Do you believe in A God?

CDfm

djpbarry wrote: »

As for Jesus' greatest trick...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmaGULNRouc

So thats you saying you believe in television and if it doesnt get delivered to you in a comic book format you cannot comprehend it.

I dont really care if you believe or not- it doesnt bother me.

Riddle101

Yeah i believe in a higher being, but wheter it be our God, Allah, Raw, Tom Cruise or Buddah is beyond me

taibhse

Religion is a social construct that emerged at the same time as societies did.

To all the believers out there would you believe in god if you had not been taught the concept by school or parents.

If there was no worldwide idea of god, would anyone believe?
E.G. say hypothetically that when the first societies began to emerge they had the same level of scientific knowledge that we have now. I really doubt if that had been the case that an idea of god would ever have come about.

j0605

I do believe in God.

Im not very religious and I do question alot of the bible stuff and so on which I suppose we are not ment to, but I'm sure there is a God

Tigger

Zillah wrote: »

God: An imaginary friend for grown ups.

quotation is an inadequate something for wit

Tigger

j0605 wrote: »

I do believe in God.

Im not very religious and I do question alot of the bible stuff and so on which I suppose we are not ment to, but I'm sure there is a God

you are sure?

how

there is no god

athiest forum tbh

aidan24326

The Scientist wrote: »

Well people who believe in God outlive atheists for one

Ok let's assume for a second that's true (I don't know if it is or not, I doubt it).

That would indicate that belief in god has some survival advantage. Which is well and good, but tells us nothing about whether god actually exists or not.

The only thing that pisses me off about atheists is that although 62% voted no, its likely that the majority would use a Church to get married.

The majority? I doubt that. Some will for one reason or another, often to please the person they're marrying or to keep family happy. Personally I will not be getting married in a church but I can see why some atheists do, It may be the lesser of two evils so to speak.

Well thats where you & I differ.

Well you see I can accept that life may have had a creative influence at the start, just maybe. We're not entirely sure how it got started. But there didn't have to be a creator, that's the important thing to note. The process by how life began isn't fully understood right now but it might be some day.

CDfm wrote: »

Open minded ok - I can have a go.

Then that would mean that I was created by God while you on the....other hand....are decended from apes?

I can live wth that -Im not speciest:rolleyes:

We're not descended 'from' apes, we are apes. A type of ape. Ourselves and the other great apes are closely related (in evolutionary terms) and share relatively-recent common ancestry. What problem do you have with that?

sunstar wrote: »

how could she possibly have been a placebo??that wouldnt make any sense at all do you even know what a placebo is?

Well it appears you don't?? The placebo effect is a psychological effect, known to be real though not that well understood. Placebo is very relevant to faith healing, as the firm belief that one is going to be cured can create a very positive mental attitude that is known to have an effect on the healing process even though the exact details of how it works aren't fully understood.

there was no misdiagnosis..and doctors unfamiliar with such rapid healing is total BS. tumors dont just degenerate to nothing.

I'm not familiar with the case you're referring to, but you only have to watch discovery channel to realise that doctors often encounter medical anomalies that they can't really explain. The body is an extremely complex machine and sometimes strange things can happen, and spontaneous remission of a cancer tumour isn't even all that strange in medical science, it's not that unusual.

miracles cannot be scientifically documented because no one can explain why or how they happen.

A 'miracle' is just something unusual that science can't fully explain yet. The trouble with faith healing is that it has never been shown to have any effect above what you'd expect from normal placebo or just plain old coincidence. Never. And tests have been done. The day a healer comes along who can demonstrate healing powers well above the normal placebo effect then people will have to sit up and take notice, and scientists will be falling over themselves with excitement to try and figure what strange previously unknown phenomenon is at work. This has not happened yet though, and I won't be holding my breath tbh.

as for why some are healed and millions suffer..i also would like to know

Because the world doesn't do 'fair'. All the evidence we see around us points to us living in a big cold uncaring universe that isn't there to please us. What that tells you is that even if a god does exist, he/it certainly bears no resemblance to the kind loving grandad god that religious people believe in. That type of god is not consistent with the reality of what we see around us.

stevoman wrote: »

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist

Really? Well millions of people around the world very much believe that he does exist, so the devil didn't do a very good job.

And you know when we look around at the mess of a world we live in now we'd have to admit there's more evidence for satan existing than for a benevolent god.

