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Who's at fault?

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  • 16-09-2008 1:58pm
    #1
    macinalli
    Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭


    Was coming into Ranelagh yesterday evening, coming up to that junction where you turn off for Milltown. I saw this cyclist sitting on the ground, on the bikelane; he was about 50 and sitting in front of a car being driven by this young guy, seemed about 19. Apparently what happened was the young guy was coming up to join the main road. There's a yield sign there but he drove very aggressively towards it, came about a foot onto the bike lane before stopping. The 50 year chap saw him coming, lost his nerve, wobbled and came down in front of the car. Not hurt but a bit shook all the same. Young gob****e then proceeded to distinguish himself by getting out of the car to launch a string of abuse at the guy on the ground. Real class act, didn't even offer to help him up.

    In the end no police were called and the cyclist wasn't hurt but I was wondering - who's at fault in a situation like this? The incident was provoked by the driver, but he never actually touched the cyclist. It struck me that I've been in similar situations (especially on roundabouts) where drivers come up really fast and leave you in a situation where you're certain that he hasn't seen you and you're going over his bonnet. Braking hard in a situation like that, anything can happen...


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    #2
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    I would suspect that if the cops got involved the driver could be done for failing to stop at the yield line, but not 100% sure. Nice follow up behaviour though! :rolleyes:


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    #3
    Gavin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭Gavin


    Dangerous/Intimidating driving, not to mention as Ken says, breaking the line.

    Certainly worth a phone call to traffic watch and report the guys reg at the least.


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    #4
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Might have been a chance as well that being a young guy, he was still on a provisional license (with or without L plates). If that had been the case then he could have been in a bit of trouble.


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    #5
    PeadarofAodh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭PeadarofAodh


    I know the junction you're talking about - go through there most days. I'd say the driver would definitely be at fault if an accident happened. Imagine if he'd encroached on a car lane and the car had been forced to swerve to avoid a collision, then colliding with someone/something else?

    I've had a couple of close calls, especially on roundabouts, where I have right of way and a car comes past the yield line very quickly and has to brake suddenly after seeing me late, causing me to swerve. If I was then hit by a car coming up from behind I'd definitely hope the driver pulling out would get done!


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    #6
    Hungrycol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,246 ✭✭✭Hungrycol


    kenmc wrote: »
    I would suspect that if the cops got involved the driver could be done for failing to stop at the yield line, but not 100% sure. Nice follow up behaviour though! :rolleyes:

    You're not supposed to stop at a yeild sign unless there's traffic on the road of greater importance that has right of way.

    Sounds like neither was at fault IMO. The man just fell off his bike and if there was a broken white line distinguishing the cycle track then it's effectively part of the road. Feckin eejit car driver by the sounds of it but there's lots out there.

    BTW, Was the man wearing a helmet?


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    #7
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    Hungrycol wrote: »
    You're not supposed to stop at a yeild sign unless there's traffic on the road of greater importance that has right of way.
    The cyclist was traffic on the road of greater importance, so the driver had to stop at the yield sign, no?


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    #8
    Gavin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭Gavin


    Hungrycol wrote: »
    You're not supposed to stop at a yeild sign unless there's traffic on the road of greater importance that has right of way.

    Sounds like neither was at fault IMO. The man just fell off his bike and if there was a broken white line distinguishing the cycle track then it's effectively part of the road. Feckin eejit car driver by the sounds of it but there's lots out there.

    The driver was clearly in the wrong by crossing the line.
    "If you see a Yield sign on the road, usually near a junction or roundabout, you must give way to any traffic on a major road ahead and you must not proceed out onto the main road until it is safe to do so."

    From the description, it was not safe for the driver to stick the nose of his car out onto the road.
    BTW, Was the man wearing a helmet?

    The driver ? Probably not. Stupid car drivers.


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    #9
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Hungrycol wrote: »
    Sounds like neither was at fault IMO. The man just fell off his bike
    Where you have to take action to avoid an accident and cause damage to yourself or your vehicle, the other party may be at fault, even if you didn't collide with them.
    For example, imagine I'm driving down the road, and a car pulls straight out in front of me without looking, less than 5m from my bonnet. I steer to the right, manage to avoid him, but it's a slippery day and in trying to recover, I fishtail it, leaving my car into the ditch on the left-hand side of the road. The other guy is at fault, even though I didn't hit him.
    BTW, Was the man wearing a helmet?
    How is that relevant?


