Do we want an all-Ireland league?

SectionF

Platinum One have pulled their proposal for an all-island league, because of opposition from the blazers, but is the idea still a good one? Would you be more likely to go to live football if it included clubs from all over Ireland?

Dolph Starbeam

I'd go less often

I would think it could only be good, put more teams challenging for the title, bring the standard up etc.

smackbunnybaby

I don't go and still wouldn't

i would love an all irish league. especially one that had a number of divisions. maybe 3/4 divisons if possible.

but i feel that it would be marred by violence week in week out.

EDIT: I would go as often as i do now.

stovelid

I don't go and still wouldn't

Voted yes, but really it would make little difference for me, as I go anyway.

To be honest though, the lack of support for both leagues needs to be addressed before you try to combine them.

Alan Smith

I don't go and still wouldn't

I go every week anyway

Nalz

I don't go and still wouldn't

stovelid wrote: »

the lack of support for both leagues needs to be addressed before you try to combine them.

and how we gonna do that!?

CiaranC

I don't go and still wouldn't

MOG7 wrote: »

I would think it could only be good, put more teams challenging for the title, bring the standard up etc.

Dont see how it would bring the standard up. Only Linfield could compete with current LOI big 4. And anyway, they say they have no interest so its dead in the water without them.

stovelid

I don't go and still wouldn't

Trilla wrote: »

and how we gonna do that!?

Ban television and radio in Ireland for a trial period of 20 years.

Neil3030

Just checked the results after I voted and to my mortifying horror I found that me and Mr. Alan agree on something!!!

<rushes to shower>

Unclean..... UNCLEAN!!!

whatawaster

the only way more people are going to go to more matches is if a) the standard of football and competition increases and b) if facilities improve.
The all-ireland league might help achieve a), but b) will still be a problem.

I was in Australia a couple of years ago and went to a Sydney FC game. The standard, to be honest, wasn't a whole lot higher than the Eircom League. But they had a lovely, compact stadium, perfect playing surface etc. People take it more seriously because of this.

Overall, i think the All-Ireland league is a must. A ten team premier league, all professional (is this feasible?). I also think sensible wage caps are needed - too many clubs (Drogheda for one) are becoming successful on unsustainable budgets. I nearly threw up when i heard how much Olly Cahill was earning (can't remember how much), considering the little or no effort he puts in.

Nalz

I don't go and still wouldn't

Neil3030 wrote: »

I found that me and Mr. Alan agree on something!!!

well good for you!

gixerfixer

Would be good if they had an anglo league with the scots in there iswell....runs for cover:P

smackbunnybaby

I don't go and still wouldn't

gixerfixer wrote: »

Would be good if they had an anglo league with the scots in there iswell....runs for cover:P

a kind of Magners league, like in the rugby. Let Celtic and Rangers go to England...

Third_Echelon

I'd go less often

Neither League will want to give up their European spots.... With one merged league there would be less spots available...

Teams from the North would hardly get into Europe as a result. Merging would however be the best idea I think.. I don't think either league can stand on their own feet for much longer.

Facilities will also have to be upgraded to attract people (especially families) to games...

gixerfixer

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

a kind of Magners league, like in the rugby. Let Celtic and Rangers go to England...

No let them enter iswell. scottish football is dying as is and thet need a leg up as much as we do. Yeah people will come on and go on about Bohs,Cork,Pats etc...having history and all that there but they need to see the reality of the 21st century and open up to new ideas. FFS sake even the GAA crowd borrow us Croke park

CiaranC

I don't go and still wouldn't

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Facilities will also have to be upgraded to attract people (especially families) to games...

How are clubs supposed to do this when they have no income?

This is all pie in the sky nonsense. Merging with Scotland :rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

merging the two leagues would be better for football on the Island as a whole, particularly as us Irish (north and south) can no longer rely on the game in England to develop our young talent. I think the concentration of resources would give us the ability to play at a higher level. However many individual clubs stand a lot to lose, more so in north it seems. So i find it very hard to see this ever occurring.

but for any All-Ireland league to be effective i think you'd have to merge both the FAI and the IFA, as really the resources in the game will have to be very tightly managed early on. Two independent associations with a shareholding in each league could lead to a conflict of interests...

