Do you believe in A God?

SV · 23-09-2008 2:42pm

oh ffs.

God doesn't exist. No god exists.

"god" was an idea thought up years ago for people to have something which explains something they can't.
load of bollocks really.

JC 2K3 · 23-09-2008 2:49pm

CDfm wrote: »

I am not openly hostile what I am saying is that atheism and science does not provide me with all the answers and I suspect others feel the same way too.

They don't provide me with any answers either, I just accept that we don't know everything rather than believing in something that sounds nice.

CDfm wrote: »

To label people not rational on the baisis of that or as I would say halfwits , plonkers or to ridicule someone elses beliefs or whatever is disrespectful or just plain hostile.

But it isn't rational. I don't mind you having an irrational belief if it makes you happy and doesn't infringe on my life in any way, and I certainly don't think of you as halfwits, plonkers or whatever, but what I do have a problem with would be labelling such beliefs as perfectly rational, because unless there's any hard evidence, they're not.

Also, just because someone has an irrational belief, doesn't necessarily mean they're generally irrational people, and it would be a misinterpretation to think that when someone's beliefs were called irrational, that they were being called irrational on the whole. Plenty of people are perfectly rational in every area of their lives besides their beliefs.

CDfm · 23-09-2008 2:55pm

it is rational to me.

What about ethics and philosophy what they are is ways to understand complicated issues using abstract thought.Whats wrong with that?

by evidence you mean scientific evidence.

If there wasnt abstract thought would you have the wheel.

By that model on available evidence the world would be still percieved as flat- because people were afraid to say different.

so to say that even Mr Ds thoughts on the subject are abstract is not such a great leap

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 23-09-2008 3:04pm

CDfm wrote: »

it is rational to me.

I think you just want to call it rational because you see 'irrational' as a pejorative term.

JC 2K3 · 23-09-2008 3:05pm

CDfm wrote: »

it is rational to me.

What about ethics and philosophy what they are is ways to understand complicated issues using abstract thought.Whats wrong with that?

If there wasnt abstract thought would you have the wheel.

Abstract thought is all well and good, but for it to be rational there has to be a logical progression from a premise to a conclusion.

While it's not irrational to come up with a hypothesis that we might be part of a closed system created by external factors we can't conceive, this cannot be proven, so believing in a benevolent God which you can't quite define that requests you follow rules written in scripture which you have no way of proving is authentic is quite a huge leap of faith without much rationalisation behind it.

jimbling · 23-09-2008 3:21pm

I don't believe in "God" in the usual sense.......

I do however believe in an hermaphrodite lady who plays ping pong with a giant squid up in the stars. Whoever wins the game gets to rule the universe for a period of time.

You see, it makes perfect sense. That's why you get absolutely horrible things happening sometimes and such wonderful amazing things other times. Hermaphrodite lady is nice and giant squidy is evil (his ink squirts cause mayhem in our otherwise glorious world)

I see no reason to believe this any less than any other god(s) out there.

JC 2K3 · 23-09-2008 3:30pm

jimbling wrote: »

hermaphrodite lady

Oxymoron.

jimbling · 23-09-2008 3:40pm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Oxymoron.

lmao, didn't think someone would be so pedantic as to pick that out... but if you must know, it comes from a song by Flight of the Concords....
When I was making up my God, the song popped into my head

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLJ5a6aJOb8

Zillah · 23-09-2008 4:12pm

CDfm wrote: »

it is rational to me.

Ahahahaha!

Apparently you don't even understand the meaning of the world rational. Awesome.

Wazdakka · 23-09-2008 4:45pm

God does exist,
But he is limited to containment within the fragile human mind,
He has been created, He has been modified, And he will be destroyed depending on our needs.

God does exist, But only because he doesn't.

ie, It is my opinion that mankind seems to require belief or faith in some higher power to explain things that it does not yet understand.
Perhaps its something pyscological, routed back to when we were children and our parents knew and understood everything we didnt.
God, in whatever form that its believed as, is used by people to answer the questions they cannot.
"Why are we here?"
"What happens when we die?"
God is even used to answer " How will we live?"

Looking back over history God or Gods have changed drastically based on these questions.
Rain and sunshine were required for crops to grow and the people to survive,
so they worshipped the sun and the moon, and developed gods responsible for rainfall.

As society developed more man needed law and order to control itself, All of a sudden belief and apeasment wasnt enough,
you had to live your entire life by the law of god.

God seems to be used as a stepping stone by man. Either a tool, a bridge, or an obsticle. Depending on your point of view.

A Tool that can be used for development and progression of a society or to stunt development and establish a strong power base.

