Do you believe in A God?

Daithi McGee

sunstar wrote: »

a few years ago a woman i know had a tumor, and was due to get operated on.she went to a healer who lay his hands on the tumor.when she went beck to the hospital the tumor was gone.the doctors could give no medical explanation for this whatsoever.this healer regulary gets visions of god and has preformed miracles.

someone try explain this.

I'll have a bash at that one.

All is Explained

See what I did there?

:pac:

:pac:

Blazer

Jesus Loves You wrote: »

I did ask that we not confuse God and Religion.

But then what is a God.
If I went back 500years in the past or 1000 years with today's technology I'd appear as a God. But I'm not.
Same if we discovered aliens did exist and was considerable more advanced than us, would we look on them as gods?

Separating God & Religious is really only saying then that God is just a more advanced species and nothing more.

djpbarry

sunstar wrote: »

a few years ago a woman i know had a tumor, and was due to get operated on.she went to a healer who lay his hands on the tumor.when she went beck to the hospital the tumor was gone.the doctors could give no medical explanation for this whatsoever.

You'll have to forgive me, but I don't take at face value everything I read on the internet.

CDfm wrote: »

Another example of unethical scientists scamming.Publishing unchecked articles in supposedly rigorously checked scientific journals.

He should be in jail for the scam he pulled and the damage he caused to people and the health children but the scientific community is self policing and protects its own.

I will guess you will tell us now theres no evidence. Anther scientific cover up.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what you're ranting about? As far as I am aware, the source of his funding is under investigation. Anyway, this is going OT.

10goto20

Dave! wrote: »

Way to ignore the issue of 'the burden of proof', ie. you provide evidence for the claim, and people attempt to refute it. It doesn't work that everyone else attempts to disprove the claim and if they can't, then it must be true.

Exactly. There's no evidence that fairies or Santa Claus don't exist. In fact, depnding on who you ask you could say there's plenty of "evidence" that they exist. "Evidence" in the same respect as religious "evidence".

mise_me_fein

kryogen wrote: »

Dont believe

"Going to war over religion is kinda like having a fight over who's imaginary friend is better"

good tax free business though

Nobody goes to war over religion really. Like you said it's about control and culture and some people want to impose their culture on others.....the culture usually has it's roots in religion. Some of the traditions of religion are good and some aren't.

You shoudn't be so arrogant on how the world is and how you've figured it out. A lot of people hold dear they way they've been brought up and some of what you say is a bit much.

KnifeWRENCH

Mena wrote: »

Ah here we go. :rolleyes:

I don't know what the big yellow ball in the sky is... Must be a higher power.
I don't know what those small pricks ( ) of light in the night sky are, must be a higher power.
I don't know I don't know I don't...

If more people had thought like this we'd still be stuck in the stone ages. If you don't understand something, find out! Don't just write it off to some higher power

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said: let's not use science at all, just put everything to a higher power :rolleyes:
I love science: I'm studying Physics at college. But I do not for one second believe that we will ever be able to explain everything that happens on the universe.

To answer JC 2K3, I have no idea how a higher power could come about - if I could answer that question I'd be hailed as a philosophical/religious maverick. Blind faith is all I have to rely on - it's not perfect but it's good enough for me.

As I said previously, I am a firm believer in the afterlife (and that's not just "fear of death", dlofnep) And I do honestly believe that the things we can never know here we will discover in the afterlife.

You can all call me ignorant, naive, deluded, whatever the hell you want. If I'm wrong and there's no afterlife or higher power, well I won't care because I'll be dead and no longer exist! :P

That's pretty much all I have to say. Let the insults commence!

10goto20

mise_me_fein wrote: »

You shoudn't be so arrogant on how the world is and how you've figured it out. A lot of people hold dear they way they've been brought up and some of what you say is a bit much.

Religious people are the arrogant ones. Scientists are fully aware of how little we know. Its religious people who think they have it all figured out and are so arrogant about it that they don't even need facts or evidence.

sunstar

Daithi McGee wrote: »

I'll have a bash at that one.

All is Explained

See what I did there?

:pac:

:pac:

em no sorry i dont understand?

Dades

sunstar wrote: »

em no sorry i dont understand?

It must have been a higher power, so!

