Do we want an all-Ireland league?

djpbarry

I don't go and still wouldn't

Pure Cork wrote: »

There are far too many teams from Dublin. There really should only be Bohs and Rovers.

Yeah, but whadaya-gonna-do? There should really only be one team from Cork; City have shown that they are incapable of managing their finances properly. They should really leave it to Cobh to represent the county .

smashey wrote: »

Harps or Derry?

smashey

djpbarry wrote: »

Harps or Derry?

Institute.

stovelid

I don't go and still wouldn't

Pure Cork wrote: »

There are far too many teams from Dublin. There really should only be Bohs and Rovers.

In fairness, Shels and SPA have long histories, and it's a bit mean to say that they just shouldn't exist, especially given the relative youth of CCFC.

As for the single-team-per-city argument, somebody has already mentioned that gates of, what, 3000+ in a supposedly sports-mad city of Cork's size is a poor crowd.

The real problem is that enough football fans exist. They just don't support their local teams. And combining the league with another equally under-supported league won't address this in the long term.

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

djpbarry wrote: »

Yeah, but whadaya-gonna-do? There should really only be one team from Cork; City have shown that they are incapable of managing their finances properly. They should really leave it to Cobh to represent the county .

Ah yes, because Ramblers are financially healthy :rolleyes: As for us not managing our finances properly, or simply being financially healthy, the same can be said for Pats, Bohs, Drogs, Shels, Rovers (not now obviously), Galway, Sligo, Kildare, Kilkenny, Limerick FC, Dublin City, Harps, Ramblers, Waterford, etc. recently

stovelid wrote: »

In fairness, Shels and SPA have long histories, and it's a bit mean to say that they just shouldn't exist, especially given the relative youth of CCFC.

Harsh but fair. Minnows.

stovelid wrote: »

As for the single-team-per-city argument, somebody has already mentioned that gates of, what, 3000+ in a supposedly sports-mad city of Cork's size is a poor crowd.

Crowds are poor everywhere, not just in Cork. The fact that our average attendance is greater than the attendance for Bohs-Rovers derbies says it all really.

djpbarry

I don't go and still wouldn't

Pure Cork wrote: »

Ah yes, because Ramblers are financially healthy :rolleyes: As for us not managing our finances properly, or simply being financially healthy, the same can be said for Pats, Bohs, Drogs, Shels, Rovers (not now obviously), Galway, Sligo, Kildare, Kilkenny, Limerick FC, Dublin City, Harps, Ramblers, Waterford, etc. recently

Jaysus, I was only messin'.

Pure Cork wrote: »

Harsh but fair. Minnows.

How does it feel to trail the minnows of Inchicore by 12 points? They seem to have faired slightly better than "de mighty" Cork in Europe this season too .

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

djpbarry wrote: »

Jaysus, I was only messin'.
How does it feel to trail the minnows of Inchicore by 12 points? They seem to have faired slightly better than "de mighty" Cork in Europe this season too .

Not great tbh. Apparently Sadlier has admitted that what Pats are doing isn't sustainable. What they are doing will do more harm than good. The league is a joke because of it. As for Europe, we let ourselves down this year.

djpbarry

I don't go and still wouldn't

Pure Cork wrote: »

Apparently Sadlier has admitted that what Pats are doing isn't sustainable.

Same as everywhere else really; they're investing in the playing staff in the hope that it will draw in the punters and, to a lesser extent, the sponsors. Not working so far.

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

djpbarry wrote: »

Same as everywhere else really; they're investing in the playing staff in the hope that it will draw in the punters and, to a lesser extent, the sponsors. Not working so far.

Agreed. The LOI does itself no favours. The way clubs are being run is embarrassing.

stovelid

I don't go and still wouldn't

Pure Cork wrote: »

Crowds are poor everywhere, not just in Cork. The fact that our average attendance is greater than the attendance for Bohs-Rovers derbies says it all really.

LOL, I'm not knocking Cork (well not in this post), just saying that they have a small gate (by non-LOI standards) even though they are the only team in Cork.

If we had a hybrid Dublin team filling out, say Dalyer, with 7000 fans a game, the majority of football fans in the country would still be saying {insert barstooler excuse here} and opting for the PL.

SectionF

I'd go less often

stovelid wrote: »

If we had a hybrid Dublin team

God forbid. It might float Cork's frigate, but Dublin is bigger than that.

estebancambias

I don't go and still wouldn't

Benedict XVI,
Bubs101,
dancor,
DrMorphine,
Dublin's Finest,
evad_lhorg,
Fanny Cradock,
Jazzy,
JPA,
leninbenjamin,
MementoMori,
Mossy Monk,
Mr Alan,
Neil3030,
OPENROAD,
Savman,
ShoulderChip

what would it take for you to go watch professional football every week in your own backyard?
football fans? lol

i'm not exactly the most passionate Bohs fan, but jesus I will to go watch them play and get involved with the match banter, and go crazy when they score. I go because the quality is nice and I am able to see talented players like JP Kelly in action.

seriously how you can say you're a football fan yet reply with 'I don't go and still wouldn't?'

