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Do you believe in A God?

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    #482
    OK-Cancel-Apply
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭OK-Cancel-Apply


    Once you get over the fact that there's no afterlife, the fear of death diminishes significantly.


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    #483
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Kasen Curved Nature wrote: »
    I have faith (just not in God) and I lead a good life. Can I get in now?

    As far as my beliefs go, if you've been good, regardless of religion/lack of it, you'll be fine.


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    #484
    Calibos
    Registered Users Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭Calibos


    OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
    Once you get over the fact that there's no afterlife, the fear of death diminishes significantly.

    If I truely believed in an afterlife I would probably be in a permanent state of analysis and paranoia.....What would God think if this choice....that choice....did I just do a little sin or big sin.....am I praying to the wrong God....am I praying to the right God but in the wrong way....

    The fact that people aren't in general in a permanent state of analysis and paranoia means they are either so full of themselves that they think they can do no wrong in Gods eyes, or aren't quite sure of its existance and thus chance their arms with a few sins here and there. In which case if they don't have enough faith to follow their respective religions tenets to the letter then why the hell are they so adament that they would like their religions tenets made the law of the land.

    Just love the way a childrapist believer can get into heaven as long as he repents and accepts Jesus as his lord and saviour on his deathbed but a Life long Atheist Philanthropist is going to roast in the fiery pits of hell.


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    #485
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Calibos wrote: »
    Just love the way a childrapist believer can get into heaven as long as he repents and accepts Jesus as his lord and saviour on his deathbed but a Life long Atheist Philanthropist is going to roast in the fiery pits of hell.

    Well actually, that's not the way Catholicism at least works.

    The childrapist can say he repents all he likes, unless he actually means it, he's wasting his time. It's useless to repent if you know you'll sin again etc.

    Atheist that's a good guy: he's been doing good works, which is half the equation in Catholicism.


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    #486
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Kasen Curved Nature wrote: »
    I have faith (just not in God) and I lead a good life. Can I get in now?
    Nope - yer still alive and Im afraid belief in God goes with most christian beliefs

    but as one of lifes good guys at least you meet some of the criteria.

    who knows what you will believe in the future -beliefs are not static


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    #487
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    I guarantee you Dawkins has more knowledge of the bible than many people who would claim to be christian. In any case, theology is a nothing subject, the study of a big load of nonsense. A thelogian is not qualified in anything.




    No they don't. You're just setting up a straw man there.




    He does? Now we know for sure that you haven't read much or maybe even any of his work, and if you did you don't understand it.



    Dawkins has debated and engaged with creationists before, and been consistently misquoted, misrepresented and quoted out of context. He now refuses to debate publicly with them as he feels to do so gives them a credibility they do not deserve.



    Unfortunately not. And some people already have doubts but aren't sure why exactly, they're the type of people who Dawkins was mainly aiming at with The God Delusion.





    I think Dawkins is trying to change people's attitudes towards religion in general, to say to people you know what, religion doesn't deserve the respect it gets and it's ok to say that. Too many people tiptoe around religion as though it deserves some special untouchable status.

    But when you break it down most of it just a load of nonsense, and nonsense dressed up as religion is still nonsense.

    I accept that Dawkins has read the bible - however - I disagree that he would say have the ability to go the distance on such topics of Philo or Thomas Aquinus and their interpretations of the bible that a theologan would do.I think he puts a literalist view on it but thats irrelevant to this post.

    While you might think a theologan is not qualified would you consider a psychologist, philosopher qualified or an ethicest qualified? These all engage in abstract thought so at what level do you draw the line?

    So if you believe that religion does not deserve respect? Then how do you describe your attitude to mainstream christian religions say catholic or C of E. And Ive asked this elsewhere, benevolent, benign, ambivalent, hostile etc.

    This isnt limited to you -its an anyone thing- most people have abstract thoughts and make moral judgements and judgement calls every day. So as a social construct how are these arrived at and in discounting religion or a God belief at any level do we discount the good with the bad.

    What do you replace it with and how does it work.

    Surely you must have a view?


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    #488
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    nij wrote: »
    Dawkins isn't the only mainstream atheist you know. It seems that you're trying to subtley turn the tables and make out the atheists are the ones with their heads screwed on backwards.
    Ta for that- ive kept it in mind.