A Bridge to be used as a "rest stop" until we posses a better understanding of what is going on around us.

An obsticle to those who wish to expand there knowledge, or further the development of the human race at any cost.

I feel sorry for those people out there that devote their entire life to the following of god.

But then again i think they feel sorry for me aswell...

CDfm · 23-09-2008 7:43pm

Zillah wrote: »

Ahahahaha!

Apparently you don't even understand the meaning of the world rational. Awesome.

I think the word rational should be banned from this thread of course we all know its a code word for atheist

Mr D must ave been really peaved that Ron L Hubbard beat him to it with the Church of Scientoligy - now thats a catchy title

CDfm · 23-09-2008 7:49pm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Oxymoron.

paradox and not so sure about tautoligy

JC 2K3 · 23-09-2008 8:21pm

CDfm wrote: »

paradox and not so sure about tautoligy

It is an oxymoron.... and I'm pretty sure it is a tautology.

Kipperhell · 23-09-2008 8:27pm

If you accept that there is a god you must wonder why it would create us?

Are we a pet?

The basic argument of a judao/christian god is that it wants your soul so you can join it in the after life.

Now I have an issue with the concept of the soul on a very straight forward level. If a person received a trauma to the head it can result in a radical personality change and/or memory loss. Effectively the person becomes a different person. With that considered true how does this work in to the concept of the soul? Is there now a second soul? Does the new person have to live with the sins of the original personality?

Given that we know many traditional religions citied an incorrect fact of how the world worked in a physical sense why believe they got any of the rest correct?One solution appears to ignore the science and this is that of extremists but that just means the others are doing it to a lesser extent.

herobear · 23-09-2008 8:32pm

i believe in the circle of life......

The Lion King is my bible

*cough* i voted no *cough*

shenanigans1982 · 23-09-2008 8:33pm

Probably mentioned this in one of the other threads but there is no god, any rational thought will eliminate any possibility of him existing you just won't want to believe it.....however.....................if common sense is wrong and he does exist he can't be fickle enough to punish you for not believing he exists so it's win win.

JC 2K3 · 23-09-2008 8:34pm

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

if common sense is wrong and he does exist he can't be fickle enough to punish you for not believing he exists so it's win win.

If common sense is wrong, you really can't predict how a god is going to act....

Elem · 23-09-2008 8:40pm

Religion is completely incorrect, but didn't Stephen Hawkins describe the universe as one massive blueprint?

And then shouldn’t we worship the sun? It's a key factor for our survival.

philologos · 23-09-2008 9:14pm

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'd agree that it's pointless to be faithful without the good works, but Luther's revelation was that it's faith alone that saves someone, not the good works also required by the church.

It'd be my mindset that not only is it pointless to be faithful without the good works, it's impossible to be faithful. From faith comes works, as a natural response to faith in Jesus. That's what the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles seemed to alude, phrases such as the last one I used concerning the fig tree, and the phrase "a wolf in a sheeps clothing" indicating false prophets and teachers who may seem entirely to be following the Gospel but have ill intent behind it.

turgon · 23-09-2008 9:26pm

I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible,
I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis,
I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles,
I just believe in me.

CDfm · 23-09-2008 9:35pm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Oxymoron.

Kipperhell wrote: »

If you accept that there is a god you must wonder why it would create us?

Are we a pet?

The basic argument of a judao/christian god is that it wants your soul so you can join it in the after life.

Now I have an issue with the concept of the soul on a very straight forward level. If a person received a trauma to the head it can result in a radical personality change and/or memory loss. Effectively the person becomes a different person. With that considered true how does this work in to the concept of the soul? Is there now a second soul? Does the new person have to live with the sins of the original personality?

Given that we know many traditional religions citied an incorrect fact of how the world worked in a physical sense why believe they got any of the rest correct?One solution appears to ignore the science and this is that of extremists but that just means the others are doing it to a lesser extent.

You cannot nesscessarily assume god as interventionist cos that would be a pet.Of course you dont ignore science -science teachers maybe( I must make a list) -but not science.

IF you dont believe in God -well the death penalty is the maximum penalty. Where would you stand on that. I know the Christan Churches views -but have never heard an atheists viewpoint. Is there one?

philologos · 23-09-2008 9:46pm

CDfm wrote: »

You cannot nesscessarily assume god as interventionist cos that would be a pet.Of course you dont ignore science -science teachers maybe( I must make a list) -but not science.

IF you dont believe in God -well the death penalty is the maximum penalty. Where would you stand on that. I know the Christan Churches views -but have never heard an atheists viewpoint. Is there one?

