Need advise

la79

Hi,

I'll try not make this to long....:eek:

I got a kitten a while back, it was for my daughter, it was a rescue kitten and from the time we got the kitten, it was very playful and friendly, it is now about 13/14 weeks old, and for the last two weeks all it wants is to be outside.
I have everything for it, and brought it for a full check up at the vet. Oh and found out I had a male cat...not what I originally thought.
The thing is I find the cat very smelly, and cant seem to get the smell out from downstairs in the house, it sleeps in the dining room, I change the tray all the time, and the vet said male cats tend to be. The worst thing is I am terrible with smells etc, now I am not monica out of friends but I am a bit of a clean freak.
Last night the cat slept outside, he went for a wander, and wasnt around when I opened the door, but I knew he would go into the shed, as thats where I do find him some days. I have to say I was happy when he was fine staying outside...

Ok I am going on here a bit, what I would basically like advise on, do you think he would be ok outside?? I feel kind of bad, but I am happier when the litter tray and stuff are outside, I didnt think things through when I got him. The other big issue is, my daughter annoys the cat a lot, now she is a lot better than at first.

should I maybe consider finding it another home??

Sharpshooter

So you have left him out to wander?
Yes l think you should find a safer home for him and l would advise against getting another cat.
lts a dangerous world out there for a fully grown cat never mind a kitten.

kerrysgold

A tom cat needs to be neutered. You can get him neutered when he is 4 months old (16 wks)

a tom cat if left entire will smell, spray everywhere and want to wander off to find a female so he needs to be neutered.

a cat is better off kept indoors but let outside while supervised or make him a covered run.

sadly it sounds like the decison to get a cat wasn't a very well thought out one.

miss no stars

Leaving a cat outside, especially a male one, will tend to make it feral. Keep the poor creature inside. I don't agree that cats should be left inside only and only outside when supervised. We've a lovely natured cat that was a housecat until spaying and since then has been allowed out by herself. She goes off for an adventure or two, explores a bit then comes back to check someone's in. She gets a cuddle and maybe a little tidbit and off she goes again. She'll come in for a while around 4 and then after dinner go out until about 8. She's in then for the evening (barring emergencies) and will happily sit and cuddle whoever is there. Cats should be allowed outside to climb trees, run around and stalk insects, play and burn off energy. Especially young cats. It's not natural for them to be inside the whole time!

Next, once he's old enough, get him neutered. This should, as others have said, reduce the smell.

And then, love him and cherish him. You've been blessed with a beautiful little kitten that will love you back. A cat is not like a dog, they're not always as affectionate as quickly so when the cat gets excited to see you (and then tries to hide it - they hate to be seen to be displaying emotion!) or makes his own way onto your lap in the evening, just think how lucky you are to have the love of a beautiful little kitten.

If you can't love him and accept him for what he is, you don't deserve him. It's not a lot to ask, really. Neuter, feed and love him. And protect him!


edit: forgot to mention, if the cat wants to be out all of a sudden that's a sure sign that he has hit puberty! It's also possible that as well as a load of hormones in his system, there's also a female in heat somewhere. Off to the vet with him! Get him checked to see if he's ready for neutering.

Glowing

la79 wrote: »

The other big issue is, my daughter annoys the cat a lot, now she is a lot better than at first.

How old is she? Why not sit down with her and teach her how to take care of him properly. Can't be any fun for the poor thing.

And seconded, you need to have him neutered.

PurplePrincess

With regard to the smell, are you sure he hasn't weed somewhere? I had a similiar problem till I discovered one of the kittens had weed in his bed.
I use vinegar to wash up around where the litter tray is as it really does get rid of the smell.
Most definitely get him neutered, you're doing him, yourself and all the female cats a big favour in the long run.

lostinnappies

your cat is spraying, nutering will calm it down considerably, but even neutered cats will spray sometimes. If you are using a cleaner which has a strong smell to it or amonia he will be more likly to do it.

Cats do very well for themselves outside, they learn very quickly to avoid roads and loud noises. He should be fine outside. try leaving him out for only a few hours at a time to begin with, but i would have him neutered before letting him out. Other wise he might not come back, or get another cat pregnant and will be more prone to fighting.

The Sweeper

lostinnappies wrote: »

Cats do very well for themselves outside, they learn very quickly to avoid roads and loud noises.