    Who would you suggest as alternative atheists


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    #489
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    nij wrote: »
    Dawkins isn't the only mainstream atheist you know. It seems that you're trying to subtley turn the tables and make out the atheists are the ones with their heads screwed on backwards.

    Agreed, he gets far too much spotlight, as do Hitchens, Dennett, and Harris also.


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    #490
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    kickoutthejams wrote: »
    Well actually, that's not the way Catholicism at least works.

    The childrapist can say he repents all he likes, unless he actually means it, he's wasting his time. It's useless to repent if you know you'll sin again etc.

    Atheist that's a good guy: he's been doing good works, which is half the equation in Catholicism.

    I can confirm that is Christianity in general not just Catholicism.


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    #491
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I can confirm that is Christianity in general not just Catholicism.

    Did Martin Luther not hit upon his revelation:
    That faith alone would save someone.

    Although granted if your being a dutiful Christian your faith would involve good works.


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    #492
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Kasen Curved Nature wrote: »
    I have faith (just not in God) and I lead a good life. Can I get in now?

    Death is a prerequisite - so being a christian i want you to live

    you being an atheist want to live to

    you want your life to be long healthy and happy

    so the longer you live is best all around


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    #493
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Agreed, he gets far too much spotlight, as do Hitchens, Dennett, and Harris also.
    I am not asking for that reason

    I am asking who the atheist /agnostic thinkers are -you know philospher kind of dudes

    there must be some


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    #494
    Tony Broke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭Tony Broke


    A smart man once said "I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is!"

    A few years later on comes his religion, but that man is nothing compared to others.


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    #495
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    im an atheist, thank god


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    #496
    Tony Broke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭Tony Broke


    Jesus Loves You wrote: »

    Do you believe in a God?

    I believe in money, which is the same thing.


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    #497
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    Once neuroscience reaches a complete understanding of mental function in terms of brain physiology and biochemistry, then I don't see anywhere left to hide for the afterlifers from there on.
    It can only be detected with a hocus pocus stick....maybe thats where science is going wrong. Bring in Paul Daniels he'll sort it all for us.


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    #498
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    CDfm wrote: »
    This isnt limited to you -its an anyone thing- most people have abstract thoughts and make moral judgements and judgement calls every day. So as a social construct how are these arrived at and in discounting religion or a God belief at any level do we discount the good with the bad.

    What do you replace it with and how does it work.

    Surely you must have a view?

    You really need to do some basic reading rather than petulantly demanding other people explain everything to you.

    We're not your priest, do some thinking for yourself.

    Yeah I went there.


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    #499
    Daithi McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Daithi McGee


    Allah is Great and Good.


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    #500
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Zillah wrote: »
    You really need to do some basic reading rather than petulantly demanding other people explain everything to you.

    We're not your priest, do some thinking for yourself.

    Yeah I went there.

    Thats kind of you to speak for everybody.

    Kind of universal that is sounds like religion to me.

    Am I too close for comfort or hasnt science provided all the answers to these yet.

    Is the shared belief - it hasnt yet but it will.


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    #501
    Solarball10
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Solarball10


    Yes, I believe in God. It's nice to think that there's a lovely place called Heaven and Everlasting life up there for when I pass on!


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    #502
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    kickoutthejams wrote: »
    Did Martin Luther not hit upon his revelation:
    That faith alone would save someone.

    Although granted if your being a dutiful Christian your faith would involve good works.

    Well if you consult the Bible, it says you will know a tree by it's fruit. Now do you think that Jesus is literally speaking about a tree? Or is the tree a faithful person, and the fruit it's works. Faith and good works are intrinsically linked, you know a faithful person by their works. You cannot have faith without works. That's my view on it anyway.


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    #503
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    CDfm wrote: »
    Thats kind of you to speak for everybody.

    Kind of universal that is sounds like religion to me.

    Am I too close for comfort or hasnt science provided all the answers to these yet.

    Is the shared belief - it hasnt yet but it will.

    Its both perplexing and fascinating that you can make such vague and nonsensical posts with such confidence.

    Like a homeless person on coke ranting about the CIA. He's very sure of himself but damned if anyone else is following what he's on about.