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    #10
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    seamus wrote: »
    How is that relevant?

    Its not.

    In this case the driver was out of line to speed up heading to the sign and then brake hard, understandable the cyclist was put off by this and caused him to fall off, the driver should have yield.

    Report the muppet if you have his reg, while the cyclist isn't a car the car still has to give him right of way.


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    #11
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Its not.

    In this case the driver was out of line to speed up heading to the sign and then brake hard, understandable the cyclist was put off by this and caused him to fall off, the driver should have yield.

    Report the muppet if you have his reg, while the cyclist isn't a car the car still has to give him right of way.

    It freaks me out when drivers pull up to junctions fast and then stop. Before they stop, I have no idea if they have seen me or not, even then you can't be sure.


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    #12
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    My fear is when you are coming across a junction and the person in the car is looking at traffic in the opposite lane and I'm there thinking "Is he/she going to look back at this side of the road before they decide to pull out?"

    I have been tempted once or twice to stop and wait because I am convinced they have looked right and gone "ok, its clear" then spent then next minute or two looking for a break in traffic to their left.

    *Shudder*


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    #13
    macinalli
    Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭macinalli


    Hungrycol wrote: »
    BTW, Was the man wearing a helmet?

    Helmet, hi-vis vest, the works. Near as I can tell his only fault was being rattled when the car drove at him.

    Don't remember the reg at this stage (didn't know about Traffic Watch til I googled it a few minutes ago!). At the time I was quite keen for the guards to be called, mainly because of the drivers attitude. The cyclist though seemed a fairly gentle sort - just wanted to forget about it and go home...


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    #14
    '68 Fastback
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭'68 Fastback


    I was comming through that junction this morning too. I didn't happen to see the particular incident but a buss did pull out across the cycle lane, onto the main road, infront of me, into a line of stopped traffic and stopped! He blocked everyone in the cycle lane and anyone who wanted to get into the outside lane. Spanner.


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    #15
    John_C
    Registered Users Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭John_C


    I don't mean to be overly judgemental since I wasn't there but the cyclist really should have been able to break suddenly without falling over. Whether we're in a bike or a car we need to remember that other people can make mistakes sometimes and take account of that.


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    #16
    PeadarofAodh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭PeadarofAodh


    John_C wrote: »
    I don't mean to be overly judgemental since I wasn't there but the cyclist really should have been able to break suddenly without falling over. Whether we're in a bike or a car we need to remember that other people can make mistakes sometimes and take account of that.

    He should've been able to without falling off?! Are you for real? He thought a car was about to go right through him so he swerved and braked in an attempt to minimise the damage the car was potentially going to do to him. I would definitely not class that as a mistake. :rolleyes:


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    #17
    Limestone1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Limestone1


    PeadarofAodh wrote: »
    He should've been able to without falling off?! Are you for real? He thought a car was about to go right through him so he swerved and braked in an attempt to minimise the damage the car was potentially going to do to him. I would definitely not class that as a mistake. :rolleyes:

    Maybe but if for example the cyclist tried to claim for a damaged bike he wouldn't get a penny. He lost control and fell over without any collision and it would be nigh on impossible to pin the blame on another road user.


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    #18
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Not necessarily. If a witness came forward or the other road user admitted that they pulled out in front of him, then he could get damages.

    Of course few motorists in that situation would do the right thing.


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    #19
    PeadarofAodh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭PeadarofAodh


    Limestone1 wrote: »
    Maybe but if for example the cyclist tried to claim for a damaged bike he wouldn't get a penny. He lost control and fell over without any collision and it would be nigh on impossible to pin the blame on another road user.

    If the vehicle broke a rule of the road and there was a witness then I wouldn't imagine it would be all that difficult to pin the blame on the driver. Just like if a car started driving down the wrong side of the road and then swerved back into its own lane, sending a car careering into a wall but never making actual contact.


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