I guess though when a Stoke Liverpool thread gets more replies than a loi team in Europe, you sort of know what your dealing with.

Unearthly

estebancambias wrote: »

I guess though when a Stoke Liverpool thread gets more replies than a loi team in Europe, you sort of know what your dealing with.

Which you contributed to by posting in the Liverpool/Stoke topic and not the LOI team in Europe topic;)

estebancambias

I don't go and still wouldn't

I was banned for calling Pat Dolan a bad name.

Its good to have the talk about liverpool vs stoke because its also football, so just to clarify I'm not saying people shouldn't talk about aston villa, liverpool etc.

Nalz

I don't go and still wouldn't

estebancambias wrote: »

what would it take for you to go watch professional football every week in your own backyard?
football fans? lol.

I'm a former "wouldnt go to a LOI game" man until I moved to D15 and got myself to a few Bohs games. I love it to be honest, and the standard is nowhere near as bad as people make out.

I doubt however they'll even see this post (most won't). I got labelled a "born again shi'te" when making the above point before, just because 18 months ago I started going to games. I dont mind people posting in Liverpool/Man Utd forums and following the Premiership/La Liga etc, but lets get behind our own game too. It can be great going to live games supporting teams that represent our areas and our country...and in turn developing the game in this country as a whole.

SectionF

I'd go less often

Trilla wrote: »

I'm a former "wouldnt go to a LOI game" man

Me too. I haven't stopped supporting my English team, and I don't see why anyone should, especially if they have been following them since they were 10. I think an AIL would make it easier for people to make the move.

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

SectionF wrote: »

I think an AIL would make it easier for people to make the move.

Why?

SectionF

I'd go less often

Pure Cork wrote: »

Why?

As outlined further up the thread...

• More genuine, quality clubs
• Fewer minnows. (It's hard to get excited at the prospect of playing UCD)
• A less small-time feel to it
• A fresh start

oobydooby

SectionF wrote: »

[*]More genuine, quality clubs

No, the northern clubs are of a similar standard to the southern clubs.

[*]Fewer minnows. (It's hard to get excited at the prospect of playing UCD)

Personally I like watching UCD. They've no support so the atmosphere is bizarre but they have some good footballers and have always played nice football. Wouldn't get excited though, you're right.

[*]A less small-time feel to it

Look at the setanta cup. It's still small time.

[*]A fresh start

This is the only positive. But then why not redraw the whole thing? Soccer in Ireland does not have the community that GAA has or rugby. GAA fair enough, it's unique in the world but there are more soccer fans than rugby fans in Ireland yet you'd never guess it.

What about giving out free tickets to local clubs? Get kids involved. Parents will come along too. Money can be made on mars bars and crisps and club orange.

Give extra club kits/last year's gear to local pub teams. Get exposure from lads who might then bring their kids along.

See if the odd player would be willing to help out with training the local teams, in an official capacity. Promoting his club too. Maybe linking the club with a local school. Giving the school gear and coaches and getting a few kids involved in the club.

Same with youth clubs etc.

Give the girls' teams free tickets. Some grounds are sausage factories. I couldn't care less about that but it might help give the league more broad appeal.

My limited experiences of northern Irish football are very negative (and I don't mean the Brandywell here) and I don't see how an unwanted merger would help solve the LOI problems.

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

oobydooby wrote: »

No, the northern clubs are of a similar standard to the southern clubs

I agree with most of what you said, but northern clubs are worse than the LOI clubs. Only Linfield would really bring anything to the league. As I've said before, fans have voted with their feet at Setanta Cup matches. The only positive is rebranding it, but that's pointless unless it is marketed more than the current LOI.

bohsman

I don't go and still wouldn't

The Setanta Cup is a 4th competition run on Monday and Tuesday nights, it should have no bearing on how good or bad an AIL would be.

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

bohsman wrote: »

The Setanta Cup is a 4th competition run on Monday and Tuesday nights, it should have no bearing on how good or bad an AIL would be.

Why? The best four teams from the Irish league are involved. Look at how they perform in the competition and tell me they'd bring a lot to an AIL. Regardless of when the matches are played, there's no denying that the northern teams are not going to draw in the crowds.

SectionF

I'd go less often

Pure Cork wrote: »

Why? The best four teams from the Irish league are involved. Look at how they perform in the competition and tell me they'd bring a lot to an AIL. Regardless of when the matches are played, there's no denying that the northern teams are not going to draw in the crowds.

