending the stadium, what part of "It's really hard to buy up and destroy an entire street" do all of you people not understand?

I think Thomond Park managed this while developing the new stadium. I think they managed to buy up about 10 houses and demolish them.

The IRFU already own many of the houses adjacent to the north end of the ground and are trying to buy the rest. They also won many of the houses on Lansdowne Road east of the railway. So I think buying up an entire street is quite possible given the will and the money.

However, this is a complete red herring because one of the main reasons for the limited size of the stadium was that the IRFU simply could get permission for any stadium with a capacity over 50,000, and it was not due to the size of the structure, but to do with getting that many people in and out of the ground and the disruption it would cause the the local residents.

If memory serves (I do not have time to look up the paperwork on this), the IRFU tried for a stadium of 65,000 and proposed to rotate the pitch 90 degrees, but all their efforts were spurned by powerful local residents associations and objections by influential locals and other organisations.

I think this was a great shame. I think with improved ground access, that 65,000 people could have been been gotten in and out of the area with no more disruption than the previous 52,000 max. (Yes, I believe that this was the capacity before new regulations forced them to keep numbers on there terraces down). Access to the gound has already been improved by making an entrance off Shelbourne road by demolishing a house.

I agree that 50,000 is too small and I agree that the North end of the stand looks silly, and that there will be restricted view in many seats due to roof design problems, but overall I think it will be a great stadium, great facilities, great atmosphere (Croke Park too big for rugby pitch - too far from action).

I can't wait for first proper game (the makey-uppy interpro in August will be a silly affair in my view)

Clanket

DWCommuter wrote: »

Can the mods examine this post. Its clearly a troll attempting a very unproductive dig. The user name and join date are bordering on a literal attempt to get personal.

I can explain in PM.

As for WhatadayDerek..... are you really that bored?

WhatadayDerek_ wrote: »

What exactly are you raving here?
Who am I making a literal attempt to get personal with?
I think someone may have a little too much time on their hands..
I'm not sure whats on your screen but I was discussing the new stadium!

Have to agree. What exactly is so personal about his post?

Talk about over-reacting.....

Kristian_

Lets hope it will have a great atmosphere!
Looking forward to seeing it finished now, a few more weeks should do it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag_XHoyr_uw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3AmUuw3mXo

Clanket

Nice videos. Wonder do they have footage right from the beginning - the demolition of the old stadium , through to completion. Would be a good documentary

spacetweek

Daysha wrote: »

Aviva written in the seats?!? Ugh.

Before I clicked through I thought it was going to be written on each seat. In fact it's only visible from the air and this type of thing is commonplace worldwide.

donvito99

Kristian_ wrote: »

Lets hope it will have a great atmosphere!
Looking forward to seeing it finished now, a few more weeks should do it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag_XHoyr_uw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3AmUuw3mXo

Have to say from looking at those videos it looks like they've really kept the atmosphere of the old Lansdowne ie. proximity to pitch. Should be great!

Bluetonic

donvito99 wrote: »

Have to say from looking at those videos it looks like they've really kept the atmosphere of the old Lansdowne ie. proximity to pitch. Should be great!

Were you really expecting there to be more space between the pitch and stands given the size of the site?

irishdub14

Theres new pics of the stadium on their site, all the soil is down and most of the seats are down, looks pretty great!
www.lrsdc.ie/gallery

Kristian_

I read the following piece earlier today, some of you may have come across it before, but I thought i'd post it anyway.

Creating unique geometry at Lansdowne Road Stadium
30 January 2009
Why concrete is Buro Happold’s material of choice

Geoff Werran, project director, and Fergus McCormick, structural engineering leader, of Buro Happold describe the concrete works at the new Aviva (Lansdowne Road) Stadium in Dublin.

The Aviva Stadium (previously Lansdowne Road) has a long and proud sporting history. The oldest international rugby ground in the world, it had seen many developments since its beginnings, but it was recognized for some time that it no longer provided the requirements of an international sporting arena. Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, a joint venture between the IRFU and the FAI, was established to redevelop the stadium into a world class sporting facility.

The chosen design for the redevelopment is the work of multi-national engineering consultants Buro Happold and international architects, HOK Sports, working with Scott Tallon Walker.

The new Aviva Stadium is the first truly site responsive stadium of its kind in the world. Its form, mass, materials and aspect are defined by the site and its surrounds. The proposed stadium consists of a continuous curvilinear shaped stand enclosing all four sides of the ground. The south, east and west stands all have four tiers of seating with the majority of the spectators in the desirable side locations of the pitch. On the north side there is only one tier, as the stadium comes down dramatically in height to minimize the impact of the building on the adjoining neighbourhoods.

The design is a state-of-the-art modern stadium, which will have an all seated capacity of 50,000. All seating will covered by the roof.