Although it's important to clarify that Christian views on the death penalty differ considerably between the USA and elsewhere. A minority of Christians see the death penalty as legitimate.

JC 2K3 · 23-09-2008 9:46pm

Atheism isn't a collective belief system with collective views on things. Lack of belief in a God is the only thing that unites us.

I'd personally oppose the death penalty.

Galvasean · 23-09-2008 10:03pm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Atheism isn't a collective belief system with collective views on things. Lack of belief in a God is the only thing that unites us.

Although many seem to be of the opinion that to be an atheist you must:
- believe in evolution unshakingly
- hate all things religious
- look out for #1 ie: might is right
- eat babies

Lockstep · 23-09-2008 10:38pm

Jakkass wrote: »

It'd be my mindset that not only is it pointless to be faithful without the good works, it's impossible to be faithful. From faith comes works, as a natural response to faith in Jesus. That's what the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles seemed to alude, phrases such as the last one I used concerning the fig tree, and the phrase "a wolf in a sheeps clothing" indicating false prophets and teachers who may seem entirely to be following the Gospel but have ill intent behind it.

Thing is, people often differ on what good works is:
Giving to the church for example.

Luther's point was: no matter how many good works you do, itdoesn't matter. YOur faith paves the way.

Tar.Aldarion · 24-09-2008 2:32am

Wazdakka wrote: »

God does exist,
But he is limited to containment within the fragile human mind,
He has been created, He has been modified, And he will be destroyed depending on our needs.

God does exist, But only because he doesn't.

ie, It is my opinion that mankind seems to require belief or faith in some higher power to explain things that it does not yet understand.
Perhaps its something pyscological, routed back to when we were children and our parents knew and understood everything we didnt.
God, in whatever form that its believed as, is used by people to answer the questions they cannot.
"Why are we here?"
"What happens when we die?"
God is even used to answer " How will we live?"

Looking back over history God or Gods have changed drastically based on these questions.
Rain and sunshine were required for crops to grow and the people to survive,
so they worshipped the sun and the moon, and developed gods responsible for rainfall.

As society developed more man needed law and order to control itself, All of a sudden belief and apeasment wasnt enough,
you had to live your entire life by the law of god.

God seems to be used as a stepping stone by man. Either a tool, a bridge, or an obsticle. Depending on your point of view.

A Tool that can be used for development and progression of a society or to stunt development and establish a strong power base.

A Bridge to be used as a "rest stop" until we posses a better understanding of what is going on around us.

An obsticle to those who wish to expand there knowledge, or further the development of the human race at any cost.

I feel sorry for those people out there that devote their entire life to the following of god.

But then again i think they feel sorry for me aswell...

It can be put shorter.
People do not change to suit their god, they change their god to suit them.

Zillah · 24-09-2008 8:41am

Jakkass wrote: »

A minority of Christians see the death penalty as legitimate.

Which is odd considering that the Bible specifically calls for the death penalty in numerous places.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 24-09-2008 11:57am

and let's not forget, God has murdered more innocent children than Osama bin laden has hairs on his face.

aidan24326 · 24-09-2008 12:22pm

CDfm wrote: »

IF you dont believe in God -well the death penalty is the maximum penalty. Where would you stand on that. I know the Christan Churches views -but have never heard an atheists viewpoint. Is there one?

Personally I don't agree with the death penalty at all, not in any circumstance.

Jakkass wrote: »

Although it's important to clarify that Christian views on the death penalty differ considerably between the USA and elsewhere. A minority of Christians see the death penalty as legitimate.

It's also interesting that the US states that would have the highest concentration of devout christians are also the ones who execute the most people, and have the most prisoners on death row. But seen as the bible very much condones the death penalty maybe we shouldn't be too surprised by that. Killing someone is apparently a very christian thing to do. Nice.

CDfm · 24-09-2008 12:44pm

Zillah wrote: »

Which is odd considering that the Bible specifically calls for the death penalty in numerous places.

a simple moral question

Churches often view it with reference to the alternatives and likely danger or harm to others -so it can be justified for the common good.

From what I see the Catholic Church does protest where it feels it might either bring influence to bear or to point out injustice its not totally opposed to it -so there is not a total ban the position is more complex than that.

In the USA where you have lots of different churches and denominations -the view can vary from congregation to congregation. Some churches like Baptist are autonomous and do not have a central hierarchical structure. Therfore the christian view is very diverse.

Hannibal Lecter (fictional) would have fitted this category.

I am against it in general but I know there are certain individuals and crimes that Id have no problem at all executing or sending to a dungeon.None -and Im mainstream.

Do you believe in A God?

Comments