Sherifu

No.

Dave!

square_igloo wrote: »

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said: let's not use science at all, just put everything to a higher power :rolleyes:
I love science: I'm studying Physics at college. But I do not for one second believe that we will ever be able to explain everything that happens on the universe.

To answer JC 2K3, I have no idea how a higher power could come about - if I could answer that question I'd be hailed as a philosophical/religious maverick. Blind faith is all I have to rely on - it's not perfect but it's good enough for me.

As I said previously, I am a firm believer in the afterlife (and that's not just "fear of death", dlofnep) And I do honestly believe that the things we can never know here we will discover in the afterlife.

You can all call me ignorant, naive, deluded, whatever the hell you want. If I'm wrong and there's no afterlife or higher power, well I won't care because I'll be dead and no longer exist! :P

That's pretty much all I have to say. Let the insults commence!

UR SH*T!!!

CDfm

djpbarry wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me, but I don't take at face value everything I read on the internet.
To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what you're ranting about? As far as I am aware, the source of his funding is under investigation. Anyway, this is going OT.

SCientists with big Egos want to play God.

What I am saying is that whatever Wakefields motivation was the scientific community has done a cover-up.The likes of Richard Dawkins are into Pop Science. When it comes to something like disproving and prosecuting a charlatan who is one of their own they conduct an ahem "unbiased and thorough" investigation.WE are so ethical and scientific we cant find the evidence

I had forgoten about Wakefield until I read your post and it makes a point on how unethical scientists can be.Thats not a rant-its a question of fact.

Richard Dawkins and Jade Goody are in the same game.

Except scientists wont admit it.

Dades

CDfm wrote: »

Richard Dawkins and Jade Goody are in the same game.

Except scientists wont admit it.

Dawkins is a scientist first and foremost. He has a list of honours and awards longer than your arm. Just because he's decided in his later years to go on a bit of a crusade (no pun intended) doesn't mean he's a media whore with no qualifications. You might as well lump Stephen Hawking in there too, as the average pleb on the street knows his name too.

And there's no way he'd get his kebab out on national TV either.

10goto20

CDfm wrote: »

SCientists with big Egos want to play God.

What I am saying is that whatever Wakefields motivation was the scientific community has done a cover-up.The likes of Richard Dawkins are into Pop Science. When it comes to something like disproving and prosecuting a charlatan who is one of their own they conduct an ahem "unbiased and thorough" investigation.WE are so ethical and scientific we cant find the evidence

I had forgoten about Wakefield until I read your post and it makes a point on how unethical scientists can be.Thats not a rant-its a question of fact.

Richard Dawkins and Jade Goody are in the same game.

Except scientists wont admit it.

Thats mad Ted.

Prof.Badass

square_igloo wrote: »

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said: let's not use science at all, just put everything to a higher power :rolleyes:
I love science: I'm studying Physics at college. But I do not for one second believe that we will ever be able to explain everything that happens on the universe.

To answer JC 2K3, I have no idea how a higher power could come about - if I could answer that question I'd be hailed as a philosophical/religious maverick. Blind faith is all I have to rely on - it's not perfect but it's good enough for me.

As I said previously, I am a firm believer in the afterlife (and that's not just "fear of death", dlofnep) And I do honestly believe that the things we can never know here we will discover in the afterlife.

You can all call me ignorant, naive, deluded, whatever the hell you want. If I'm wrong and there's no afterlife or higher power, well I won't care because I'll be dead and no longer exist! :P

That's pretty much all I have to say. Let the insults commence!

why would you believe in something that you can't prove, that's just silly!

CDfm

10goto20 wrote: »

Thats mad Ted.

Would complain about this to the mod but hes got a God Delusion(pun intended)

Anyway being insulted by an atheist is well- whatcha gonna do excommunicate me:cool:

JC 2K3

sunstar wrote: »

a few years ago a woman i know had a tumor, and was due to get operated on.she went to a healer who lay his hands on the tumor.when she went beck to the hospital the tumor was gone.the doctors could give no medical explanation for this whatsoever.this healer regulary gets visions of god and has preformed miracles.

someone try explain this.

