am i alone???

keane=cock

wel folks its looks like all us spurs fans have been fooled yet again. after the summer sales of most of our good players and few signings we are bottom of the table with a solitary point!

now, last season skip ledley king said we had the best strikers in europe. 6 months later defoe was gone and keane n berbatov followed in the "spurs summer sale". we were left with bent n then we all jumped on the hype of what one good tournament can do for a player, pavlenchenko.
ramos is supposed to be our saviour. why then did he start a man i have yet to see make a sucessful cross in his whole career(lennon) when he spent millions on two wingers bentley n giovanni dos santos?

am i the only person who believes ramos doent know what he is doing except ruining my life. he sold most of the regulars from last season and has not replaced them. jenas was prob our best player last season n he got dropped against villa! bentley n giovani sat on the bench alongside "berbatovs replacement" campbell and so was a player ramos rated so highly last season he gave him the job of man marking ronaldo and fabregas jamie o hara.

im all for team building but that takes time you dont sell half you squad and expect to start winning things straight off. i dont know how ramos ever won a match as a manager never mind a trophy. i strongly believe martain jol won us that cup last season as he built the squad that won that cup bar woodgate and hutton who signed under ramos or more likely comolli.

am i alone spurs fans or do others agree?????

keane=cock

COME ON LADS!!! i set this up to hear if spurs fans agree or disagree with my opinions!!

dont just read reply an dtell me if im spot on or just talking sh1t??

kmick

Spurs problem for eons has been in the 6 inches between the ears. When Ramos arrived we heard of a new regime - fat boys were out, underachievers were under the spotlight. Being super fit and eating well were in. This was all part of the mental game - being prepared, being fitter than your opponents etc.

Now lets give him some time to bed down the current players. Every year its the same **** with managers. They are there a wet week and people want them out. Lets give him 2 or 3 seasons. Look how long it took to turn Liverpool around under Benitez.

I fear if Ramos gets fired we will be relegated this season.

keane=cock

why give ramos time when mj was getting the bullet when spurs were pushing for champs league not mid table and survival.

your talking about brains!
can you justify paying all that money for 2 wingers and leave them on the bench while a total waster who can only run plays in lennon???

he is talking of bringin the team forward. the way to do that is hold onto your best player not sell them.
remember carrick??? remember keane?? remember berbatov???

time to face the music i fear spurs are gonna be a selling club and who wants to sign for a team that will win nothing????????

ramos won cups with seville but he is changing too much too soon and relegation is a serious threat.
thanks for the reply though

twilight_singer

Carrick, Keane and Berbatov all wanted to leave we had no option but to get rid really.
Dont agree sacking the manager is the answer, but hopefully after last nights performance he will have wised up to some of their abilities.
The clubs transfer policy over the last few seasons has been proven to be ineffective. Buying young players with a resale value is not the way to go. We need experienced pros, leaders. An Edgar Davids type signing.

keane=cock

agreed that a player who doesnt want to play he should leave but the main reason them players left was to play champs league and in keane n berbatov they could have been promised it i think if mj was left to do his thing. at the start of last season it was well documented that ramos was tapped up for the spurs post.

some of the signings have been ropey but they cant replace the good players with average players or worse. it will not progress the club only hurt the club.

John W

I agree with you both - I don't think sacking the manager will help right now, and he will need more time with the current squad. BUT, I do agree, he needs to learn quick from his mistakes and last night was one of them!

The starting lineup was atrocious, and the replacements that came on were played out of position (again).

Learn from the Chelski game Ramos - I remember thinking at the start of the game, we will probably loose, but at least that is a good team, that is probably the team I would have picked for this game - and we draw!!

I know he thinks he has to rotate to have a fit squad for cups etc, but the accommodation of King has to stop! It is killing our defence - AND WIN the game first, THEN rest players - as we saw he lost on both fronts last night, we lost the game and he had to bring on Bentley, DS and Jenas anyway - I am almost sure if he would have started with that team we would have got at the very least a draw - both of their goals we mistakes by us.

Cork Spurs

Think you might be missing one point on this issue,should he go or stay?

I think he has already made up his mind that his future does not lie with spurs!He won't even learn to speck to the players in english?What does it say to them when Poyet is giving the team talks and telling them how to play,maybe he should be given a chance to do the job?

How long more will spurs fan be asked to keep the fate,it will get better??
We expect:mad: and for the money they are on they need to start delivering and that should start at the top!!!!!!

SuprSi

I don't think that sacking Ramos would be a good thing, but his record this calendar year would have had us relegated, so something has to happen, otherwise we will be relegated this season.