Tigger

also its something made up by people who pooed in their backgardens

Galvasean

Jakkass wrote: »

Mind you, what do you mean which one? There is only one and there has only ever been one, unless your question is which concept of god/s is your favourite?

Says you. Billions of people throughout the history of mankind disagree with your choice of God. What makes your choice more valid than anyone elses?

mardybumbum wrote: »

I believe the Celestial Teapot deserves a mention! I demand you edit that list!

Not necessarily a God, but I suppose it is as likely to exist as the others on the list...

j0605

Tigger wrote: »

you are sure?

how

there is no god

How are you so sure there isn't a God, ?

CDfm

taibhse wrote: »

Religion is a social construct that emerged at the same time as societies did.

To all the believers out there would you believe in god if you had not been taught the concept by school or parents.

If there was no worldwide idea of god, would anyone believe?
E.G. say hypothetically that when the first societies began to emerge they had the same level of scientific knowledge that we have now. I really doubt if that had been the case that an idea of god would ever have come about.

I love to hear this social construct stuff.

Masculinity is a social construct, Feminity is a social construct.What is a social construct because I have heard so many feminist writters use the phrase social construct without explaining what it meant.

If greyhound racing is one I would sure like to know. Dogs I bet on sometimes win and they are real.

I believe in God though.

Im holding out on the social construct until someone explains it to me.

aidan24326

What is a social construct because I have heard so many feminist writters use the phrase social construct without explaining what it meant.

Something that has come about via societal conditioning, for example the repressed attitude towards sex and sexuality in some cultures, even though it's a perfectly natural thing.

taibhse

I love to hear this social construct stuff.

Masculinity is a social construct, Feminity is a social construct.What is a social construct because I have heard so many feminist writters use the phrase social construct without explaining what it meant.

If greyhound racing is one I would sure like to know. Dogs I bet on sometimes win and they are real.

Social construct has nothing to do with real or unreal, its the rules of society, rituals, ideals, taboos, abstact ideas. Based on these is how the society will function either rightly or wrongly.

Here this man might be able to help u

or him

CDfm

aidan24326 wrote: »

Well you see I can accept that life may have had a creative influence at the start, just maybe. We're not entirely sure how it got started. But there didn't have to be a creator, that's the important thing to note. The process by how life began isn't fully understood right now but it might be some day.



We're not descended 'from' apes, we are apes. A type of ape. Ourselves and the other great apes are closely related (in evolutionary terms) and share relatively-recent common ancestry. What problem do you have with that?



Well it appears you don't?? The placebo effect is a psychological effect, known to be real though not that well understood. Placebo is very relevant to faith healing, as the firm belief that one is going to be cured can create a very positive mental attitude that is known to have an effect on the healing process even though the exact details of how it works aren't fully understood.
.

I am baffled here on one hand you are saying that you dont believe in a Creator and then say there may have being in the begining.

Then you say even if there is a creator it somehow ceased to exist at some point and you cant explain why or how.

I accept in good spirit that you are descended from apes. And you proceed with the hypotheses that we are all descended from apes. Not influenced at all by any Creator.Knowing that this hypotheses/ theory is full of assumptions to fill gaps in knowledge. You say there isnt any creator and have no evidence to fill these gaping holes.

You then proceed to cast doubt on miracles using arguments put forward by the Church. Citing a placebo affect that is scientifically proven not to exist with cancer and which most church teachings discount. The church view is that a miracle must be attested etc under a particular process and have Devils Advocates there to disprove it. The church are very anti miracle lest it interfere with any medical treatment.Even positive attitude does not arrest cancer it has no theraputic value at all.

You base a lot of your arguments on a literalist reading of the bible(used by some so callred fundamentalist) which has never been used by mainstream Christian Churches and which the Judeo-Christian Church debated and interpreted with a Platoist reading way back in the 1st and 2nd Century AD.

Its no wonder you have me confused

CDfm

taibhse wrote: »

Social construct has nothing to do with real or unreal, its the rules of society, rituals, ideals, taboos, abstact ideas. Based on these is how the society will function either rightly or wrongly.

Here this man might be able to help u

or him

I am a guy and proud of it - had forgotten about Nietzches book "the Gay Science" .