-Initial misdiagnosis
-Placebo
-Coincidence
-Doctors unfamiliar with such rapid healing, despite the fact it could be medically possible

And if this is true, why isn't it used instead of medicine? Why hasn't it happened thousands of times? Why do some people get healed miraculously, whereas millions more die in horrific conditions of war and poverty every day? Why has a miracle never been properly scientifically documented?


Belief in God, miracles and "higher powers" is probably the strangest thing about humanity. I think what it highlights is the huge differences in psychology and mindsets of different individuals. I can't fathom having the mindset of a believer. I suppose some people strive to think about and understand everything and others are happy to submit to what seems like a nice idea and not have to think about much.
I suppose it's a bit like the Leaving Cert student who makes a big effort to understand everything about the subject they're studying and the one who rote learns the course and regurgitates it on the day. They both get the same result and the same course, the same way the atheist and the theist are both as happy as one another, but some would question the latter student's approach, and the former student might feel slightly cheated. Others would say that the LC isn't important, and it's simply getting the course that counts. However, if in later life the latter student starts to feel strongly about something they've never tried to understand fully, and gains support to the extent of laws being based on a misunderstanding, then there's a problem.
So basically, what I'm saying is that passive theism is fine, although it may slightly irritate me, but if you start basing real life, important decisions on this theism, then I have a real problem with this.

10goto20

CDfm wrote: »

Would complain about this to the mod but hes got a God Delusion(pun intended)

Anyway being insulted by an atheist is well- whatcha gonna do excommunicate me:cool:

Jeez you're easily offended. No offence intended, apologies for that.

Dades

CDfm wrote: »

Would complain about this to the mod but hes got a God Delusion(pun intended)

Anyway being insulted by an atheist is well- whatcha gonna do excommunicate me:cool:

Complain about what? Which mod? What insult?

Does not compute...

JC 2K3

square_igloo wrote: »

To answer JC 2K3, I have no idea how a higher power could come about - if I could answer that question I'd be hailed as a philosophical/religious maverick. Blind faith is all I have to rely on - it's not perfect but it's good enough for me.

But, and this isn't supposed to be insulting, I'm just very curious about beliefs like yours, how can you derive any comfort from such a stance? I mean, I can't fathom how you can get anything out of such a belief. There's not a whole lot of difference between believing a higher power, who you have no idea how it came about, created the universe and acknowledging you have no idea how the universe came about. I struggle to understand what exactly you have blind faith in and why?

CDfm

Dades wrote: »

Complain about what? Which mod? What insult?

Does not compute...

:eek::eek::eek: its the Bishop Brennan of the Boards

CDfm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

-Initial misdiagnosis
-Placebo
-Coincidence
-Doctors unfamiliar with such rapid healing, despite the fact it could be medically possible

And if this is true, why isn't it used instead of medicine? Why hasn't it happened thousands of times? Why do some people get healed miraculously, whereas millions more die in horrific conditions of war and poverty every day? Why has a miracle never been properly scientifically documented?


Belief in God, miracles and "higher powers" is probably the strangest thing about humanity. I think what it highlights is the huge differences in psychology and mindsets of different individuals. I can't fathom having the mindset of a believer. I suppose some people strive to think about and understand everything and others are happy to submit to what seems like a nice idea and not have to think about much.
I suppose it's a bit like the Leaving Cert student who makes a big effort to understand everything about the subject they're studying and the one who rote learns the course and regurgitates it on the day. They both get the same result and the same course, the same way the atheist and the theist are both as happy as one another, but some would question the latter student's approach, and the former student might feel slightly cheated. Others would say that the LC isn't important, and it's simply getting the course that counts. However, if in later life the latter student starts to feel strongly about something they've never tried to understand fully, and gains support to the extent of laws being based on a misunderstanding, then there's a problem.
So basically, what I'm saying is that passive theism is fine, although it may slightly irritate me, but if you start basing real life, important decisions on this theism, then I have a real problem with this.

I believe we have a Devils Advocate here - thats one for the books - Hello Father if its the miracle you are here about you better talk to the nun first

The Catholic church investigate claims of miracles along the lines you describe and a belief in God is not all about miracles- man is responsible for a lot of his own situations as an individual and a race and has free choice and the means to change them.

toiletduck

sunstar wrote: »

a few years ago a woman i know had a tumor, and was due to get operated on.she went to a healer who lay his hands on the tumor.when she went beck to the hospital the tumor was gone.the doctors could give no medical explanation for this whatsoever.this healer regulary gets visions of god and has preformed miracles.

someone try explain this.