We have purchased some fantastic players, who are going to take time to settle in and get up to speed, some of which are being played out of position. None of which seem to be performing well enough.

I don't know about anybody else but I'm sick of seeing muck like last night. People in work have gone beyond laughing about it and are actually sympathetic, which is even worse!! My interest in Spurs in the short term has completely disappeared, and it'll take something we haven't produced in over a year to make me interested again - consistency. And consistently bad doesn't count!! :pac:

Joycee

Jesus I was pissed off watching that match last night - not so much because we lost, but in the manner of the defeat. We played like a team of dis-interested waisters. Villa looked like the home team and fair play to them.. I have to say I think we need a period of stability to begin at the club. 14 players out and 9 players in this summer. If we get rid of Ramos, we would begin the whole charade again of changing the team to the new managers mould. We need to get a starting 11 sorted out and we need to start winning.. End of

SuprSi

Thought this was worth sharing - posted on COYS earlier today;

In the league in the calendar year, 2008:

22 games
23 points

5 wins
8 draws
9 defeats

For 29
Against 32

I'm afraid that is relegation territory. Even doubling that points total would put us really close to the bottom 3 (if we ever get out of it) and at the moment I'm very, very worried. It seems the Carling Cup was a fluke because nothing happened either before or after it. I really hope it's not Ramos.

Drummerboy2

The problem with Spurs is Daniel Levy. He allowed 3 goal machines leave without replacing them with quality replacements. The Russian striker Pav may come good. Why wasn't Arshavin signed. Levy has made over €12m profit in sales this summer and wasn't prepared to pay an extra €1 million to Zenith for Arshavin. Ramos has to take some of the blame, allowing so many decent players without getting in replacements.

Dublin Spur

Try not to let them (THFC) upset you.
They're not worth the grief.
Just try and enjoy the craic in the pub or at the games with you pals as there has been very little craic supporting Spurs in the past 20 years.

Everyone has their own solutions to the problems at Spurs.
I now think that our problems are not fixable unless we get an oil barron on board (which would be bull****s as well) All of the conventional solutions are tiring and we will always exist without ever doing anything special in the game.

It's a sad outlook, but I'm not gonna waste any more time being sad about it. I'll still go to the odd game and watch them on the telly in the pub, enjoy the craic but will not get caught up in all the emotion for screeming at millionaire kids that don't give 2 fcuks about the club I love. That's the game today, and I hate what as happened to it.

therecklessone

keane=cock wrote: »

i strongly believe martain jol won us that cup last season as he built the squad that won that cup bar woodgate and hutton who signed under ramos or more likely comolli.

Did you even read what you had typed before hitting submit?

Jol built the squad that got us to the final, except for the players that arrived after he left, so they obviously were Comolli's work...:rolleyes:

Need I remind you of Jol's record vs Arsenal in Carling Cup semis? Who threw a 2 goal lead away at home to their B team?

You sing Jamie O'Hara's praises, who gave him his first start? Clue: it was as a sub vs Pompey in Dec 07

why give ramos time when mj was getting the bullet when spurs were pushing for champs league not mid table and survival.

Jol managed a 9th place finish in his first shortened season (arguably against weaker 2nd tier sides) and over the exact same number of games after both were appointed, Jol had managed only 6 points more than Ramos...and no silverware.

keane=cock

therecklessone wrote: »

Jol built the squad that got us to the final, except for the players that arrived after he left, so they obviously were Comolli's work...:rolleyes:

true but can you defend ramos decision to let class players like defoe berb and keane leave n not replace them??
fair enough if the boys wanted to go for whatever reason but replacements should have been in place. the keane and berbatov situations dragged on long enough for someone to be lined up. agreed?? and i dont think pavleunchenko is worth 2 strikers!

although ramos came with a great record we have yet to witness any brilliance on his part. he still has a lot of work to win me over on his side.

on weather sackin him is an issue i dont think he should be sacked but i dont think he should have been recuited either. i know mj had a bad start to last season but there was so much talk about the whole ramos thing i dont think the players were fully focused with him n thats sad.

therecklessone

keane=cock wrote: »

true but can you defend ramos decision to let class players like defoe berb and keane leave n not replace them??
fair enough if the boys wanted to go for whatever reason but replacements should have been in place. the keane and berbatov situations dragged on long enough for someone to be lined up. agreed?? and i dont think pavleunchenko is worth 2 strikers!

Again, hold on...direct your blame for the Keane/Berbatov moves up the ladder to Comolli/Levy, Ramos did his job in attracting dos Santos to the club but the majority of the negotiations were conducted by the DOF and the chairman.