...presuming they survive their first encounter with the road, or with whatever is making a loud noise.

I've posted this before on boards - 12 months, three cats, a one-acre property, backing onto a 12 acre paddock, fronting onto a nature reserve across a secondary, non-busy road. Property to the left, 1.5 acres. Property to the right, 2 acres.

Sound like paradise?

12 months, three cats, $2,750 in vetinary bills. And I never, ever left them out overnight, or even when it was starting to get dark. They had just a few hours out each day, and they managed to get into all that trouble all on their ownio.

I used to think it was "fair" to allow cats outside too, until I realised just how stressful it is to deal with wired jaws, upper respiratory tract infections, stitches, elizabethan collars, torn cruciate ligaments and confinement for weeks due to injury and illness.

galah

you must be doing something wrong ;-)

Granted, I've lost two cats to the streets (one disappeared while a friend was minding them, the other probably got hit by a car), but the third one is out all the time and has been for four years, and we never had a problem with anything. They never got into trouble, and we never had to fork out excessive vet bills, apart from the annual vaccinations. And we live in the city center...

It's the old discussion - in vs out - but I think, unless a cat is a trained housecat from day one and has no desire to go out, that it's unfair to keep them in all the time - mine started to bite the window handles and scratch the windows to get out. It's sad to have lost our little one to a car (although that's only what we think happened - she might have had a brain hemhorrage - she just collapsed, no visible signs of impact, also no signs of poisoning), but at least I'm secure in the knowledge she had a good life while she was around - with lots of freedom to roam around and do 'catular' things.

la79

hi,

thx for all your opinions..

I did have it at the vet last week, and it is not ready to be netured yet, he is due back for his next set of needles in two weeks, so I will ask then.

He was in last night and was crying, he hates being confined, so I let him out early this morning, he basically jumps around the back garden for a bit, and then goes into my shed, and he doesnt mind that. I think because he was a rescued kitten he is used to being outdoors and does not like being inside all the time.

I don't think I should feel like a bad person for this, any time I am around the cat is with me, and up in my lap getting loads of attention, and the same from my other family members. he even sleeps at the end of my bed somedays. I just want a solution for the smell really, and then I would be happy enough.
I did check everywhere and now that I have the tray outside more, the smell has got less and less.

thx again.

The Sweeper

galah wrote:

Granted, I've lost two cats to the streets (one disappeared while a friend was minding them, the other probably got hit by a car), but the third one is out all the time and has been for four years, and we never had a problem with anything. They never got into trouble, and we never had to fork out excessive vet bills, apart from the annual vaccinations. And we live in the city center...

Congratulations on your 33% success rate to date in keeping your pets alive. It's truly a winning argument for allowing your cat to roam.

galah wrote:

It's the old discussion - in vs out - but I think, unless a cat is a trained housecat from day one and has no desire to go out, that it's unfair to keep them in all the time - mine started to bite the window handles and scratch the windows to get out. It's sad to have lost our little one to a car (although that's only what we think happened - she might have had a brain hemhorrage - she just collapsed, no visible signs of impact, also no signs of poisoning), but at least I'm secure in the knowledge she had a good life while she was around - with lots of freedom to roam around and do 'catular' things.

This freedom to roam argument - if it's unfair to keep cats inside, then I say this:

It's unfair to keep dogs restricted. A dog's natural instinct is to be a pack animal with a strong prey drive. I've decided people just aren't an appropriate replacement for a pack of other dogs (after all, the dog can't indulge his natural tendancy towards bottom sniffing or mounting with people really, can he?). Dogs should be allowed to roam free, form packs with other dogs and roam around the roads doing 'dogular' things. They should be permitted to chase and bring down livestock and anything else unfortunate enough to get in their way, because that's just them being dogs.

Codswallop eh? But it's a similar theory to the one that people apply to the domestic cat. It's like being one of those people who allows their miniature breed dog savage everyone that comes near it, just because they think its behaviour is funny because it's too small to do the sort of damage that similar behaviour from a spaniel or a labrador would do.

carwash_2006

unless a cat is a trained housecat from day one and has no desire to go out, that it's unfair to keep them in all the time

I have taken in 2 cats from colonies that were what some would consider feral when they first came here, they have almost less inclination to be out in the cat run than any of the other cats. I have a third that also came from a colony but thought people were brilliant from the start, she hardly goes out at all. The 2 feral cats now love their rubs, I wouldn't try and cuddly them, but once you start petting them you are stuck there till they are done with you.