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    #504
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Zillah wrote: »
    Its both perplexing and fascinating that you can make such vague and nonsensical posts with such confidence.

    Like a homeless person on coke ranting about the CIA. He's very sure of himself but damned if anyone else is following what he's on about.
    I have hit a nerve.

    CIA,coke, homeless, paranoia,conspiracy theories - sounds like your scraping the bottom of the barrel

    You are starting to sound like a creationist.


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    #505
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Well if you consult the Bible, it says you will know a tree by it's fruit. Now do you think that Jesus is literally speaking about a tree? Or is the tree a faithful person, and the fruit it's works. Faith and good works are intrinsically linked, you know a faithful person by their works. You cannot have faith without works. That's my view on it anyway.

    I'd agree that it's pointless to be faithful without the good works, but Luther's revelation was that it's faith alone that saves someone, not the good works also required by the church.


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    #506
    nij
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭nij


    CDfm, you really are not making any sense whatsoever. What is this 'nerve' of Zillah's you supposedly hit upon? How does he sound like a Creationist? I doubt anybody here can follow what you're talking about. Your account is fairly new, yet you have around 700 posts. You clearly want to be heard, so please say something.


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    #507
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    CDfm wrote: »
    While you might think a theologan is not qualified would you consider a psychologist, philosopher qualified or an ethicest qualified? These all engage in abstract thought so at what level do you draw the line?

    I do not compare a psychologist to a theologian. One is attempting to understand something that is real, the other something which is not.
    So if you believe that religion does not deserve respect? Then how do you describe your attitude to mainstream christian religions say catholic or C of E. And Ive asked this elsewhere, benevolent, benign, ambivalent, hostile etc.

    I am not openly hostile, each to their own. However, it's not as though mainstream religion quietly goes about it's business, now is it?

    I have to say CDfm, you must have written about 20 posts in this thread so far, and I still have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect nobody else does either.

    Jakkass wrote: »
    Agreed, he gets far too much spotlight, as do Hitchens, Dennett, and Harris also.

    Dawkins, Harris etc only get spotlight, as you put it, because they are the ones who have come out and publicly expressed their views, and are merely attempting to open up the god/religion debate to a wider audience. To that end they have been successful.


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    #508
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    im an atheist, thank god

    Someone said that on page one..


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    #509
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    I have to say CDfm, you must have written about 20 posts in this thread so far, and I still have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect nobody else does either.
    +1

    I don't disrespect you or look down on you, I just have know idea what you're trying to say....


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    #510
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Someone said that on page one..

    that means could be an agnostic or someone who wants to be friends with everyone

    or someone whos really clever or a voyeur who likes to watch



    should I post a reply "Christians are lovely people is the other fellahs ya have to be careful of" or is that too happy clappy?


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    #511
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    I do not compare a psychologist to a theologian. One is attempting to understand something that is real, the other something which is not.



    I am not openly hostile, each to their own. However, it's not as though mainstream religion quietly goes about it's business, now is it?

    I have to say CDfm, you must have written about 20 posts in this thread so far, and I still have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect nobody else does either.

    Dawkins, Harris etc only get spotlight, as you put it, because they are the ones who have come out and publicly expressed their views, and are merely attempting to open up the god/religion debate to a wider audience. To that end they have been successful.


    But you can see why someone might think that you are hostile.

    I am not openly hostile what I am saying is that atheism and science does not provide me with all the answers and I suspect others feel the same way too.It doesnt float my boat.OK.

    To label people not rational on the baisis of that or as I would say halfwits , plonkers or to ridicule someone elses beliefs or whatever is disrespectful or just plain hostile.

    I respect others beliefs and non-beliefs as may be the case- it doesnt bother me.

    In my work in business if I dont like someone or their attitude Im very straight up -what gets me about this kind of debate is its "sophistication" which if happened on a building site would get someone a slap or a severe dressing down(using words like Gosh and silly billy).

    Because Christians are not just priests etc there are builders, mechanics, manual labourers , barmen, fishermen, carpenters (cant forget them boys) etc. They may not like what you say or how you portray them. Thats the reality - no hiding from that.

    All I can say isnt it great that Im not Bishop Of Oxford or Mr D would get no cups of tea and cream buns - dont know what I would do with the welcome mat but it would be rational and scientific.


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