And while you're singing Jol's praises, how about you dig him out for the part he played in Defoe running his contract down sitting on the bench? If he'd got a bit more playing time (I don't know, say if Jol had managed to get him and Keane working as a partnership in anticipation of Berbatov's inevitable move) maybe he'd have signed the contract on the table and Levy might not have cashed in on him in January to avoid another Campbell?

keane=cock wrote: »

although ramos came with a great record we have yet to witness any brilliance on his part.

Really? 5-1 vs the Goons in the CC wasn't brilliant? Coming from behind vs Chelsea in the final? The last kick of the game at home to United denying us all 3 points? Beating Man City with 10 men at Eastlands (first side to do that last season)? I've seen enough to suggest he can do a job with this squad, as long as he'll learn from his recent team selection mistakes.

keane=cock

therecklessone wrote: »

I've seen enough to suggest he can do a job with this squad

your making some really good points and this is the reason i set up this thread for opinions. you say this squad but he has constantly sold from the squad and not replaced them with the quality that was there before.

he has got some good results you named above but there has been some really disappointing ones as well and i dont think spurs fans are happy in mid table
i like jol and thats why i use him as an example. if ramos surpasses him ill be first to praise him and swallow my words and be happy to do so!

if its stats you want

worse start for 34 years!
then we beat the drop by 1 point.
the table doesnt lie- bottom after 4 games 1point 2 points behind stoke


we rarely looked like scoring last night and could have been beaten by more i think. a couple of good saves by gomes and a goal line clearance by jenas and a rugby tackle by dawson when villa were almost tru one on one

tippspur

keane=cock wrote: »

wel folks its looks like all us spurs fans have been fooled yet again. after the summer sales of most of our good players and few signings we are bottom of the table with a solitary point!

now, last season skip ledley king said we had the best strikers in europe. 6 months later defoe was gone and keane n berbatov followed in the "spurs summer sale". we were left with bent n then we all jumped on the hype of what one good tournament can do for a player, pavlenchenko.
ramos is supposed to be our saviour. why then did he start a man i have yet to see make a sucessful cross in his whole career(lennon) when he spent millions on two wingers bentley n giovanni dos santos?

am i the only person who believes ramos doent know what he is doing except ruining my life. he sold most of the regulars from last season and has not replaced them. jenas was prob our best player last season n he got dropped against villa! bentley n giovani sat on the bench alongside "berbatovs replacement" campbell and so was a player ramos rated so highly last season he gave him the job of man marking ronaldo and fabregas jamie o hara.

im all for team building but that takes time you dont sell half you squad and expect to start winning things straight off. i dont know how ramos ever won a match as a manager never mind a trophy. i strongly believe martain jol won us that cup last season as he built the squad that won that cup bar woodgate and hutton who signed under ramos or more likely comolli.

am i alone spurs fans or do others agree?????

You said that Jenas was prob our best player last season:eek:don't know how the fcuk you can make that out.

keane=cock

tippspur wrote: »

You said that Jenas was prob our best player last season:eek:don't know how the fcuk you can make that out.

espn quote for ye.....

Jenas enjoyed what was arguably the best season of his career in 2007/08 as he won the League Cup with Spurs, returned to the England fold, played in 45 of the club's 57 games in all competitions and scoring six goals. He was rewarded with a new contract tying him to the White Hart Lane until 2013 and as a result of his growing maturity become the club's vice captain ahead of the 2008/09 season.

tippspur

I was over in whl at 3 games last year i can tell you that jenas was not our best player last season from what i saw of him live or on tv, no matter what espn says.and if he is our future captain its god help us for leadership.

keane=cock

tippspur wrote: »

I was over in whl at 3 games last year i can tell you that jenas was not our best player last season from what i saw of him live or on tv, no matter what espn says.and if he is our future captain its god help us for leadership.

well from what i hear berbatov was gonna be offered the vice captaincy to stay so it doesnt look good when last season king was captain n keane was vice captain n then robbo n apart from the ever not so present king we have no current vice captain

therecklessone

keane=cock wrote: »

your making some really good points and this is the reason i set up this thread for opinions. you say this squad but he has constantly sold from the squad and not replaced them with the quality that was there before.

Gomes > Robinson
Woodgate > Dawson/Kaboul/Gardner/Rocha
Hutton > Chimbonda
Corluka > all of last season's backup players

Bentley, dos Santos, and Modric are all improvements to the squad, and are a damn sight better than Tainio, Boateng, Lennon, Huddlestone, Taarabt. The only midfielder I was sad to see go was Steed, and I think he would have made a good option from the bench. Gunter and Bostock also give us options for the future.