A lot of northern clubs are worse than the best southern ones. That certainly is not to say that they are worse across the board, and of course the opposite applies. Outside of Linfield, Glentoran, for one, would definitely add quality and weight. They would displace a UCD and ... I]fill in blank from eL Prem bottom-feeders[/I
Besides, the two leagues would combine to deliver more than the sum of their parts.
The Setanta Cup is not relevant. It's a sideshow, presented as a sideshow, with far too much weighting going north. A good idea, but a poor formula based on PC-ness rather than merit that is the opposite of everything an AIL should be.

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

SectionF wrote: »

A lot of northern clubs are worse than the best southern ones. That certainly is not to say that they are worse across the board, and of course the opposite applies. Outside of Linfield, Glentoran, for one, would definitely add quality and weight. They would displace a UCD and ... I]fill in blank from eL Prem bottom-feeders[/I
Besides, the two leagues would combine to deliver more than the sum of their parts.
The Setanta Cup is not relevant. It's a sideshow, presented as a sideshow, with far too much weighting going north. A good idea, but a poor formula based on PC-ness rather than merit that is the opposite of everything an AIL should be.

The likes of Linfield and Glens could compete, but beyond that... How can the AIL teams be based on merit? The scrapped proposal pushed for teams from Galway, Limerick and Waterford to be included. UCD are better than them, and better than a lot of northern teams too. UCD are in the Premier Division on merit, unfortunately. There are also too many Dublin clubs for an AIL.

SectionF

I'd go less often

Pure Cork wrote: »

The likes of Linfield and Glens could compete, but beyond that... How can the AIL teams be based on merit? The scrapped proposal pushed for teams from Galway, Limerick and Waterford to be included. UCD are better than them, and better than a lot of northern teams too. UCD are in the Premier Division on merit, unfortunately. There are also too many Dublin clubs for an AIL.

As I've said before, just two viable clubs coming in to take out two yo-yo outfits would be a huge improvement to the fixture list. Not sure about Waterford, but Galway have been playing some very good football of late. Limerick have US backing that could transform the club. And both obviously are potentially good geographic bases if they can build identity.

There are too many Dublin clubs, granted, and no one outside a few councillors needed Sporting Franchise, but there are not too many good Dublin clubs. That point of view is, I think, based on a skewed sense of scale of the game here. It's not the English Premiership. Just because Cork has put all its eggs in one basket doesn't mean Dublin should. If one were to go with that argument, then Cobh and Cork City should merge, and it would be the death knell for a host of clubs, not just in Dublin but in, say, Longford, Athlone, etc.


PS: has this poll been changed to anonymous voting, and if so why?

stovelid

I don't go and still wouldn't

SectionF wrote: »

PS: has this poll been changed to anonymous voting, and if so why?

It's back.

Should be stickied as a handy guide to who supports the league; who admits to not supporting the league, and who would support the league if only they would {insert_unlikely_to_ever_be_fulfilled_wish_here}.

SectionF

I'd go less often

stovelid wrote: »

It's back.

Oops! Seems it was never gone. Silly me.

Pure Cork

I go already and would attend the same number of matches

SectionF wrote: »

As I've said before, just two viable clubs coming in to take out two yo-yo outfits would be a huge improvement to the fixture list. Not sure about Waterford, but Galway have been playing some very good football of late. Limerick have US backing that could transform the club. And both obviously are potentially good geographic bases if they can build identity.

There are too many Dublin clubs, granted, and no one outside a few councillors needed Sporting Franchise, but there are not too many good Dublin clubs. That point of view is, I think, based on a skewed sense of scale of the game here. It's not the English Premiership. Just because Cork has put all its eggs in one basket doesn't mean Dublin should. If one were to go with that argument, then Cobh and Cork City should merge, and it would be the death knell for a host of clubs, not just in Dublin but in, say, Longford, Athlone, etc.


PS: has this poll been changed to anonymous voting, and if so why?

Glens would be midtable at best. So bringing in two decent clubs makes the whole thing worthwhile?

Galway are one team that would have to be included in an AIL, and you obviously think so. But you want things done on merit. UCD are better than Galway. What's the solution here?

I never said Dublin should "put all its eggs in one basket". Dublin is certainly capable of sustaining more than one club. Shams and Bohs, and maybe a third club are the only Dublin clubs worth having in an AIL in my opinion. But people wouldn't dare get rid of Shels or Pats. There's no point in having an AIL unless there is a massive restructuring.

djpbarry

I don't go and still wouldn't

SectionF wrote: »

There are too many Dublin clubs, granted, and no one outside a few councillors needed Sporting Franchise, but there are not too many good Dublin clubs. That point of view is, I think, based on a skewed sense of scale of the game here. It's not the English Premiership.

Just to expand on this point a little:

According to the 2006 census, the Dublin area has a population of about 1.19 million people. If just 2.5% of the population were to attend one of the 6 EL clubs in Dublin on a regular basis, the average gate of each of the 6 clubs would be about 5,000 per game (assuming an even distribution for the sake of argument), which would be sufficient to support full-time set-ups for the medium term.