If the house is interesting enough and you make an effort to stimulate them with interactive toys they seem to do perfectly well inside. In my experience, a lot of kittens will look to get outside where there are interesting things to chase, but if they are discouraged from going out and given plenty of interaction inside it soon wears off.

I don't see why people are starting to realise that dogs cannot be allowed to roam - especially in very built up areas - but it is still considered ok for cats to wander all over and in particular toilet all over other peoples property. Particularly before they are neutered and spayed. What if your kitten disappears before the op is done, then you have the potential start of yet another colony, not to mention the potential for more spread of disease among cats.

BlackCat2008

Ia79 first of all it takes time for a feral or ill feed animal to adjust to good food there for it smells until the bad diet has left it's system ard the new diet has corrected it's system and this can take weeks. So just give it time for that part to settle down.

Second of all it sounds like he's maturing fast so maybe talk to your vet about having him done a little earlier than six months males not done carry an oder as well as spray, stop using bleach they always pee on that, vinegar is best and no disinfectants as these are toxic to cats but you can use Te tree oil a drop or two in water(make up a bottle to have) will also get ride of the smell (I stand to be corrected on the Te tree oil but as it's natural it's not toxic as far as I'm aware and mine are just fine.

Cats are routine animals so set one that suits you and make sure he is in before dark, and like the rest I recommend you only let him out after he is neutered or he will stray. I could be in and out the door a few times before they come in, once is not enough you have to give them time to hear you and climb out of the tree.

In V's out I have to say if I lived surrounded by big fields and no roads yes but only still during the day, mine stopped going out at all 11/2 yrs ago because of traffic and neighbours (just one) but none the less they are fine and have adjusted and will soon have a big run all to them selfs. He'll get over been kept in for a while better than having to listen to your daughter if he is found dead on the road or never returns.

galah

I don't think we'll ever come to an agreement in this in vs out discussion - but at least we agree that cats should be neutered/spayed before they're let out...

lostinnappies

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

...presuming they survive their first encounter with the road, or with whatever is making a loud noise.

I've posted this before on boards - 12 months, three cats, a one-acre property, backing onto a 12 acre paddock, fronting onto a nature reserve across a secondary, non-busy road. Property to the left, 1.5 acres. Property to the right, 2 acres.

Sound like paradise?

12 months, three cats, $2,750 in vetinary bills.

Three cats, Reading UK, on a busy road, small back garden and out all day and all night total vet bills (other then worming and vacc) £0. there for 6 years.

la79

galah wrote: »

I don't think we'll ever come to an agreement in this in vs out discussion - but at least we agree that cats should be neutered/spayed before they're let out...

I agree, thats the most sensible thing said. Everyone has a different experience and has their pros and cons.
The cat was in last night, and out most of the day, and didnt seem to mind. He loves coming in for his grub and some love, and then wanders off.
But I will get in neutered asap...

thx

The Sweeper

lostinnappies wrote: »

Three cats, Reading UK, on a busy road, small back garden and out all day and all night total vet bills (other then worming and vacc) £0. there for 6 years.

And I hope they're there for six more. But if one of them doesn't come home one night, and then not for a second, and then not for a third night, if I asked you where's your cat, the only answer you could possibly give me is "I have no idea."

Where is your pet? The animal you owned, registered and microchipped (I assume), had neutered (I hope), fed and cared for?

You have no idea.

Your only argument is that you had it for six years, and it was allowed outside, so you believe it had a pleasant existence where it could roam, crap in your neighbours' gardens, occasionally outrun a dog and dodge an airgun pellet, catch native birds and fight with other cats - do cat things, in other words, and you believe that offsets its disappearance and presumably its death.

Especially because you haven't had to spend its last moments with it - because of course you don't know where it is, so you have no idea if its died in a ditch at the side of the road, or if some young men with little better to do have captured it, tied it up, shoved fireworks up its arse and burned it alive, or if some of your neighbours dogs have caught it and ripped it apart.

So you'll just decide you gave it six good years, and then hopefully some elderly neighbour adopted it eh?

lostinnappies

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

And I hope they're there for six more. But if one of them doesn't come home one night, and then not for a second, and then not for a third night, if I asked you where's your cat, the only answer you could possibly give me is "I have no idea."