You're focusing on the loss of Keane and Berbatov (nobody gave a fcuk about Defoe leaving back in January when we still had three strikers to choose from, and Keane was still keeping him out of the side) and blaming Ramos for that, when the truth is that Berbatov was always going to be sold, a dog with a mallet up its arse could tell you that. The loss of Keane was out of left field, and perhaps Ramos should have put his foot down and said no the move, but perhaps he was promised a replacement like Arshavin (we did try to sign him for the guts of two months after all)? Maybe the success in delivering Modric, dos Santos and Bentley convinced him that Comolli and Levy could deliver the goods from Zenit, but he never factored in Levy's love of a deal.

Criticise the club structure all you want, but both Jol and Ramos worked under the same system, and if Jol is to be congratulated for the squad JR inherited, then JR is to be congratulated for the improvements made since his arrival. And if you can't see those improvements, then there's not much hope for you tbh.

keane=cock

if woodgate stays fit he will be a great player for us. i think chimpbonda had a poor season last year after the the season before and hutton is a player i rate. modric is an improvement and i was also disappointed to loose malbranque.
i know keepers are intitled to make mistakes and when they do it usually at the cost of a goal but gomes reminded a little of robbo monday night. im just a little sick of seein the club loose goals from 30 yards.

as for promises of arshaven... he isnt at the club!!
our strike force is depleted n scoring goals is a problem. if you dont score goals you wont win games

therecklessone

keane=cock wrote: »

as for promises of arshaven... he isnt at the club!!
our strike force is depleted n scoring goals is a problem. if you dont score goals you wont win games

Fair enough. You've stopped blaming Ramos for that have ya?

John W

tippspur wrote: »

I was over in whl at 3 games last year i can tell you that jenas was not our best player last season from what i saw of him live or on tv, no matter what espn says.and if he is our future captain its god help us for leadership.

Not that I have ever hated Jenas, but I have never really rallied behind him either, always thought he was over hyped (the young English talent thing in the papers).

However, when he came on against Croatia he looked a threat, even being played out of position, he got on the with job at hand and did well, making the goal! Again on Monday I thought he's presence changed the game (for a while until the killer 2nd goal)

I think he has matured into his position, and I can finally see what others, obviously including Ramos as he made him Vice Capitan (effectively Capitan as King won't play as many games) have seen in him. I think he will be a big and positive influence on the team this year.

We need players like this in the team, we have a lot of young or new lads in the team, we must have a balance of experienced players, it is important that players like Jenas, Woodgate, king, Even Bale, play as much as possible.

keane=cock

therecklessone wrote: »

Fair enough. You've stopped blaming Ramos for that have ya?

not entirely. he is the manager and has to have a strong say in it and must take a lot of the blame even if he isnt solely to blame

tippspur

John W wrote: »

Not that I have ever hated Jenas, but I have never really rallied behind him either, always thought he was over hyped (the young English talent thing in the papers).

However, when he came on against Croatia he looked a threat, even being played out of position, he got on the with job at hand and did well, making the goal! Again on Monday I thought he's presence changed the game (for a while until the killer 2nd goal)

I think he has matured into his position, and I can finally see what others, obviously including Ramos as he made him Vice Capitan (effectively Capitan as King won't play as many games) have seen in him. I think he will be a big and positive influence on the team this year.

We need players like this in the team, we have a lot of young or new lads in the team, we must have a balance of experienced players, it is important that players like Jenas, Woodgate, king, Even Bale, play as much as possible.

I hope your right about jenas, i really do hope that he matures into a vital player and a great leader of the team but i just cant see him doing it, if he proves me wrong then great.

therecklessone

keane=cock wrote: »

not entirely. he is the manager and has to have a strong say in it and must take a lot of the blame even if he isnt solely to blame

I officially give up on you.

keane=cock

therecklessone wrote: »

I officially give up on you.

do you feel he is totally blameless??
not too many people agree with his team selection for villa game!

twilight_singer

tippspur wrote: »

I hope your right about jenas, i really do hope that he matures into a vital player and a great leader of the team but i just cant see him doing it, if he proves me wrong then great.

He won't. How old is he now 25? How many times does he lose possesion and his head goes down? not the sign of a player with maturity.
A fully fit Steven Reid would be great for us.

WhiteWashMan

keane=cock wrote: »

do you feel he is totally blameless??
not too many people agree with his team selection for villa game!

saying the same thing over and over again doesnt make it a valid point...