Ironically, this nearly happened before back in the late 1920s apparently. but it all fell apart because the IFA wanted complete control of the selection for the national team.

Third_Echelon

I'd go less often

CiaranC wrote: »

How are clubs supposed to do this when they have no income?

This is all pie in the sky nonsense. Merging with Scotland :rolleyes:

Same old sob story. If you need income you have to generate it. Easier said than done of course, but if this is the attitude among Irish club owners then the league is doomed to fail..........

Drogheda have great plans for a new stadium, which looks like is facing trouble at the moment due to planning issues, but at least these guys have a bit of ambition...

gixerfixer

CiaranC wrote: »

How are clubs supposed to do this when they have no income?

This is all pie in the sky nonsense. Merging with Scotland :rolleyes:

Why is it "Pie in the sky"...Bottom line is the standard of LOI and Scottish league is not what it should be..Reason being they dont have the money to bring in the talent. No talent = no new fans. Kids would rather sit in front of the TV and watch Liverpool,Chelsea,Real madrid etc.. and who can blame them.

eagle eye

If you want to have a really successful league in this country you have to look at the Super League model in Rugby League in England.

Fanny Cradock

Assuming the quality rose, why not!

Now, I'm not interested in having a go at the current set-up (though I think they could market and organise the thing sooooo much more professionally) but having an all-Ireland league cold be a step in the direction. I don't see why we couldn't have something analogous to the Scottish league (without the dominance of the Old Firm clubs) - sure we even have the sectarian hatred.

stovelid

I don't go and still wouldn't

I'm a bit puzzled by the amount of people who would go to more games if it was an All-Ireland League. The same barstooler criticisms of LOI apply to the NI teams, even more so, barring Linfield. Why would co-joining the two make it any more palatable for you.

Of course, the AIL is probably just another item on the I'll-go-if list: As in, I'll go if Bohs beat Madrid, Tolka is upgraded to a 5-star UEFA stadium, and we can get to see Dungannon Swifts in the flesh. That is: when hell freezes over.

SantryRed

I don't go and still wouldn't

eagle eye wrote: »

If you want to have a really successful league in this country you have to look at the Super League model in Rugby League in England.

So Franchise football?

Can see it now.

The Bohemian Bears versus the Linfield Lions.

CiaranC

I don't go and still wouldn't

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Same old sob story. If you need income you have to generate it. Easier said than done of course, but if this is the attitude among Irish club owners then the league is doomed to fail..........

Im tired of listening to people expecting us to pull Bernabeu style stadiums and samba football out of our arses. The only way Irish football will improve is if Irish football fans take up the mantle and support it like they do in other parts of the world. E.g. never gonna happen.

_blank_

I don't go and still wouldn't

Irish football fans DO support Irish football.

Irish Sports Entertainment fans go to Croke Park four or five times a year, and fly to England once a month.

...oh and they sometimes watch a bit of boxing, once every four years.

Ronan|Raven

I don't go and still wouldn't

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Same old sob story. If you need income you have to generate it. Easier said than done of course, but if this is the attitude among Irish club owners then the league is doomed to fail..........

Drogheda have great plans for a new stadium, which looks like is facing trouble at the moment due to planning issues, but at least these guys have a bit of ambition...

Longford have one of the best grounds around in my biased opinion, we have a good stand and seats all around yet people still stay away. Three thousand went to our last big day out 500 to our next league outing (this has been repeated over the years with us)

maybe the Longford like the Irish public are a shower of bandwagon jumping Kunts? Who will sit in Longford every saturday night bitching how we lost without ever going to the ground. ****ing tossers.

_blank_

I don't go and still wouldn't

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Longford have one of the best grounds around in my biased opinion, we have a good stand and seats all around yet people still stay away.

Are you mad Ted?