Site works on the stadium are substantially complete and work on the roof structure and glazing has recently commenced. Buro Happold delivered a full structural engineering service to the project including full reinforcement detailing and scheduling, and the rest of this article describes the uses of concrete within the project.

Stadium structural design and use of concrete

The form of the stadium quickly evolved to the curved one whose shape is already seen on site. This form placed floor areas and concourse widths in accordance with functional performance. In detailed design, working using parametric software, the buildings sections and plan were optimized. An additional key feature in developing the sleek design with a moderate overall height for economy was slim floor-to-floor dimensions.

It was clear to us as designers that the fluid geometries and shallow storeys were best suited to being mostly constructed with a concrete frame.

The suspended floors are generally in-situ flat slabs spanning generally up to around 8m to 10m, but with variable cantilevers at the building edges of up to 4m. Pre-stressed concrete floor solutions are always considered, and as a practice, we have extensive experience of their design and construction, but complexities of stadium mean they are difficult to deliver easily and economically in Europe.

Columns are in situ and range in shape from circular, square, rectangular to the feature blade columns at the edge of the building, whose geometry and elevation, illustrate and help display the dramatic form of the building.

The seating tiers are generally formed of conventional precast concrete units, but for large areas of the lower tier, an insitu solution was developed with a slimmer overall depth to enable better space usage below the tier whilst maintaining ground floor construction above the high water table.

Precast seating tier units at lower tier, premium tier and box level are supported by concrete rakers. As with the lower tier, detailed considerations resulted in Buro Happold delivering both precast and in situ concrete solutions. After the appointment of the main contractor, John Sisk, collaborative workshops between the design and construction team explored and evaluated the solutions in the light of specialist sub-contractor preference. The design solution remained with the exception of some premium rakers which were revised from in-situ to precast to help trim time from the programme.

In addition to the major frame of the stadium, the project has included a double storey concrete basement for plant and attenuation constructed below the water table.

Concrete finishes

Specification of the finishes by Buro Happold followed a detailed study of the function and visibility of every wall, column, floor and beam surface. At tender, all surfaces were defined as being formed or unformed, visible or non-visible, requiring patterned formwork or not. The finish type for unformed surfaces was defined according to whether a further architectural finish would be used and the requirement for the form type: steel, ply or GRP was specified. Outline requirements for the board patterning were set-out and drawn.

Post-contract, the design team and construction team worked closely to ensure the project requirements were understood by each party before the contractor proposed form layouts for all of the works. These were reviewed by the design team, in a proactive and positive practical relationship with the contractor. These processes have helped deliver finished concrete patterning arrangements of excellent control and quality.

For balanced reasonable economic design, stadia inherently involve extensive unfinished surfaces. The project team on the Aviva Stadium have embraced the philosophy of delivering maximum appearance and quality to the exposed concrete face of the building, using all the subtleties and tools available along with the talents and experience of the personnel involved.

Site works

Significant site works engineered by Buro Happold have included the demolition of the former stadium West stand over the DART and the creation of a new rail corridor integrated within the overall development next to the stadium. This was constructed over a series of highly programmed Bank Holiday rail possessions, with a precast solution designed by Buro Happold to enable rapid installation.

At the North of the site, Buro Happold proposed a realignment, new structure and site sequence methodology for the Swan Culvert. This was agreed with Dublin Council as a required and necessary improvement. The new sewer portions are formed of pre-cast segments.

Conclusion

The application of knowledge and experience of Buro Happold’s stadia expertise helped create the design for this complex project. A key part of this has been exploiting the potential and full variety of techniques of concrete design, detailing and construction. Since award, the construction is on programme. This is a tribute to many things: the skills of the design team; the energies and talents of the construction team, which embraced the philosophies of the solution and aspirations of the client for a world-class building; and an understanding client and project management team who have linked the various elements together – with great teamwork between all three.

donvito99

Bluetonic wrote: »

Were you really expecting there to be more space between the pitch and stands given the size of the site?

Yes.

etchyed

murpho999 wrote: »

I really don't understand the begrudgery on this thread

There hasn't been any begrudgery. That word can't be used as a catch-all for negativity by Irish people. Look it up.

orourkeda

All we need now is a team worth paying in to watch.

crushproof

orourkeda wrote: »

All we need now is a team worth paying in to watch.

Yeah I definately don't want to see one of the top 5 rugby sides in the world or our soccer team taking on top class opposition such as Russia and Argentina. :rolleyes: Get real.

At least with you not going there'll be one more ticket available for true fans.

The stadium is looking fantastic at the moment, can't wait to see it once the grass has grown. Pity about the terrace but sure what can you do, we finally have a revamped Lansdowne and a real home for the Boys in Green!