Where is your pet? The animal you owned, registered and microchipped (I assume), had neutered (I hope), fed and cared for?

You have no idea.

Your only argument is that you had it for six years, and it was allowed outside, so you believe it had a pleasant existence where it could roam, crap in your neighbours' gardens, occasionally outrun a dog and dodge an airgun pellet, catch native birds and fight with other cats - do cat things, in other words, and you believe that offsets its disappearance and presumably its death.

Especially because you haven't had to spend its last moments with it - because of course you don't know where it is, so you have no idea if its died in a ditch at the side of the road, or if some young men with little better to do have captured it, tied it up, shoved fireworks up its arse and burned it alive, or if some of your neighbours dogs have caught it and ripped it apart.

So you'll just decide you gave it six good years, and then hopefully some elderly neighbour adopted it eh?

Seriously, you keep your cats cooped up all day and all night, what kind of existance is that. Its like being in prison. I think that in itself is cruelty.

My cats come when ever i call them. They usually meow in the distance to tell me they are coming for fear that they wouldnt get the yummy treats. They dont wander too far (neutered) and are more interested in playing with flys then getting into trouble.

The Sweeper

Yes, and so do mine come when they're called. And one evening at five o'clock - because I used to let them out during the day to play in the front garden of the property - only two of them came back. I was out with a torch until 11pm looking for the last one, and out again at 3am until 5am because I couldn't sleep.

He's microchipped, so the following morning I got a call from the vet at 9am to say they had him - he'd been hit by a car. The person who hit him stopped and picked him up, and kept him at theirs all night until the vet opened in the morning. That person returned him to me, and I took him straight back to the vet myself because his bottom jaw was broken and he'd bitten through his tongue in two places.

How did he get hit by a car? No idea. Up to then he had never wandered, always stayed close to the house - and there are about five cars per hour past this property.

It is not cruel to keep your cats indoors as long as you provide everything they need - something to eat, something to drink, something to scratch, somewhere to sleep, a litter tray and something to play with. Ping pong balls are an excellent cat toy.

I was lucky in that I got my guy back - but even then, he spent from 5pm until 10am the following morning in a cage, with people he didn't know, with a broken jaw and a lacerated tongue (see since he's mine I would have had him straight to animal A&E the same evening, but they weren't going to shell out that expense). Then he spent three days at the vet having his jaw wiring operation. Then he spent six weeks with a wired mouth.

Our plan when we move house is to organise an enclosed outdoor cat run or cat proof fence for our what will be four cats, so they can have access to the garden but nowhere outside the garden. I can tell you now, the three current cats are far from miserable being inside. They're extremely social and interested and into everything. They chase each other up and down the house and over their cat trees (and the rest of the furniture).

Even with danger-proofed outdoor access, I still can't let my guy out in the hottest part of the day, because he has a pink nose and is a skin cancer risk, so it's more even than just incidents that can befall them.

I hope your cats last another six years, and more, I really do. But I hope you never, ever have to be out in the middle of the night looking for one of your animals when it hasn't come back.

lostinnappies

Im sorry to hear that, i really am. The out door enclosure sounds like a good idea. But to be honest (to me and me alone cos i cant speek for others) keeping cats indoors is not the healthiest thing for them. Cats also eat grass, it helps them remove fur balls etc. It keeps them fit and healthy, they also like humans need vitamin D from the sunshine which you cant get through a glass window. Sun screan on the tip of your cats nose will block the harmful uv light.

I suppose cats are very much like children, you want to keep them safe and happy but eventualy you have to let them go and live their lives. Even if that means you run the risk of them hurting themsleves. Lord knows i wanted to keep my kids right next to me, inside the house never to let them get hurt.... but that would not be in their best interests. Nor would it be for a cat (imo).

The Sweeper

Yeah, we will go back and forth on this. I have two pots of cat grass, specifically for chewing, inside, at floor level.

Here's an interesting article on the same lines: http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/a/indooroutdoor.htm

Perhaps in general the "cats outdoors" preconceived notion is so strong that people have to have their pets injured or killed before they come around to the indoor-only way of thinking.