One covered Stand, the rest uncovered, and it's ALWAYS raining and bloody cold in the flansiro, in my experience.

I don't balme people for staying away, tbqfh.

:pac::pac:

Ronan|Raven

I don't go and still wouldn't

Des wrote: »

Are you mad Ted?

One covered Stand, the rest uncovered, and it's ALWAYS raining and bloody cold in the flansiro, in my experience.

I don't balme people for staying away, tbqfh.

:pac::pac:

It only rains on shels And it is ours! Oh and it doesnt raiin Iriish Summer.... (bring back winter footie plz... **** bright day time matches..)

Davidth88

I'd go less often

I was interested to watch Prime Time last night which did quite a big article about this subject.

Coming from London, I think part of the reason that people here don't support Football ( and I am carefully calling it that ) , is because they have the tradition of supporting/playing GAA.

If you think about it GAA , rightly or wrongly has been seen as a source of ' Irishness' and Football ( yes I am carefully using that word again ) , is seen as a game from ' the invaders'.

I would love to see an All Ireland league be set up and prosper , it would be great for everyone, and indeed if it really prospered the national side. It must be upsetting that if you play football well to make money you have to leave the country, then you watch as thousands of your countrymen cross the Irish sea to watch you every week !

I am now expecting a backlash from people saying ' oh I go to GAA and football ', but in all honesty you are in a minority.

I think the rugby thing is interesting , could a similar sysem be applied , after all don't the four professional teams make money ?

Oh, By the way I went to a number of games in the League of Ireland, and have been to a few grounds , including Cork/Cobh/Athlone/Dundalk, but none of the Dublin clubs

Sorry I forgot to tell you why I use Football , not soccer, I hate the word soccer, its Football , as in the F A I , or F A , or MU F C, I see no S in those titles

Davidth88

I'd go less often

Ok, I have been re-reading my last post , just want to make a couple of points clear .

I am not anti GAA, the sports are fine and to a great extent the way it pulls communities together is admirable.

I think part of the reason that people here don't support Football

I meant to say , their local teams, I see a lot of football ' supporters' here wondering around in jerseys from English/Scottish teams , it's a shame I don't see more local jerseys being worn

chopperbyrne

Merging the leagues is a bad idea at the moment.

What the league needs is rté to show several live matches each week to generate interest and try to increase attendances.

Although there would be lots of people content to watch it from their nice warm front room too.

Bit of a catch 22 situation.

djpbarry

I don't go and still wouldn't

whatawaster wrote: »

the only way more people are going to go to more matches is if a) the standard of football and competition increases...

Just curious - how high does the standard have to be before people go to the games? For example, based on results in Europe over the past 5 years or so, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in the standard between the League of Ireland and the Swedish league. Yet, attendances in the Swedish league are about 6 times higher than they are here.

whatawaster wrote: »

b) if facilities improve.

Clubs are doing all they can to achieve this, but it's a catch 22 situation; people won't attend because they feel the facilities are poor (many are unrealistic in their expectations in my opinion), but many clubs can only do so much to improve the facilities with the low gate receipts they receive.

whatawaster wrote: »

The all-ireland league might help achieve a)

How? The Setanta Cup has shown that Linfield are the only side from the North that can even come close to competing with the top teams in the Eircom League. Why would the standard suddenly take a leap forward?

whatawaster wrote: »

But they had a lovely, compact stadium, perfect playing surface etc.

In fairness, many of the pitches in the Eircom League are pretty damn good.

whatawaster wrote: »

I also think sensible wage caps are needed...

Done.

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Drogheda have great plans for a new stadium, which looks like is facing trouble at the moment due to planning issues, but at least these guys have a bit of ambition...

No other club in the league has plans for a new stadium or stadium development?

My own personal opinion on the proposed AIL is that it is unrealistic to expect it to magically solve all the problems that football faces on this island. I fail to see why attendances will suddenly sky-rocket when the plan is, essentially, to put Linfield and Glentoran into the Eircom Premier; essentially, an expanded Setanta Cup heavily weighted toward the Republic.