This must be a core book on which Dawkins relied and which God himself must have had a hand in naming -it being almost contemperaneous with Darwin. :rolleyes:

Even unbelievers must marvel at that

JC 2K3

sunstar wrote: »

how could she possibly have been a placebo??that wouldnt make any sense at all do you even know what a placebo is?
there was no misdiagnosis..and doctors unfamiliar with such rapid healing is total BS. tumors dont just degenerate to nothing.

A placebo is something which is medically inert yet cures an illness.

How do you know there was no misdiagnosis? It happens all the time.

And there are certain facts which have to be investigated in this case, such as:
-When was the tumor diagnosed?
-How big was the tumor when it was found?
-How long was there between the diagnosis and the "healing"?
-How long was there between the "healing" and returning to the hospital?


We need all this information to make an informed judgement as to what exactly happened.

Also, are you certain that tumors never just degenerate spontaneously? I'm not an expert on the subject, so I can't say for sure.

sunstar wrote: »

miracles cannot be scientifically documented because no one can explain why or how they happen.

That's not true. I think you misunderstand the phrase "scientifically documented", as well as how science works in general.

A scientific documentation would simply be for a qualified professional doctor/medical scientist to write down what happened and when it happened. For example:

Day 1: Tumor diagnosed, <information about tumor etc.>

Day before going to healer: Tumor still in same state as before.

Day after going to healer: Tumor appears to have disappeared.


And that's all that would be needed to suggest that healers actually work. After this, scientists would then gather a group of several hundred cancer patients with similar tumors and have half go to healers and half to not and see if the ones going to the healer show any better signs of improvement. If they do, then scientists would be extremely excited that they've shown that healers very possibly can cure cancer.

Unfortunately, they've never gotten past step one, i.e. ever scientifically documenting any case of such a miracle ever occuring or healer directly curing anything.

Caoimhín

Are ye still at this lads?

I told ye about 20 pages ago.

I am Dog, a dyslexic ogd but a gdo none the less.

krpc

caoibhin wrote: »

Are ye still at this lads?

I told ye about 20 pages ago.

I am Dog, a dyslectic ogd but a gdo none the less.

The Church/Organised Religion have been at this for the last 2 millenia, and science has been attemping to disprove it for just as long. I think get yourself a pillow as this thread is in it for the long-haul unless it's closed sometime soon

Caoimhín

i-bloodhound wrote: »

The Church/Organised Religion have been at this for the last 2 millenia, and science has been attemping to disprove it for just as long. I think get yourself a pillow as this thread is in it for the long-haul unless it's closed sometime soon

So you believe me then?

Bless you my son, 43 virgins await you in my paradise...

Now go forth and speak in tongues.

aidan24326

CDfm wrote: »

I am baffled here on one hand you are saying that you dont believe in a Creator and then say there may have being in the begining

Not exactly. I said I allow the possibility in so far as we don't know for sure, that's all. I don't think there was as there's no evidence for one, and no proof that there even needed to be.

Then you say even if there is a creator it somehow ceased to exist at some point and you cant explain why or how.

Where did I say that? There is no evidence for a creator, there didn't have to be one, but I cannot say flat out that there isn't one. I can say that based on current evidence and all that we know and observe around us, it's almost certain that the type of god religious people believe in does not exist.

I accept in good spirit that you are descended from apes. And you proceed with the hypotheses that we are all descended from apes. Not influenced at all by any Creator.Knowing that this hypotheses/ theory is full of assumptions to fill gaps in knowledge. You say there isnt any creator and have no evidence to fill these gaping holes.

First off, if I'm 'descended from apes' as you put it, then surely that implies that everyone else is too? I'm not sure what you mean tbh.

There's not as many gaps as you think. Evolution is pretty well understood at this stage, with mountains of evidence to back it up. The process itself doesn't require any outside intervention. There's increasing evidence that the beginning of life may not have either. As for the universe as a whole, for all we know it has always existed or just spontaneously emerged from nothing. We just don't know, and inventing some imaginary god doesn't explain anything, it only raises more questions than it answers.

You then proceed to cast doubt on miracles using arguments put forward by the Church. Citing a placebo affect that is scientifically proven not to exist with cancer and which most church teachings discount.

Now you're losing me I'm afraid. Since when was the placebo effect proven to not work with cancer? And what the heck have church teachings got to do with it?