Kristian_

orourkeda wrote: »

All we need now is a team worth paying in to watch.

A bit harsh..where have you been!?

crushproof wrote: »

Yeah I definately don't want to see one of the top 5 rugby sides in the world or our soccer team taking on top class opposition such as Russia and Argentina. :rolleyes: Get real.

At least with you not going there'll be one more ticket available for true fans.

Would agree with this, it's always special to go to an Irish international.

I've been lucky enough to visit a few stadiums in Europe.
Allianz arena in Munich, was incredible in every way.
You could really feel the passion flowing through the stadium.

I truly hope the new Lansdowne Aviva has that grip factor on matchday

Bluetonic

Kristian_ wrote: »

A
I've been lucky enough to visit a few stadiums in Europe.
Allianz arena in Munich, was incredible in every way.
You could really feel the passion flowing through the stadium.

Interesting that they had a green field site to work with and didn't have to make compromises in design.

rainbowdash

From the air it looks like a cross between a urinal and a toilet seat.

Clanket

Bluetonic wrote: »

Interesting that they had a green field site to work with and didn't have to make compromises in design.

Not that interesting

Bluetonic

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

Not that interesting

It is to me.

dRNk SAnTA

Bluetonic wrote: »

Interesting that they had a green field site to work with and didn't have to make compromises in design.

And there are downsides to greenfield sites. I, for one, would not trade another 20,000 seats for a stadium in Abbotstown. Having fans mingle in bars before the game gives a huge boost to the match atmosphere, especially if its a late afternoon or evening kickoff. In Abbotstown they'd be mingling in a carpark.

Bluetonic

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

And there are downsides to greenfield sites. I, for one, would not trade another 20,000 seats for a stadium in Abbotstown. Having fans mingle in bars before the game gives a huge boost to the match atmosphere, especially if its a late afternoon or evening kickoff. In Abbotstown they'd be mingling in a carpark.

The atmosphere in Munich doesn't seem to be affected tonight considering the stadium is pretty much in the middle of nowhere outside Munich, on a motorway network half way between the airport and city.

For the record the atmosphere in Croker has been dire for 90% of the football games, but I do take your point and agree with it partially.

Guy:Incognito

I know this was most likely covered in the begining and since but when you look at the site from above was there not scope to turn the pitch 90 degrees and fit it that way with full stands the whole way round?

DWCommuter

Stekelly wrote: »

I know this was most likely covered in the begining and since but when you look at the site from above was there not scope to turn the pitch 90 degrees and fit it that way with full stands the whole way round?

Objected to at planning stage. Think existing RFC on site.

DWCommuter

Bluetonic wrote: »

The atmosphere in Munich doesn't seem to be affected tonight considering the stadium is pretty much in the middle of nowhere outside Munich, on a motorway network half way between the airport and city.

For the record the atmosphere in Croker has been dire for 90% of the football games, but I do take your point and agree with it partially.

Unfortunately there are still those amongst us that think match atmosphere is dependent on a street load of boozers in close proximity to the ground. Considering how easily the Irish people have rolled over and died in the face of change elsewhere in society, I find the notion that a greenfield site would be detrimental to stadium atmosphere, to be hysterically funny, irrelevant and mired in a traditional mindset.

For example. The best thing about the GAA is tradition. While the worst thing about the GAA is tradition.

Go figure.

Kristian_

DWCommuter wrote: »

Unfortunately there are still those amongst us that think match atmosphere is dependent on a street load of boozers in close proximity to the ground. Considering how easily the Irish people have rolled over and died in the face of change elsewhere in society, I find the notion that a greenfield site would be detrimental to stadium atmosphere, to be hysterically funny, irrelevant and mired in a traditional mindset.

For example. The best thing about the GAA is tradition. While the worst thing about the GAA is tradition.

Go figure.

:mad:
You need to go figure me thinks!

Poster King

Stekelly wrote: »

I know this was most likely covered in the begining and since but when you look at the site from above was there not scope to turn the pitch 90 degrees and fit it that way with full stands the whole way round?

Taken from my post of 25/03/2010

However, this is a complete red herring because one of the main reasons for the limited size of the stadium was that the IRFU simply could get permission for any stadium with a capacity over 50,000, and it was not due to the size of the structure, but to do with getting that many people in and out of the ground and the disruption it would cause the the local residents.

If memory serves (I do not have time to look up the paperwork on this), the IRFU tried for a stadium of 65,000 and proposed to rotate the pitch 90 degrees, but all their efforts were spurned by powerful local residents associations and objections by influential locals and other organisations.

When I have some time I will try and pull all the relevant info on the planning and objections, unless someone else already has it handy.

Idbatterim

Could they not have paid the residents off? no doubt a good pay off would have shut them up!