Third_Echelon

I'd go less often

CiaranC wrote: »

Im tired of listening to people expecting us to pull Bernabeu style stadiums and samba football out of our arses. The only way Irish football will improve is if Irish football fans take up the mantle and support it like they do in other parts of the world. E.g. never gonna happen.

I'm not asking for "Bernabeu style stadiums and samba football". I'm saying that for LOI clubs to attract attention and get people going to games, they are going to have to do something to get people's attention... be this better facilities, better interaction with their community, whatever... Sitting on their arse and moaning like you are is going to keep LOI football in the same position as it is now...

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Longford have one of the best grounds around in my biased opinion, we have a good stand and seats all around yet people still stay away. Three thousand went to our last big day out 500 to our next league outing (this has been repeated over the years with us)

maybe the Longford like the Irish public are a shower of bandwagon jumping Kunts? Who will sit in Longford every saturday night bitching how we lost without ever going to the ground. ****ing tossers.

I played at the flan siro when it first opened when I played u16, u18 level. Great pitch. The only problem is the covering of stands as one of the other posters mentioned... I don't even think the main stand was covered then. Apart from that, clubs of Longford's size should have this level of facility..

I was at Shels vs Dundalk game a couple of months ago and tolka is a disgrace at the moment (on the away fans section)... Seats are minging. Moss, dirt, bird****, everything on the stand at the side where the away fans sit and behind the goal... Wouldn't take much work to get a powerhose and a brush out would it? I know Shels are broke, but come on!

djpbarry wrote: »

Just curious - how high does the standard have to be before people go to the games? For example, based on results in Europe over the past 5 years or so, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in the standard between the League of Ireland and the Swedish league. Yet, attendances in the Swedish league are about 6 times higher than they are here.
Clubs are doing all they can to achieve this, but it's a catch 22 situation; people won't attend because they feel the facilities are poor (many are unrealistic in their expectations in my opinion), but many clubs can only do so much to improve the facilities with the low gate receipts they receive.

Sweden has a population of near 10 million....

djpbarry

I don't go and still wouldn't

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Sweden has a population of near 10 million....

About 9.2 million actually. So, a roughly 2-fold higher population means 6-fold higher average attendances? How does that work?

Third_Echelon

I'd go less often

djpbarry wrote: »

About 9.2 million actually. So, a roughly 2-fold higher population means 6-fold higher average attendances? How does that work?

ok seeing we are actually checking facts and figures, i think the answer is quite simple...

They have a bigger population than Ireland.

Stockholm metropolitan area has a population of 2 million people. That is about half of Ireland's population. Stockholm has 3 major teams, AIK, Djurgardens and Hammarby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm

That leaves a population of approx 7 million for the rest of the country's top teams. Cities such as Gothenburg has 2 teams IFK and GAIS and has a population in the metropolitan area of 900,000.... Malmo's Metropolitan area is 600,000....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malm%C3%B6

Dublin on the other hand, with a population of over 1 million has 6 teams (Bohs, Pats, Shels, UCD, Rovers and Sporting Fingal). In the 'greater Dublin commuter belt' (pop. 1.6 million) we also have Dundalk, Drogheda, Bray and Kildare county. Thats a lot of teams in a concentrated area...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Dublin_Area

Outside of that the rest of the teams in Ireland are in Major towns and Cities where they have their 'hardcore' support. There is a lot of Ireland that doesn't have a LOI team within a close distance to them....

I grew up in Meath. Who should I support? I don't live anywhere near Drogheda... Who should someone from Carlow, Kerry, Laois, Offaly, etc support?

I follow Dundalk because I went to college there, but living and working in Dublin and most of Dundalk's home games being on a Thursday night, it is pretty difficult to get to games.

I reckon as a lot of the population in Dublin is... not from Dublin, but living and working there and have no affiliation or desire to support teams from Dublin. How much of the Dublin football fraternity does that leave for the 6 teams?

SectionF

I'd go less often

A lot of stuff so far concerning the ins and outs of other issues confronting the game. All valid, but what about getting back to AIL?