Sharpshooter

Great link , full of useful information.
l am going to try to get the materials for the outdoor enclosure , it looks like it would be fairly simple to put one up, ( with a bit of help ).:)

carwash_2006

On the topics of runs and building them, here is a picture of ours



I would highly recommend bringing the frame for the wire up over the top as well, you will need posts inside the run to support this. If you are able to use chain link over the top too it will mean you can have much more in the way of high climbing things inside the run. Chain link is a must for the wire, anything lighter could potentially get holes in it big enough for a cat to squeeze through.

Ours has loads of kennels and hidey places in it now, we only had one cat when that picture was taken.

Sharpshooter

Your's looks fairly straight forward carwash , l presume l would have to get wood that was weather treated ?.
lf l could get one of those out the back it would be such a relief, not only for the cats but for me as it would mean no more cat poops thrown at my back door by my neighbour.
l have one side of the garden along the wall dug and its a mix of sand and clay, our cats use it all the time, but there is a Tom that frequently visits and poops in the neighbours garden. Unfortunately because we have cats they are getting blamed and so the offending material ends up thrown at the back door .
Thanks so much for the picture.:)

The Sweeper

Man I know it can't be nice to have cat crap thrown at your back door, but it just goes to show how much people HATE having other people's cats in their garden. (Seriously, imagine how enraged you have to be to scoop up cat crap and peg it at someone's back door?!)

We can't figure out with our back garden whether or not to try and cat proof the whole fence or just put a run in. Cat-proofing the fence is something we may need to discuss with our neighbours, because it'll be visible for them. We'll have a six-foot colorbond fence around the garden anyway, but we'll need to cap that with wire that leans inwards - imagine the right branch of a Y. The trick is to use wire that's too dense to get through, but too soft to take the weight of a cat. It'll probably be visible for about a foot over the top of the fence, but it'll lean into our garden and I plan to put up some climbers, so perhaps they won't be too bothered by it.

There are pros and cons - if we cat-proof the whole garden, then they can be out and about with us while we're out there. It also means we're not allocating one section of the garden permanently to the cats. I mean, we have a stretch up the side of the house, behind the garage, that's 5m wide x 15 m long, and we could put an enormous run in for the cats, but the problem is that they'll still want to be out of that because they just want to be near us when we're doing stuff.

Currently I can bring my hit-by-a-car boy Eric outside with me if I'm planting in the garden, and he stays within about 10 feet of me and comes back in with me when I come back in, but I can't do that with our big tabby.

Tipping the scales at 5.75kg and able to get both front paws easily on a kitchen countertop while his rear feet are still on the ground, Big Frankie acquires instant selective deafness as soon as he gets outside, and makes straight for the nature reserve. The day we stopped letting him outside was the day I watched him use up one of his nine lives dodging through the wheels of a B-Double quarry truck on the road. I want the outdoor cat space for him more than any of the others - he has both the ability to thoroughly enjoy the outside world (the others aren't bothered), and the lack of sense that means it will kill him.

Sharpshooter

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

Man I know it can't be nice to have cat crap thrown at your back door, but it just goes to show how much people HATE having other people's cats in their garden. (Seriously, imagine how enraged you have to be to scoop up cat crap and peg it at someone's back door?!)

Yes, l can see what you are saying , but it is not my cat's poop he is throwing at my back door.
The offending poop belongs to the Tom who visits his garden on a daily basis.
My cats are all spayed, so l don't see that they should be blamed for the Tom's indiscretion.
He knows this yet he choose's to show his displeasure by lobbing it at my back door.

The Sweeper

Well a spayed cat will still crap in another back garden - they just might not go spraying your neighbour's back door with urine, for instance. But if your neighbour and you both know for definite that it's not your cat, it is certainly unreasonable for him to be chucking cat crap at your house.

I'm not saying he's justified, I'm just saying it goes to show that cats should be confined because there are two kinds of people in the world: cat lovers, and cat haters.

Sharpshooter

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

Well a spayed cat will still crap in another back garden - they just might not go spraying your neighbour's back door with urine, for instance. But if your neighbour and you both know for definite that it's not your cat, it is certainly unreasonable for him to be chucking cat crap at your house.

I'm not saying he's justified, I'm just saying it goes to show that cats should be confined because there are two kinds of people in the world: cat lovers, and cat haters.

l guess what l was trying to say was they dont crap in his garden, but the Tom does ( hence me stating that they are spayed and therefore are not an attraction for the Tom ).
So l am annoyed at having to scoop up cat poop that lands at my back door.
When my cats are not the one's leaving it in his garden.