As for the person who was apparently cured of cancer by that healer I don't know what happened exactly. I'm just saying that a natural process (placebo, spontaneous remission, pure luck) is considerably more likely than the healer person having magic powers. Maybe he/she has, but there is zilcho evidence for it and like I said, when these people are tested their 'magic powers' are invariably no better than what one would expect from a combination of placebo effects and random chance.

Even positive attitude does not arrest cancer it has no theraputic value at all.

Well you could argue it either way as the exact details of how it works aren't that well understood anyway, but the effect of the mind on the physical healing process has been known for a long time. That's how the placebo effect works, people who believe they're being given life-saving treatment will sometimes get better even though no real treatment was administered.

Zillah

i-bloodhound wrote: »

The Church/Organised Religion have been at this for the last 2 millenia, and science has been attemping to disprove it for just as long.

When was the last time you heard someone claim the Gods were angry after thunder and lightning?

krpc

Zillah wrote: »

When was the last time you heard someone claim the Gods were angry after thunder and lightning?

I can't recall. I know they're angry at least once a month though and take it out on everyone around them

Sea Sharp

Reality does not care whether or not you understand it.

With respect to religious people, do u not think it's a bit of a load of bollox to suggest that the whole universe was created for and reloves around a bunch of humans .

Religion formed as an explanation of the world and it's beginnings based on the latest-knolegde and assumptions of the time.

Evolution formed as an explanation of the world and it's beginnings based on the latest-knolegde and assumptions of the time.

Do you think is more likely to be correct. Bronze-age priests, or modern day scientists.

Logical analysis shows that the modern-scientists are putting forth more sensible explanations that the Bronze-age priests.

The important thing is to analyse the situation LOGICALLY.

Chances are you accepted the concept of a 'divine being' before you were old enough to think logically. And It can be very hard to let go of facts and explanations that have been with you for most of your life.

"I beleive in god because..............."

Finish that sentence with something that makes logical sense. If you can, I shall convert back to religion .

carlybabe1

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

"I beleive in god because..............."

Finish that sentence with something that makes logical sense. If you can, I shall convert back to religion .

because.............the alternative is just too ****in bleak...if there isnt a god what i it that drives people to do/go above and beyond what society expects of them??? people like bob and his band aid, noels HQ mama theresa, and the Irish woman who moved over to help rowandan/romanian (?) orphans (Ill burn in hell cause I cant remember )
of course in the trdition of yin&yang if there is god there has to be a nemesis ENTER satan
If he doesn't exist then how????? do we explain such barbaric awful things that happen, child abuse/paedophilia/human torture/ parents losing children in completely horrendous/inexplicable/unforeseen circumstances etc.. No god no afterlife, right?

Nevyn

A God ? nope.
Many Gods? yes.

Daithi McGee

Thaedydal wrote: »

A God ? nope.
Many Gods? yes.

Your call.

aidan24326

Thaedydal wrote: »

A God ? nope.
Many Gods? yes.

And who are these many gods?

Mark Hamill

carlybabe1 wrote: »

because.............the alternative is just too ****in bleak...if there isnt a god what i it that drives people to do/go above and beyond what society expects of them??? people like bob and his band aid, noels HQ mama theresa, and the Irish woman who moved over to help rowandan/romanian (?) orphans (Ill burn in hell cause I cant remember )

Well, seeing as people do go above and beyond what society expects of them and god doesn't actually exist, then I guess its people themselves, that drive themselves to be good. Its funny that its only the religious who don't believe that people can be good without god, its the religious who are so selfish as to believe that there can be no other reason to do good than the reward of a heaven or the punishment of a hell.

carlybabe1 wrote: »

of course in the trdition of yin&yang if there is god there has to be a nemesis ENTER satan
If he doesn't exist then how????? do we explain such barbaric awful things that happen, child abuse/paedophilia/human torture/ parents losing children in completely horrendous/inexplicable/unforeseen circumstances etc.. No god no afterlife, right?

I'll guess we'll just have to stop looking for a scapegoat and realise that some people are just barbaric, and need to be dealt with in the here and now, not left up to some imaginary afterlife fix-it-all, because its easier that way.

geminilady

I believe in God, and am very happy to have my faith. Alot of my friends also believe in God too. One thing i would add is not to lose faith in God, if you lost it with the church.

krpc

aidan24326 wrote: »

And who are these many gods?

A list was posted here.