Even if it only means Glentoran (for) and Linfield (currently opposed), that would mean that fans would have the prospect of two more big clubs.

Part of the problem with LoI is that there are too many games with minor teams who are either a) easily beaten or b) when faced with much stronger opposition just sit back and produce football that is painful to watch. That has been especially apparent this season, as a gap has opened up in the Premier Division.

Just having two more proper contenders would shake things up enormously.

smashey

I lapsed for a few years and recently returned to LOI and really enjoy it and I would certainly be for an All-Ireland league.

stovelid

I don't go and still wouldn't

@Third_Echelon, all your population arguments are valid except that they still don't address the main problem of low support: English football.

For example, in Dublin, if you (very) roughly combine the average home attendances (over the season) for Bohs, Rovers, Pat's and Shels, you would be looking at, what, 6-7000? In other words, still a small fraction of the 'football fanatics' in the greater Dublin area.

On the other hand, if Liverpool or united based themselves in Dublin, you would have no problem pulling huge crowds.

On topic: an AIL would certainly be more interesting. Some extra rivalries /needle fixtures would be good.

noodler

If it would increase our UEFA coefficient then that'd be a plus.

podge018

I don't go and still wouldn't

Davidth88 wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to tell you why I use Football , not soccer, I hate the word soccer, its Football , as in the F A I , or F A , or MU F C, I see no S in those titles

People who get hung up about the use of the word soccer need their priorities checked. It's a nickname for the proper term - Association Football, primarily used in countries that have their own national game also called football i.e. Aussie Rules football, American football, Gaelic football.

djpbarry

I don't go and still wouldn't

Third_Echelon wrote: »

ok seeing we are actually checking facts and figures, i think the answer is quite simple...

They have a bigger population than Ireland.

Stockholm metropolitan area has a population of 2 million people. That is about half of Ireland's population. Stockholm has 3 major teams, AIK, Djurgardens and Hammarby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm

That leaves a population of approx 7 million for the rest of the country's top teams. Cities such as Gothenburg has 2 teams IFK and GAIS and has a population in the metropolitan area of 900,000.... Malmo's Metropolitan area is 600,000....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malm%C3%B6

Valid points, but Helisingborg has a population of 91,400, yet the average attendance at Helsiingborg IF was 12,000 in 2007 (13% of the population). Borås, home to IF Elfsborg, has a population of just 63,000, yet Elfsborg's average attendance last year was 11,867 (19%). Even in little Trelleborg, with a population of just 25,600, Trelleborgs FF had an average gate of 3,458 in 2007 (14%).

Compare that to Ireland's best supported club, Cork City. Cork has a population of just over 190,000 according to the 2006 census. Yet Cork's average attendance in 2007 was just 3,350 (just under 2%).

Third_Echelon

I'd go less often

stovelid wrote: »

@Third_Echelon, all your population arguments are valid except that they still don't address the main problem of low support: English football.

For example, in Dublin, if you (very) roughly combine the average home attendances (over the season) for Bohs, Rovers, Pat's and Shels, you would be looking at, what, 6-7000? In other words, still a small fraction of the 'football fanatics' in the greater Dublin area.

On the other hand, if Liverpool or united based themselves in Dublin, you would have no problem pulling huge crowds.

On topic: an AIL would certainly be more interesting. Some extra rivalries /needle fixtures would be good.

True. The premier league in England has a bigger draw. Lets face it. It is better to watch and for a lot of people that is the bottom line..

The AIL would indeed create a lot more rivalries and interesting games, which I reckon would get crowds more interested.

djpbarry wrote: »

Valid points, but Helisingborg has a population of 91,400, yet the average attendance at Helsiingborg IF was 12,000 in 2007 (13% of the population). Borås, home to IF Elfsborg, has a population of just 63,000, yet Elfsborg's average attendance last year was 11,867 (19%). Even in little Trelleborg, with a population of just 25,600, Trelleborgs FF had an average gate of 3,458 in 2007 (14%).