<insert atheist response along lines of "God only seems to heal things which could have happened anyways.... He never regrows a persons lost limb...>

<eat lunch>
<doss til clocking out>

aidan24326

square_igloo wrote: »

Not just grass and rocks - every electron and quark in the entirity of the universe. Science cannot explain everything, and there is a limit to the knowledge of mankind. One of the reasons why I believe in a higher power is because it accounts for everything that we cannot understand.

We don't understand it so let's just say god did it. You do realise that if humans had stuck with that approach we'd understand nothing, and would still be living in mud huts. We don't know what the limit of science and human understanding is. How you can you know what amazing inventions and discoveries will happen in the future? Stuff we can't even imagine right now.

God cannot be proven to exist or to not exist - it's down to each individual person if they believe or not

So how can you believe in something that is by definition not disprovable? It makes no sense. You're 'believing' in something which is entirely made up.

The Scientist wrote: »

Sure there is.
There's a whole lot of evidence to prove that a God exists also

There is? I think you might be getting a bit confused about what 'evidence' actually is.

Billions of people around the World have a faith in a higher power.
Since the dawning of age, inhabitants of this Earth have believed in a higher power, whether it was worshiping the Sun or a farmyard animal ,there was always at least some recognition that life as we no it 'didn't just happen'.

Maybe it did 'just happen' though? That's what the current evidence seems to indicate.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

It's not open minded to not believe in God in my opinion.

To say God does not exist in some ways is more stupid than to say God does exist.

There aren't really any grounds to disprove a God exists.

That is total nonsense. Just reread what have you written and have a think about it.

As for being open-minded, Richard Dawkins once said "Be open minded, but not so open minded that your brain falls out". In other words, it's great to be open minded but you've got to have the bullsh1t filter switched on too.

sunstar wrote: »

a few years ago a woman i know had a tumor, and was due to get operated on.she went to a healer who lay his hands on the tumor.when she went beck to the hospital the tumor was gone.the doctors could give no medical explanation for this whatsoever.this healer regulary gets visions of god and has preformed miracles.

someone try explain this.

It pains me to read stuff like this. The tumour in this case could have healed by placebo effect, it could have gone into spontaneous remission, maybe it was going to heal anyway. All far more likely explanations than this 'healer' guy having magic powers.

As for healers having apparent successes in curing people, you must remember that there's an important psychological effect where people 'remember the hits and forget the misses', to steal from Carl Sagan. An apparent 'cure' will be trumpeted and people will talk about it with amazement. On the contrary little will be said about the other sick people who went to said healer and didn't get better. In the cases where people do get better it's probably placebo effect or just coincidence. Nobody has ever demonstrated otherwise.

CDfm wrote: »

Richard Dawkins and Jade Goody are in the same game.

Dear god/allah/thor/zeus, this thread is just getting silly now. What in the name of all the gods have Dawkins and Jade Goody got in common?

One is an airhead z-list celebrity, the other is a first-rate scientist who has apparently got up people's noses now because he's been brave enough to come out and call a spade a spade.

10goto20

Sums it up nicely

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Mena

10goto20 wrote: »

Sums it up nicely

I think the most important aspect of this is, for the sake of humanity, we need to become pirates. Fast. Who's with me?

The data speaks for itself:

"As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature."

http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif

Mena

The Scientist wrote: »

Well people who believe in God outlive atheists for one.

Can you back that up? For the third time in this thread I have to call bulls**t.

And as one of the 62%, I've never used a church, and never will.

SoWatchaWant

You might as well believe in god, if you don't believe, and there is one, it's "oh ****" and eternal damnation.

If not, no big deal, you're too busy rotting to care.

Mena

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

You might as well believe in god, if you don't believe, and there is one, it's "oh ****" and eternal damnation.

If not, no big deal, you're too busy rotting to care.

Pascals Wager: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

Worst argument for anything, ever. Just which god are you going to choose to believe in? There are hundreds out there... What if you chose wrong?

/sigh