Compare that to Ireland's best supported club, Cork City. Cork has a population of just over 190,000 according to the 2006 census. Yet Cork's average attendance in 2007 was just 3,350 (just under 2%).

Football is really the only supported sport in Sweden though. Ireland has the Gaelic games and rugby, both of which are massive in Cork (Cork football and hurling, Munster rugby...) Thomand Park gets great attendances for Munster games. Leinster Rugby also fills the stadium for most games..

A lot of teams for a small nation to support. Lets face it... Soccer in Ireland has a lot more competition than it does in other countries. Bigger nations such as England, France etc where Rugby and other games have massive support as well have the population to sustain this..

djpbarry

I don't go and still wouldn't

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Football is really the only supported sport in Sweden though.

Don't know about that; ice hockey is very popular in Sweden. Games from the Elitserien, or the Swedish Elite League, are aired nationally in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, and Norway.

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Soccer in Ireland has a lot more competition than it does in other countries. Bigger nations such as England, France etc where Rugby and other games have massive support as well have the population to sustain this..

Scotland?

I'm not dismissing your points by any means, but I'm just not sure it's as simple as that. Put it like this; if the English Premiership was in Ireland rather than England, the games would be packed every week. Imagine the demand for tickets if Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Celtic or whoever decided to play their home games in Dublin.

HalloweenJack

I don't go and still wouldn't

An All-Ireland league is the way to go but the logistics need to be hammered out. Euro places and the two separate associations are the main sticking points.

Nalz

I don't go and still wouldn't

HalloweenJack wrote: »

An All-Ireland league is the way to go but the logistics need to be hammered out. Euro places and the two separate associations are the main sticking points.

HOW ABOUT AN IRELAND OR AT LEAST A DUBLIN WHERE PEOPLE SUPPORT THERE OWN CLUBS TOO! SUPPORT - PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK THE WORD UP

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Dublin on the other hand, with a population of over 1 million has 6 teams (Bohs, Pats, Shels, UCD, Rovers and Sporting Fingal). In the 'greater Dublin commuter belt' (pop. 1.6 million) we also have Dundalk, Drogheda, Bray and Kildare county. Thats a lot of teams in a concentrated area...

There are far too many teams from Dublin. There really should only be Bohs and Rovers. Bray, Kildare, and Louth United would be acceptable because they're not strictly from Dublin.

djpbarry wrote: »

if the English Premiership was in Ireland rather than England, the games would be packed every week. Imagine the demand for tickets if Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Celtic or whoever decided to play their home games in Dublin.

Initially the demand would be huge from the locals. But soon they would get bored and just watch it on tv, and they wouldn't be able to afford to go to every game. Daytrippers from Britain and Asia would keep the demand reasonably high.

SectionF

I'd go less often

There are indeed too many teams in Dublin. The FAI permitting yet another Dublin team was sheer vandalism: either incredibly stupid or incredibly spiteful.

An AIL would cut the number, at least in the top tier. Hopefully, there would be no room for Sporting Franchise.

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

stovelid wrote: »

I'm a bit puzzled by the amount of people who would go to more games if it was an All-Ireland League. The same barstooler criticisms of LOI apply to the NI teams, even more so, barring Linfield. Why would co-joining the two make it any more palatable for you.

Of course, the AIL is probably just another item on the I'll-go-if list: As in, I'll go if Bohs beat Madrid, Tolka is upgraded to a 5-star UEFA stadium, and we can get to see Dungannon Swifts in the flesh. That is: when hell freezes over.

The AIL is not the solution to the problems in the LOI. Would the merger would result in higher attendances? Look at the Setanta Cup attendance figures and compare them to league games. Fans have voted with their feet.

_blank_

I don't go and still wouldn't

smashey wrote: »

I lapsed for a few years and recently returned to LOI and really enjoy it and I would certainly be for an All-Ireland league.

:eek::eek:

Harps or Derry?

Sherifu

I don't go and still wouldn't

Wouldn't make any difference to me going, i'd still go.

smashey

Des wrote: »

:eek::eek:

Harps or Derry?